Legionnaire
Help On The Way
8.4% of children have asthma. It's a lung related virus. I'm thinking in the long run it saved a lot of lives.
General COVID-19 Talk #2, NHL Phase 2 begins early June Mod Warning post 1
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ricardfromage
"You wanted the Germs, you get em"
Awwwww Maynard.....Not so.......I have been saying it all along. Don't let the facts get in your way buddy, just be happy living by that river of yours. Egypt hot this time of year?
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ricardfromage
"You wanted the Germs, you get em"
So you have proof that this virus wasn't created in a lab in China? Not anecdotal but actual fact based evidence? I would use the word empirical but I hate the F'ing Royals so much it makes my sphincter pinch.
1. I didn’t say shit about where the virus came from.
2. Even if it was engineered in a lab, what does that have to do with a cure being”already available”? I can burn your house down with a match, can I use that match to rebuild it?
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
You claimed it was a FACT that it was created in a Chinese lab, so YOU have the burden of proof. Not anecdotal, but actual fact based evidence. You have none.
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Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Arizona is getting absolutely smoked right now.
And that's worrisome because much like earlier on, people will leave the relative safety of California regulations for Vegas, AZ for vacation and bring it back.
Personally I would mandate travelers across state boundaries in any manner--car or air--get tested, but that's just me and a bunch of countries having success with this thing I guess.
Edit: relatedly:
"A retired Manhattan surgeon infected with coronavirus reportedly flew on a cross-country flight from New York to Los Angeles back in mid-March, resulting in the virus unknowingly spreading to others, who later died, according to a report. It was one of two flights with an infected person on board, the other from Seoul, South Korea on March 8. Public health officials reportedly failed to inform anyone on the flight."
Passengers with COVID-19 flew on flights to LAX, public not warned: report
And that's worrisome because much like earlier on, people will leave the relative safety of California regulations for Vegas, AZ for vacation and bring it back.
Personally I would mandate travelers across state boundaries in any manner--car or air--get tested, but that's just me and a bunch of countries having success with this thing I guess.
Edit: relatedly:
"A retired Manhattan surgeon infected with coronavirus reportedly flew on a cross-country flight from New York to Los Angeles back in mid-March, resulting in the virus unknowingly spreading to others, who later died, according to a report. It was one of two flights with an infected person on board, the other from Seoul, South Korea on March 8. Public health officials reportedly failed to inform anyone on the flight."
Passengers with COVID-19 flew on flights to LAX, public not warned: report
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
- May 9, 2014
- 5,823
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If you wait until the hospitals are overcrowded you’d have been in huge trouble. Apart from anything else there would have been a great number of people infected that had not yet become symptomatic. As such you have to make the call before you hit overcrowding. There is also a point at when transmission rates become more or less exponential and then you are out of control and everyone is enraged that action wasn’t taken sooner. That tipping point is different for every virus or disease, so at best it’s an educated guess.
The reality is that had everyone followed a strict lockdown right at the beginning this virus would have been dead long ago. Obviously that wasn’t realistic but many people in every country in the world have broken lockdown when not truly needed which has extended this for us all. In the UK we were doing ok under lockdown but now that the rules have been relaxed people have turned into idiots. As an example up ‘tombstoning helicopter recuse in Durdle Door UK’ which sums it up completely, people have lost their minds and infection rates are going back up again.
Jesus Christ... Besides bozos jumping to their deaths, the people are packed shoulder to shoulder on the beach. Oof.
I think your living in fantasy land if you think there is a way to prevent everyone in the country from not interacting with people outside of their family. Which is what a strict lockdown means to me.
That would work if we also prevented anyone from outside of our country from entering. Our country going forward.
But at a certain point you need to deal with reality. Lots of businesses still would have stayed open. People still would have interacted with each other, people from other countries still would have entered ours, even in our overlords perfect fantasy lockdown, it was unrealistic.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Gotta love admitting defeat before even taking the field.
Better tell New Zealand, who just enjoyed rugby with full crowds, and a bunch of other countries around the globe that are trending down bigtime that it's impossible.
Unless you're making a point about the American individualism/exceptionalism and a total lack of collective discipline, in which case you're absolute right AND it's unfortunately a self-fulfilling prophecy when you put it that way.
Lol, he said this: "The reality is that had everyone followed a strict lockdown right at the beginning this virus would have been dead long ago"
That's reality? Ok bud
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Evidence around the world suggests that was the right approach.
Those that didn't are watching continually rising deaths and monitoring for a second wave instead of enjoying live sports (new zealand) and the return of other in-person entertainment as case rates and deaths decline rather than rise like they are here.
Instead, you have people taking vacations into crowded rooms with no PPE.
That's reality, bud. Unless you have some other evidence that's not just a strong personal feeling about things.
