General COVID-19 Talk #2, NHL Phase 2 begins early June Mod Warning post 1

[Bandit]

I think your living in fantasy land if you think there is a way to prevent everyone in the country from not interacting with people outside of their family. Which is what a strict lockdown means to me.

Well given your abject failure at the concept I'm not surprised you think it's a fantasy.

Personally I've been basically hanging around my neighborhood for months but that's about it. Still some of my neighbors have construction jobs so they have been at work and in contact with people throughout this entire quarantine, and my kids hang out with their kids all the time. So anyone they're parents have been in contact with then I have too by proxy. That number starts to get incredibly large.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Well given your abject failure at the concept I'm not surprised you think it's a fantasy.

What's your point?

Or are you just being the hall monitor?

 

[Jason Squirties]

Right, and you in particular weren't using it to be rude, but picking out NZ out of literally several pages worth of evidential posts to dismiss an argument is dishonest.

I gotta take my W's wherever I can get them, isn't that what the internet is all about?

I gotta admit tho, part of me is sour or tart(if ur a kiwi) at this point watching friends and fam spend time watching live sports as if this thing was a distant memory. Doesn't change the fact they've got a long way to go since so much of their economy relies on tourism and hospitality.

 

[Bandit]

What's your point?

Or are you just being the hall monitor?

Sorry you outed yourself as a member of the “it would be comical except it’s exceedingly dangerous to people’s lives” group of society that is complaining about having to alter their life for a few months while simultaneously not doing it.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Sorry you outed yourself as a member of the “it would be comical except it’s exceedingly dangerous to people’s lives” group of society that is complaining about having to alter their life for a few months while simultaneously not doing it.

Because I didn't keep my kids inside the house for three months and instead let them play with the neighbors? Get over yourself.

 

[Bandit]

Because I didn't keep my kids inside the house for three months and instead let them play with the neighbors? Get over yourself.

 

[Rusty Batch]

You actually don't have a point though. I already asked what it was and you basically just wanted to call me out... For letting my kids play with neighbors.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hers the thing. My argument is pretty simple, our hospitals have never been close to being overrun. So we didn't have to shut down.
And if we hadn't shut down then we would have avoided almost all of the negative aspects of doing it.
We should immiediately end all of this nonsense as flattening the curve is worthless if our hospitals are empty.

So selectively showing countries that have not shut down and have had some more cases does nothing against my argument. Because I am not saying that keeping a bunch of people at home has no effect on transmitting cases. Of course it has some effect.

What you and everyone else who is arguing with me (and I know PLENTY of people agree with me) have to prove isn't that the shutdown has had some impact on temporarily reducing the number of cases. Which it obviously would. What you have to prove is that the number of additional cases is SO GREAT that our hospitals would literally be turning really sick people away and letting them die because of a lack of resources.

So none of these arguments about "look at this country or this state" are all that compelling because when I look at it I think " so they avoided all of the negatives and the impact was only that many more cases? That looks pretty manageable, we could handle that"

It doesn't bolster your argument it makes it worse imo. Because I think we are just extending the duration of this. I don't think we are doing something that will make much difference in the long run as a lot of people that were in absolute quarantine will just get it when they come out of it.

And then bringing up counties like NZ is just a nothing argument to me. It's not relevant.
Saying things like this virus would be dead by now if we all just did better at quarantining is actually incredibly ignorant. And obviously a bad argument.

The economy vs lives argument is deceptive because you are asserting that it is just money on one side and lives on the other. When it is actually lives on both sides. So I'm not going to play that game.

I'm genuinely at a loss for words because you completely misinterpreted or misrepresented my entire argument as well as completely glossed over actual data, so I'm just gonna let it go otherwise, but I will say not once did I say anything remotely like "all money on one side, lives on the other."

 

[Rusty Batch]

I'm genuinely at a loss for words because you completely misinterpreted or misrepresented my entire argument as well as completely glossed over actual data, so I'm just gonna let it go otherwise, but I will say not once did I say anything remotely like "all money on one side, lives on the other."

I was talking in general terms about arguments people have made to me in here, including when I said the economy vs lives part. It has been brought up multiple times but I'll take your word for it that it wasn't you. So I apologize if I made it sound like that was coming from you, my intention was to address alot of the bad arguments from multiple posters and I probably made it sound like it was coming from you.

I do think I addressed many of your points though.

 

[Statto]

First meaningful treatment announced...

Life-saving coronavirus drug 'major breakthrough'

 

[Bandit]

You actually don't have a point though. I already asked what it was and you basically just wanted to call me out... For letting my kids play with neighbors.

Nah, I called you out for complaining about quarantine when you’re not actually even doing it. The directive was quarantine, not quarantine, unless you have kids. I’m certain you’re not alone, and this is why as a society we can’t have nice things.

 

[Bandit]

First meaningful treatment announced...

Life-saving coronavirus drug 'major breakthrough'

Hopefully it’s not debunked or retracted in the next 30 minutes.

