General COVID-19 Talk #2, NHL Phase 2 begins early June Mod Warning post 1

[tny760]

mmm delicious union propaganda

i don't think there's any reason for schools to have in-person class (bare minimum) this semester, but holy f*** is that "research" paper a good way to bury your students under politics

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

mmm delicious union propaganda

i don't think there's any reason for schools to have in-person class (bare minimum) this semester, but holy f*** is that "research" paper a good way to bury your students under politics

Again, if that's your only takeaway from 10+ pages of the survey of current issues (example, why LA student demographics in particular are impacted) as well as safety proposals for resuming classes, you may as well be the author of the opposite editorial.

If asking for adequate PPE, training school nurses, accommodations for students with disabilities etc. is 'politics' then we're screwed anyway.

It's deliberately missing the forest for a couple of trees. Total distraction from what is important feedback. Totally--intentionally--buried the lede.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I teach moderate severe special education at a high school. My students are 18-22 years old. I have to go back four days a week 730-230 with a fifth day of social distance learning. My class has 15 students and 4 adults. Not sure I can even have everyone 6 feet apart in my room. Face mask all day for kids with special needs. Hands on responsibilities, busing, bathroom, etc. I’m 42, my staff is all 15 years older than me. My wife has an autoimmune disease. I won’t be able to have any contact with my widowed mother, even limited social distance. I caught everything this past year. I was out of days before the lockout because teachers catch everything. Haven’t been sick since locking down. Not everyone shares my lockdown views. Can’t control what others do or keep them out of my class. I’d prefer full online as difficult as it is. The issue with Corona is you don’t know how it will be when you get it. I tend to assume the worse when death is involved. Is society prepared for the death of teachers? Many are older with underline conditions.

I’m grateful for my job and have been blessed by its pay. I’ve been able to lock down. That has been a privilege others have not had. I still feel there is a safer alternative to risking peoples lives when cases are going back up and not down. Online education is temporary. Skills can be made back up. I do get the challenges facing working parents too.

Are you willing to lockdown without pay?

 

[tny760]

Again, if that's your only takeaway from 10+ pages of the survey of current issues (example, why LA student demographics in particular are impacted) as well as safety proposals for resuming classes, you may as well be the author of the opposite editorial.

If asking for adequate PPE, training school nurses, accommodations for students with disabilities etc. is 'politics' then we're screwed anyway.

It's deliberately missing the forest for a couple of trees. Total distraction from what is important feedback. Totally--intentionally--buried the lede.

that's not at all how i feel, but those asks/commentaries are things to save for another paper

they chose to mesh those 2 into the same conversation so i have the right to attack them for it. when the first paragraph contains "trump's rhetoric" all i can think of is that family guy sketch about lois running and saying nothing but "9/11" to get people cheering

it's all irrelevant because the press release from today says they're 100% distance learning so all's well anyway

 

[KINGS17]

Really, that was their takeaway?

Here's the full position paper:

UTLA recommends keeping LAUSD school campuses closed; refocus on robust distance learning practices for Fall | UTLA

The first ten pages are a summary of the situation, why teachers feel unsafe, proposals on how to deal with the situation on a school level, and suggestions that several levels of government could do to help based on the specifics of the community.

The above article takes two bullet points from that entire writeup and calls them demands and runs with it. Disgusting and shameful deflection of the main point.

The article also mentions--which we should all remember even though it feels like an eternity ago--that LA teachers were on strike just last year over almost these exact issues. They're basically rehashing 2019 PLUS coronavirus concerns. And here they are inviting attacks on educators in the name of partisan hackery. It's basically the "just open it all up" crowd from April but for schools instead of businesses, running with deliberate misunderstandings of the logistics and concerns to score some bullshit red elephant points.

I guess at least one thing is consistent, and that is society isn't listening to its teachers. I thought this time would be different after people saw what it was like when school was 'out' over the last few months, but I was foolish to think many levels of government and society would see them as anything but babysitters. Didn't think it was possible to imagine worse conditions for teachers, but here we are, not only trying to carefully open schools in a month, but forcefully attacking teachers for being hesistant. Absolute trash.

What do charter schools and defunding the police have to do with the safety of students, teachers, and school staff? The article raised a valid point.

Society isn't listening to the teacher unions. Big difference.

 

[Token]

We have spent the past 50 years in the US actively outsourcing the raising of our children, often enough to the lowest bidder.

Our public schools.

We have also systemically marginalized our teachers with low pay, lack of resources, overcrowding ...

Now we find ourselves trying to justify some kind of fix for an untenable situation, figuring ways to internalize what amount of illness, pain and suffering is acceptable as if we are collectively on some 19th century battlefield.

We are darn effed-up as a society.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What do charter schools and defunding the police have to do with the safety of students, teachers, and school staff? The article raised a valid point.

Society isn't listening to the teacher unions. Big difference.

The article raised a valid point--but to the complete exclusion of the more important stuff and with a misleading headline, hence burying the lede.

Obviously those are the most controversial measures, but that entire section focuses on redirecting funds to public education--which shouldn't be controversial and has been a conversation for a looooooooong time.

I don't agree with a big portion of it, but this is exactly the right time to be re-examining public policy WRT education. It was broken before all this--and now we're trying to shoulder them with the largest burden in the nation.

 

[KINGS17]

The article raised a valid point--but to the complete exclusion of the more important stuff and with a misleading headline, hence burying the lede.

Obviously those are the most controversial measures, but that entire section focuses on redirecting funds to public education--which shouldn't be controversial and has been a conversation for a looooooooong time.

I don't agree with a big portion of it, but this is exactly the right time to be re-examining public policy WRT education. It was broken before all this--and now we're trying to shoulder them with the largest burden in the nation.

Distance learning is not effective. If kids are not going to be in school, parents would be better off receiving the federal money allocated to public schools and spending it on small group tutors, etc. They could create their own mini-classrooms with other parents and hire the tutors. Their kids would get more out of it.

You're right those items have been issues for a long time, which is why it was inappropriate to include them in a conversation about reopening schools. Parents overwhelming favor charter schools. When are the teacher unions finally going to listen to their ultimate customers?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Distance learning is not effective. If kids are not going to be in school, parents would be better off receiving the federal money allocated to public schools and spending it on small group tutors, etc. They could create their own mini-classrooms with other parents and hire the tutors. Their kids would get more out of it.

You're right those items have been issues for a long time, which is why it was inappropriate to include them in a conversation about reopening schools. Parents overwhelming favor charter schools. When are the teacher unions finally going to listen to their ultimate customers?

So cut educational funding entirely--because distance learning with a qualified and credentialed teacher is--in your eyes--inferior to home schooling with random, uncredentialed tutors? I guess that's one approach.

And to the last point, I guess we've finally come to the ultimate cliff--the unending budgetary bludgeoning of public ed has finally led to people seeking other options. I'm not going to get on a soapbox about charter schools other than to say the reasons (or I should say perceptions) surveys favor (the idea of, because reality is different) charter schools at large is because they symbolize/represent what people are looking for in public schools. Further defunding public schools is like...jeez man. I don't even know where to go from there other than to say what a time to talk about stripping money from education.

With respect to charter schools right now--their biggest problems and criticisms would only be exacerbated by Covid; and that is the criticism of lack of service to POC and students with disabilities. Which brings us full circle to that union piece. With LA's demographics, shifting funds away from the communities most affected by both educational changes in general and disproportionately affected by coronavirus is catastrophic.

We are not going to see eye to eye on this one and that's fine, but whether you think public ed as a whole is bloated with administration or inefficient or whatever, now's not really the time to be putting further strain on their resources.

 

[Bandit]

It shouldn’t surprise anyone that after decades of getting f***ed in the ass that teachers are looking for any bargaining chip to get the attention of the system. Endless budget cuts year after year, more students, longer hours, salaries closer to Target assistant manager than professional athlete on an ELC... yeah it’s a real wonder.

I mean NBD right, it’s just the education of our children and the fate of our future as a species.

And no, I am not a teacher nor do I have any teachers in my family.

 

[LAKings88]

Are you willing to lockdown without pay?

No, but I am willing to accept an alternative method of teaching that mitigates the risk. I have contemplated finding new work after teaching moderate/severe SPED for ten years. Burnout rate is three years by the way. Also I may need that income to support in-laws who have already lost their jobs and to whom I’ve already donated my government issued stimulus check.

I get people are out there dealing with it. Many of them have no alternative method of doing their job. But hey, let’s reopen schools at one of the worst times to do so. Close everything else tho. So glad our first lockdown went so well.

In the end I’ll take the risk as well as the risk of bringing it home to my family too.

 

[LAKings88]

it's all irrelevant because the press release from today says they're 100% distance learning so all's well anyway

LAUSD so far, not all.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

As a parent the distance learning was terribly ineffective and didn’t offer the social building skills that are one of the major keys of kids development in general in their formative years in grade school. If I have to shut down my business without pay why should teachers get paid?

Once again the distance learning is a horrible experience for all involved from every teacher I have talked too. I also am not a teacher, and not being paid for my time to do so. I’ll take the refund on my property taxes and send my kid to a private school that are finding ways to reopen 5 days a week and have better college acceptance statistics. I don’t have to hear about labor disputes or unions.

 

[LAKings88]

As a parent the distance learning was terribly ineffective and didn’t offer the social building skills that are one of the major keys of kids development in general in their formative years in grade school. If I have to shut down my business without pay why should teachers get paid?

once again the distance learning is a horrible experience for all embolden and I am not a teacher and not being paid for my time to do so.

Teaching online is extremely difficult. Most teachers had two weeks at most to try and learn new platforms, a new way to teach, and build curriculum independently without much help from districts. It was not ideal and not true online teaching. I worked from 6am-10pm those first few weeks and will likely have to do so again. I prefer to be in a classroom but the risk is real. Heaven forbid a colleague or student die from a classroom spread. Even if we do return, how many times might your student’s class have to quarantine throughout the year? Most returns will still feature an online component too. It’s really a tough situation. It is not sit on your ass and collect a pay check tho.

 

[KINGS17]

So cut educational funding entirely--because distance learning with a qualified and credentialed teacher is--in your eyes--inferior to home schooling with random, uncredentialed tutors? I guess that's one approach.

And to the last point, I guess we've finally come to the ultimate cliff--the unending budgetary bludgeoning of public ed has finally led to people seeking other options. I'm not going to get on a soapbox about charter schools other than to say the reasons (or I should say perceptions) surveys favor (the idea of, because reality is different) charter schools at large is because they symbolize/represent what people are looking for in public schools. Further defunding public schools is like...jeez man. I don't even know where to go from there other than to say what a time to talk about stripping money from education.

With respect to charter schools right now--their biggest problems and criticisms would only be exacerbated by Covid; and that is the criticism of lack of service to POC and students with disabilities. Which brings us full circle to that union piece. With LA's demographics, shifting funds away from the communities most affected by both educational changes in general and disproportionately affected by coronavirus is catastrophic.

We are not going to see eye to eye on this one and that's fine, but whether you think public ed as a whole is bloated with administration or inefficient or whatever, now's not really the time to be putting further strain on their resources.

Home schooling, while I don't think is as effective as attending school, is an approved method. I prefer to have the kids in school even in a limited capacity. If the LA Teacher's Union wants to use the virus as a negotiating tool, then I am not sympathetic to the approach. Parents and students have been part of a failing public education system for some time. This is why any parent of a LAUSD student who can afford it, sends their kid to a private school. School choice is a viable option.

I don't want to put further strain on classroom resources, including teachers. I want the bloated administration reduced via layoffs and retirements. I want the largest school districts broken up and reconstituted into smaller districts with streamlined administration and more accountability to the neighborhoods they serve.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Teaching online is extremely difficult. Most teachers had two weeks at most to try and learn new platforms, a new way to teach, and build curriculum independently without much help from districts. It was not ideal and not true online teaching. I worked from 6am-10pm those first few weeks and will likely have to do so again. I prefer to be in a classroom but the risk is real. Heaven forbid a colleague or student die from a classroom spread. Even if we do return, how many times might your student’s class have to quarantine throughout the year? Most returns will still feature an online component too. It’s really a tough situation. It is not sit on your ass and collect a pay check tho.

Honestly I could care less about what the teachers and administration are getting paid. If that is the priority over my child getting the best learning and social experience you guys are going to be out of a job.


If people want to not send their kids to school; pay for tutoring from the teachers that are too scared to go back to work. Sounds pretty simple. Over 80% of parents want their children back at school 5 days a week on a normal school schedule in our district according to the polls that were sent out.

 

[LAKings88]

Honestly I could care less about what the teachers and administration are getting paid. If that is the priority over my child getting the best learning and social experience you guys are going to be out of a job.


If people want to not send their kids to school; pay for tutoring from the teachers that are too scared to go back to work. Sounds pretty simple. Over 80% of parents want their children back at school 5 days a week on a normal school schedule in our district according to the polls that were sent out.

It is not about pay. It is about avoiding potential death or serious harm. Online is temporary not permanent. How many other jobs is it ok to work from home? Not teaching tho right? Good luck with your alternative plans. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

If you don’t want to do the job go find another career. Essential workers like nurses do it every day without fear. Quit being a baby and go teach our kids.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Hilarious that people like a sport like hockey where they want their players to be courageous, play through injuries, sacrifice their bodies long term health to win a game. Then personally they are afraid to go to work because they might get sick with a bad flu for 90% of cases. This thing statistically isn’t going to kill you unless you are obese, old, diabetic, or have a weak immune system. If that is the case sit on the bench collect unemployment like the rest of us who have been shut down by the governor.

the results of distance learning are a complete waste of time. The results are horrible and why do you expect 30 parents to stay home because 1 teacher doesn’t want to go to work.

 

[Legionnaire]

Hilarious that people like a sport like hockey where they want their players to be courageous, play through injuries, sacrifice their bodies long term health to win a game. Then personally they are afraid to go to work because they might get sick with a bad flu for 90% of cases. This thing statistically isn’t going to kill you unless you are obese, old, diabetic, or have a weak immune system. If that is the case sit on the bench collect unemployment like the rest of us who have been shut down by the governor.

the results of distance learning are a complete waste of time. The results are horrible and why do you expect 30 parents to stay home because 1 teacher doesn’t want to go to work.

It is not about any of that. It is about not infecting those who are vulnerable just as 88 said.

The main difference being that hockey players will be in a "bubble" and therefore unable to spread it to vulnerable loved ones.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If you don’t want to do the job go find another career.
.

Teachers want to teach but they have a right to safety just like anyone else...maybe even more so than anyone else given they're teaching your kids. And I don't think you'll find many careers who do it for the love of the job itself more than teachers. If you think they're resistant to going back in the fall because of some sort of moral stand or rebellion, you're horribly wrong.

Essential workers like nurses do it every day without fear.

Essential workers have been fighting for the same rights and PPE as teachers this entire time, everyone from grocery store workers to ups drivers to nurses. And plenty have been in and out of this thread and I'm sure they'd tell you 'without fear' is very likely the wrong term. But if you don't see the difference between nurses and teachers...

Quit being a baby and go teach our kids.

Oh, I see. You don't. Everyone exists to serve you.

With large gatherings of people and indoor activity being shutdown because of exponential spikes in cases and hospitals nearby starting to get overrun, you're saying it's cowardly to not light a match at the gas station. You're entitled to your bad, misinformed opinion, I guess.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hilarious that people like a sport like hockey where they want their players to be courageous, play through injuries, sacrifice their bodies long term health to win a game. Then personally they are afraid to go to work because they might get sick with a bad flu for 90% of cases. This thing statistically isn’t going to kill you unless you are obese, old, diabetic, or have a weak immune system. If that is the case sit on the bench collect unemployment like the rest of us who have been shut down by the governor.

the results of distance learning are a complete waste of time. The results are horrible and why do you expect 30 parents to stay home because 1 teacher doesn’t want to go to work.

There's already a giant teacher shortage for a lot of reasons. U.S. schools struggle to hire and retain teachers: The second report in ‘The Perfect Storm in the Teacher Labor Market’ series

1/3 of teachers are in the high danger group that we should be protecting.

That's a lot of people sitting on the bench before the game even starts.

It's a lot more of an elaborate issue than your ignorant simplification will allow you to see and that's before we talk about your inability to see any grey area between binary "100% healthy" and "dead." But calling it a bad flu tells me all I need to know about your assessment of current events so I guess we're done there.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

No I’m saying if you can’t do a job right don’t do it at all and don’t waste money. Shut it down and resume when things are “safe”. Why do the rest of us either go to work and do the job the way it needs to be done Construction, nurses, cops, Hair stylists, fast food workers, etc. . Go collect unemployment like everyone else. Why would we pay you guys to do something that doesn’t work. Over 80 percent of parents in our school district thought distance learning was a terrible idea. Our kids didn’t learn for shit, it puts a burden on parents to stay home and partner in education unpaid.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

There's already a giant teacher shortage for a lot of reasons. U.S. schools struggle to hire and retain teachers: The second report in ‘The Perfect Storm in the Teacher Labor Market’ series

1/3 of teachers are in the high danger group that we should be protecting.

That's a lot of people sitting on the bench before the game even starts.

It's a lot more of an elaborate issue than your ignorant simplification will allow you to see and that's before we talk about your inability to see any grey area between binary "100% healthy" and "dead." But calling it a bad flu tells me all I need to know about your assessment of current events so I guess we're done there.

It is a bad flu for over 95% of patients. Like I said mortality rate of less than .05 percent last time I read. That a whole lot of gray area and a bunch of over reaction.

If your predisposed To infection stay home nobody is forcing you to do anything. But your. It going to get paid. Why should teachers get paid and people like hairstylist or waitress not? Why are you more special than them?

 

[Legionnaire]

No I’m saying if you can’t do a job right don’t do it at all and don’t waste money. Shut it down and resume when things are “safe”. Why do the rest of us either go to work and do the job the way it needs to be done Construction, nurses, cops, Hair stylists, fast food workers, etc. . Go collect unemployment like everyone else. Why would we pay you guys to do something that doesn’t work. Over 80 percent of parents in our school district thought distance learning was a terrible idea. Our kids didn’t learn for shit, it puts a burden on parents to stay home and partner in education unpaid.

I think this is a big problem in our education system - parents need "daycare" and worry less about content or quality of education.