You're saying we should never have shut down and evidence shows those that didn't are running out of control right now while those that did stemmed the tide at least temporarily.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
- 25,052
- 21,322
I wonder how much the rioting will raise the covid levels.
The media was stupid to not condemn the rioting. Egging on protesters is going to have a big effect on the spread.
The media was stupid to not condemn the rioting. Egging on protesters is going to have a big effect on the spread.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Multiple people have provided you fair reasoning, actual stats and evidence, and a lot of leeway for discussion...and you've chosen deliberate ignorance. If that was your only takeaway, sorry, I've got nothing else to say to you.
Jason Squirties
Registered User
- Apr 15, 2014
- 1,338
- 1,043
Sorry RJ, thats an apples to oranges comparo.
NZ didn't shut down until March 25th and they didn't do a whole lot different than a bunch of other countries except they were able to shut their borders and were lucky to be very late to the party with the infection rates hitting their shores. I find the global gushing over Jacinda a tad laughable and that's where the majority of my family are from and live, they feel similarly. It's a feel good story in all of this mess though so I understand there's going to be some embellishing that goes with it.
NZ didn't shut down until March 25th and they didn't do a whole lot different than a bunch of other countries except they were able to shut their borders and were lucky to be very late to the party with the infection rates hitting their shores. I find the global gushing over Jacinda a tad laughable and that's where the majority of my family are from and live, they feel similarly. It's a feel good story in all of this mess though so I understand there's going to be some embellishing that goes with it.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
What about all the other countries we've talked about, especially those on the linked chart?
South Korea. Germany. Belgium. Switzerland. Norway. Do I really need to go on?
The countries that have struggled the most with this are those who stubbornly refuse to either A. close down or B. follow personal safety protocols or C. both and I don't see how even the staunchest defender of opening up can dispute that.
Yes, you can consider the US more like Europe as a whole rather than as an individual country, but its individual cases show the same phenomenon.
Jason Squirties
Registered User
- Apr 15, 2014
- 1,338
- 1,043
I was merely pointing out that NZ was not a great example for a number of factors with isolation being a huge one. You are correct, those other examples are better examples.
redcard
System Poster
- Mar 12, 2007
- 7,272
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I haven't read much of this thread lately so I just wanted to stop by and say that half of you are wrong.
Don't remember which half, so just decide among yourselves who receives my disdain.
Don't remember which half, so just decide among yourselves who receives my disdain.
Im over the conversation, I don't find any of your arguments compelling for a variety of reasons. No I don't think this virus would be dead long ago if we followed an even stricter shutdown. No I don't think we are a comparable country to NZ, etc...
If you guys keep quoting me with silly responses than I might get sucked back in. But my plan is not to lol. I'd rather talk about hockey anyways.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Right, and you in particular weren't using it to be rude, but picking out NZ out of literally several pages worth of evidential posts to dismiss an argument is dishonest.
That's either an issue of personal choice or an issue of your ability to conceptualize mountains of evidence.
I think you're smart so I don't think it's the second one, and you're often very reasonable which is why I'm frustrated that it's most likely the first.
It's not about changing your mind in full especially since there's a ton of grey area. It's about trying to conceptualize how shutting down is helpful to some degree. I'll just leave you with this, a good visual for the different scenarios.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
Useful as well since it's randomized each time you do it.
Hers the thing. My argument is pretty simple, our hospitals have never been close to being overrun. So we didn't have to shut down.
And if we hadn't shut down then we would have avoided almost all of the negative aspects of doing it.
We should immiediately end all of this nonsense as flattening the curve is worthless if our hospitals are empty.
So selectively showing countries that have not shut down and have had some more cases does nothing against my argument. Because I am not saying that keeping a bunch of people at home has no effect on transmitting cases. Of course it has some effect.
What you and everyone else who is arguing with me (and I know PLENTY of people agree with me) have to prove isn't that the shutdown has had some impact on temporarily reducing the number of cases. Which it obviously would. What you have to prove is that the number of additional cases is SO GREAT that our hospitals would literally be turning really sick people away and letting them die because of a lack of resources.
So none of these arguments about "look at this country or this state" are all that compelling because when I look at it I think " so they avoided all of the negatives and the impact was only that many more cases? That looks pretty manageable, we could handle that"
It doesn't bolster your argument it makes it worse imo. Because I think we are just extending the duration of this. I don't think we are doing something that will make much difference in the long run as a lot of people that were in absolute quarantine will just get it when they come out of it.
And then bringing up counties like NZ is just a nothing argument to me. It's not relevant.
Saying things like this virus would be dead by now if we all just did better at quarantining is actually incredibly ignorant. And obviously a bad argument.
The economy vs lives argument is deceptive because you are asserting that it is just money on one side and lives on the other. When it is actually lives on both sides. So I'm not going to play that game.
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