 

[Statto]

I think your living in fantasy land if you think there is a way to prevent everyone in the country from not interacting with people outside of their family. Which is what a strict lockdown means to me.

.

Erm… hence I said 'Obviously that wasn't realistic''

 

[Statto]

Jesus Christ... Besides bozos jumping to their deaths, the people are packed shoulder to shoulder on the beach. Oof.

Insane, right? Its the local councils fault for virtually encouraging people to come down and social distance on the beach and spend money. If there is one place its impossible to manage social distancing its a beach especially as no one controlled numbers. However the people that went there were absolutely stupid, at best. The council actually opened up all the public parking and whilst they closed them the following day people had already started arriving and people just parked illegally instead.

 

[Statto]

Lol, he said this: "The reality is that had everyone followed a strict lockdown right at the beginning this virus would have been dead long ago"

That's reality? Ok bud

Yes, read the context … HAD people followed lockdown... I then added it was unrealistic...

 

[Jason Squirties]

New Zealand coronavirus: two new cases reported after UK travelers test positive - CNN oopsie

 

[Master Yoda]

And then you also have a country like Honduras that has been locked down for over two months where people are only allowed go outside once every two weeks to get groceries and such.
And their confirmed cases are still rising.
I'm sure it saved lives in the short term. But it still remains to be seen if a country like Sweden made the right decision in the long run.
We'll have a better idea 2-3 years down the line.

 

[crassbonanza]

The thing about the lockdown that every proponent neglect to discuss is the exit strategy. The concept of the lockdown was to bend the curve, to slow the infection and spread it over a longer period of time. The lockdown itself is not a cure and it is not a means of eradicating the disease. The only way that the lockdown will prevent deaths is if we maintain the lockdown until a cure is found, until we are able to develop and distribute a vaccine, or if the disease ends up mutating into a less dangerous strain. Otherwise you are eventually going to see similar numbers across all regions once everyone reaches herd immunity, with the only variation linked to how well each region protected their nursing homes.

 

[Bandit]

The thing about the lockdown that every proponent neglect to discuss is the exit strategy. The concept of the lockdown was to bend the curve, to slow the infection and spread it over a longer period of time. The lockdown itself is not a cure and it is not a means of eradicating the disease. The only way that the lockdown will prevent deaths is if we maintain the lockdown until a cure is found, until we are able to develop and distribute a vaccine, or if the disease ends up mutating into a less dangerous strain. Otherwise you are eventually going to see similar numbers across all regions once everyone reaches herd immunity, with the only variation linked to how well each region protected their nursing homes.

I don't think anyone expected the lockdown to be a cure, but that's not necessarily true. If there was truly a total lockdown and the virus had no new hosts to spread to, it would die. Of course that's not really possible with a population of 7.6 billion, particularly where every 4th person is a bozo (and that's probably being generous).

As for exit strategy, the only choice seems t be open up slowly and see what happens. How slowly is of course open to debate by every expert with a keyboard and an asshole.

 

[LAKings88]

Pence Misleadingly Blames Coronavirus Spikes on Rise in Testing

 

[Rusty Batch]

Nah, I called you out for complaining about quarantine when you’re not actually even doing it. The directive was quarantine, not quarantine, unless you have kids. I’m certain you’re not alone, and this is why as a society we can’t have nice things.

I've been quarantined for three months lol. I also let my kids go outside, so they aren't inside playing fortnite all day with goofs like you.

 

[KINGS17]

Pence Misleadingly Blames Coronavirus Spikes on Rise in Testing

Yeah, more testing will make the raw number of cases go up. The important stat to look at is the number of tests which are returning as positive. The demographics of the population being tested in different areas could also influence the percentage of positive tests though as well.

If someone goes down into the most densely populated portions of LA County and conducts 1,000 tests, the percentage of positive tests will go up. On the flip side if you go to a rural county and conduct 1,000 tests, the percentage of positive tests will go down. Interpreting the data, as well as economic decisions regarding the combatting of COVID-19 is not a one-size fits all proposition.

 

[LAKings88]

Seems to me that cases are rising in general since lockdowns lifted.

Professional health care workers still urge distancing and masks to stop the spread to others.

Government officials dont seem to want to talk about it or have any threat to reopening.

I don’t think coronavirus is going away anytime soon.

 

[Lt Dan]

I don’t think coronavirus is going away anytime soon.

It's not. We are WAY past containment and were past containment on March 1

I think /hope that the strategy is to keep the hospitals and ICUs from overflowing and try to mitigate the spread

A vaccine is still at least a year away
I don't know if everyone remembers Newsom saying that he expects more half of all Californians to get it

This is a fine line between killing the economy and overloading our medical system

 

[Bandit]

I've been quarantined for three months lol. I also let my kids go outside, so they aren't inside playing fortnite all day with goofs like you.

It's clear you don't understand how quarantine works, so there isn't really anything more to say. Also, I don't do online gaming, so nice whiff on that one too. I'll leave this here, I suspect you probably could use it: