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GDT: Game #51 : KINGS @ BLUEJACKETS -- Bluejackets A LOT, Kings NOT ENOUGH

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Richie10 said:
This team didn't "magically" get worse. They got healthy. I've been beating the same ****ing drum for a month now. When Lewis, Clifford, Fraser, etc etc were all out, this team looked entirely different. It's not a coincidence anymore.
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Clifford, Lewis and Fraser should not be anything more than 13th forwards on teams that are trying to contend.

But the Kings biggest issues are still with their best players.

Kopitar isn't scoring.
Brown and Richards are shells of what they were in 2012.
Doughty is struggling big time.
Williams has been bad for awhile now.
Toffoli is in Manchester.
Stoll is back into one of his offensive slumps after coming out for about 10 games.

The only forwards really meeting or exceeding expectations this season are Carter, King and Nolan.
 
Herby said:
Clifford, Lewis and Fraser should not be anything more than 13th forwards on teams that are trying to contend.

But the Kings biggest issues are still with their best players.

Kopitar isn't scoring.
Brown and Richards are shells of what they were in 2012.
Doughty is struggling big time.
Williams has been bad for awhile now.
Toffoli is in Manchester.
Stoll is back into one of his offensive slumps after coming out for about 10 games.

The only forwards really meeting or exceeding expectations this season are Carter, King and Nolan.
Click to expand...

New first line right there:sarcasm:
 
Richie10 said:
This team didn't "magically" get worse. They got healthy. I've been beating the same ****ing drum for a month now. When Lewis, Clifford, Fraser, etc etc were all out, this team looked entirely different. It's not a coincidence anymore.
Click to expand...

That was schedule more than anything , that run featured a lot of poor playing teams and East coast teams.

January is a rough schedule ,its not a surprise the Kings are losing games really .
 
Reminded of Terry Murray hockey where the default move was "system" as opposed to creativity. The first goal tonight gave me hope because Lewis actually took it off the boards and straight to the front and not behind the net. Good things happened. Save for a neutral zone turnover that led to the Carter goal, seemed everything else was along the boards, per the usual.

Umberger goal tonight notwithstanding, it's pretty hard to score goals from the boards.

They are absolutely disgusting to watch right now and not in a "sick, bro!" kind of way....like disgusting the way it was originally meant to be used. The cavalry can save the "real fan" or "don't watch" third-man-in act: I'm going to keep watching like I always do but it is not exciting and there is a slight sense of dread. Nothing is shocking at this point except a Kings power play goal or a goal that puts a "3" on the scoreboard next to their name.

As for this CAP discussion, just wait until that beauty Brown extension kicks in! Woahhh Baby!!!

Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward: the prospects on this team really need to develop for this franchise to win another Cup with the current core. They really need another impact guy on the blueline; Voynov has not been as good as expected this year. Scoring has obviously been a huge problem but wow is the goal scoring from the back end just embarrassing so far. Still, at the end of the day, you go as far as your best players take you: the two best forwards from the Cup Run are middling to terrible right now and they sucked in the playoffs last year as well. That is extremely concerning.
 
BigKing said:
Reminded of Terry Murray hockey where the default move was "system" as opposed to creativity. The first goal tonight gave me hope because Lewis actually took it off the boards and straight to the front and not behind the net. Good things happened. Save for a neutral zone turnover that led to the Carter goal, seemed everything else was along the boards, per the usual.

Umberger goal tonight notwithstanding, it's pretty hard to score goals from the boards.

They are absolutely disgusting to watch right now and not in a "sick, bro!" kind of way....like disgusting the way it was originally meant to be used. The cavalry can save the "real fan" or "don't watch" third-man-in act: I'm going to keep watching like I always do but it is not exciting and there is a slight sense of dread. Nothing is shocking at this point except a Kings power play goal or a goal that puts a "3" on the scoreboard next to their name.

As for this CAP discussion, just wait until that beauty Brown extension kicks in! Woahhh Baby!!!

Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward: the prospects on this team really need to develop for this franchise to win another Cup with the current core. They really need another impact guy on the blueline; Voynov has not been as good as expected this year. Scoring has obviously been a huge problem but wow is the goal scoring from the back end just embarrassing so far. Still, at the end of the day, you go as far as your best players take you: the two best forwards from the Cup Run are middling to terrible right now and they sucked in the playoffs last year as well. That is extremely concerning.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Leaving this here because I have a low ******** tolerance for outsiders this week--very few visitors are posting productively.

2) Trolling: Do not make posts or threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. Note that a person disagreeing with your opinion is NOT trolling; please keep it civil, even if you're sure the other person is wrong. When visiting the team forums, please note that they are fan forums for that team and are here mainly for the enjoyment of that team's fans. Do not visit team forums to cheer against nor demean their team. In other words, if you want to cheer for the Habs and criticize the Bruins, do it on the Habs board. And if someone is doing the opposite on the Bruins board, don't start flaming them to defend the honor of your team. Either ignore it or respectfully disagree and move on. Wishing illness or injury on someone will almost always be regarded as trolling or offensive. We do not permit any forums to be used to demean/insult the fans of other teams. That is considered trolling. Copying posts from one HFBoard team forum to another for this purpose is considered trolling.

Keep that in mind for your brave forays to other forums as well, especially as the Ducks games are coming up :nod:
 
32898320.jpg
 
BigKing said:
Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward
Click to expand...

And of course many on here said that they traded away and sold their souls for one cup. That was more overrating guys like Ladd and Versteeg, ultimately championships are one with your great players being great and getting support roles from lesser players. That is how the Kings won and it's how the Hawks won both their cups. Right now the Hawks are getting great production from secondary players like Saad and Shaw. The Kings aren't getting great play from their great players and their secondary players are completely non-existent outside of King.

Chicago let go of Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Frolik, Campbell, Kopecky, Bolland and Madden because they were worth more than their slotted cap hits, they replaced these guys with mostly younger, cheaper players they developed in the farm system or guys they traded for. I totally agree with you that the loyalty to 2012 could be an issue down the road, we have already seen it with the Stoll signing, but that is going to be nothing compared to some of these other tough decisions that have to be made, just remember, the Kings owe Brown and Richards close to $12 million a season combined through 2020 (and Brown's deal carries over to 2022). It's only one terrible season for them right now, but what if they both struggle again next season, then it could be time for tough decisions, I hope DL can make them if they are needed.
 
No one talking about Frattin but he is getting top line minutes and still can't score. Jim Fox even said if things don't turn around except a change...regarding Frattin.
 
I've already accepted the fact that we may see the Kings opt to not even tender a qualifying offer to Frattin. There's just no room for him on this roster and they're pretty much forcing him to play out of position. And I fully expect him to go find success elsewhere because that's just how things work out for the Kings.
 
Reclamation Project said:
Frattin has looked good. Can't bury a chance to save his life though.
Click to expand...

It has to be a confidence thing, it's like that for everyone, Richardson has 8 goals, Penner is scoring goals. It's a confidence thing. Frattin looks really good, on other teams I'm sure he'd be burying alot more.
 
Why the heck would Lombardi ask for a RW back in deal when the Kings are loaded at RW. We only have two natural LW'ers...King and Clifford. We let Penner walk and DL trades for a RW. I don't get it!

Lombardi should have asked for Kulemin or one of Torontos LW prospects like Leivo, Broll, Ross, Abbott or D'Amigo. They are loaded at LW.
 
KingKopitar11 said:
It has to be a confidence thing, it's like that for everyone, Richardson has 8 goals, Penner is scoring goals. It's a confidence thing. Frattin looks really good, on other teams I'm sure he'd be burying alot more.
Click to expand...

Richardson was a good player that has had his role expanded. Understandable. Penner is a product of two of the best players in the league in a great offensive system. And now I find out he's been a healthy scratch for numerous games. I'm shoooooooocked!

I hope we sign Frattin for dirt cheap.
 
BigKing said:
Reminded of Terry Murray hockey where the default move was "system" as opposed to creativity. The first goal tonight gave me hope because Lewis actually took it off the boards and straight to the front and not behind the net. Good things happened. Save for a neutral zone turnover that led to the Carter goal, seemed everything else was along the boards, per the usual.

Umberger goal tonight notwithstanding, it's pretty hard to score goals from the boards.

They are absolutely disgusting to watch right now and not in a "sick, bro!" kind of way....like disgusting the way it was originally meant to be used. The cavalry can save the "real fan" or "don't watch" third-man-in act: I'm going to keep watching like I always do but it is not exciting and there is a slight sense of dread. Nothing is shocking at this point except a Kings power play goal or a goal that puts a "3" on the scoreboard next to their name.

As for this CAP discussion, just wait until that beauty Brown extension kicks in! Woahhh Baby!!!

Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward: the prospects on this team really need to develop for this franchise to win another Cup with the current core. They really need another impact guy on the blueline; Voynov has not been as good as expected this year. Scoring has obviously been a huge problem but wow is the goal scoring from the back end just embarrassing so far. Still, at the end of the day, you go as far as your best players take you: the two best forwards from the Cup Run are middling to terrible right now and they sucked in the playoffs last year as well. That is extremely concerning.
Click to expand...

I wish you posted more.

I 100% agree with everything in this post.
 
A complete overhaul is probably necessary, but you can't do that all at once and expect to contend, ala 2011 Hawks.

Vey and Toffoli should be getting minutes in the teens. Waive or trade Stoll, Lewis, Fraser, Clifford, and Frattin. Do not resign either of Mitchell or Greene. Trade Muzzin.

If one or both of Brown and Richards are struggling well into next year, it's tough decision time.

The shelf life on the 2012 magic is gone. We saw it start to dissipate last year in the playoffs, and it's totally spent this season. There are way too many passengers on this team. A guy like Stoll is perfect trade bait because he's enough apart of the country club to wake everyone the **** up when he's shipped. Additionally, he clears cap space and opens up a roster spot for a kid like Vey.

Everyone is playing frustrated and scared. No one wants to make a mistake that results in a GA because that's the death knell in Kings hockey.

Shades of Terry Murray indeed.
 
BigKing said:
Reminded of Terry Murray hockey where the default move was "system" as opposed to creativity. The first goal tonight gave me hope because Lewis actually took it off the boards and straight to the front and not behind the net. Good things happened. Save for a neutral zone turnover that led to the Carter goal, seemed everything else was along the boards, per the usual.

Umberger goal tonight notwithstanding, it's pretty hard to score goals from the boards.

They are absolutely disgusting to watch right now and not in a "sick, bro!" kind of way....like disgusting the way it was originally meant to be used. The cavalry can save the "real fan" or "don't watch" third-man-in act: I'm going to keep watching like I always do but it is not exciting and there is a slight sense of dread. Nothing is shocking at this point except a Kings power play goal or a goal that puts a "3" on the scoreboard next to their name.

As for this CAP discussion, just wait until that beauty Brown extension kicks in! Woahhh Baby!!!

Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward: the prospects on this team really need to develop for this franchise to win another Cup with the current core. They really need another impact guy on the blueline; Voynov has not been as good as expected this year. Scoring has obviously been a huge problem but wow is the goal scoring from the back end just embarrassing so far. Still, at the end of the day, you go as far as your best players take you: the two best forwards from the Cup Run are middling to terrible right now and they sucked in the playoffs last year as well. That is extremely concerning.
Click to expand...

Great post. I also think loyalty is DLs biggest fault, I think it holds him from being the best GM in hockey. I remember being so confused when DL blamed the players instead of TM, he was so emotional and distraught from the firing of TM like he was firing his dad, and none of it was TMs fault.

I like DL but he needs to be a lot more detached from the team emotionally and do what it takes to make us into a cup winner consistently. You can't ice the same team year in and out expecting the same results.

DL has some decisions to make, and he better be making them soon. He can't have an off year with us in a win now mode.
 
BigKing said:
Reminded of Terry Murray hockey where the default move was "system" as opposed to creativity. The first goal tonight gave me hope because Lewis actually took it off the boards and straight to the front and not behind the net. Good things happened. Save for a neutral zone turnover that led to the Carter goal, seemed everything else was along the boards, per the usual.

Umberger goal tonight notwithstanding, it's pretty hard to score goals from the boards.

They are absolutely disgusting to watch right now and not in a "sick, bro!" kind of way....like disgusting the way it was originally meant to be used. The cavalry can save the "real fan" or "don't watch" third-man-in act: I'm going to keep watching like I always do but it is not exciting and there is a slight sense of dread. Nothing is shocking at this point except a Kings power play goal or a goal that puts a "3" on the scoreboard next to their name.

As for this CAP discussion, just wait until that beauty Brown extension kicks in! Woahhh Baby!!!

Chicago won a Cup after waiting longer than the Kings did and immediately said goodbye to several key contributors. They finish 8th the next season, then 6th, then win the Cup again and are looking very strong. I fear Lombardi's loyalty to the 2012 squad is going to be a detriment moving forward: the prospects on this team really need to develop for this franchise to win another Cup with the current core. They really need another impact guy on the blueline; Voynov has not been as good as expected this year. Scoring has obviously been a huge problem but wow is the goal scoring from the back end just embarrassing so far. Still, at the end of the day, you go as far as your best players take you: the two best forwards from the Cup Run are middling to terrible right now and they sucked in the playoffs last year as well. That is extremely concerning.
Click to expand...

100% on the money, I couldn't agree more
 
That's what a lot of people forget - sure Kopitar and Doughty are still young, but most of these players are in their primes right now.

I see a three years window with the Richards, Carter, Quick, and Brown core, and another three after that with Kopitar and Doughty, but only if we supplement those two.

We are in our window right now. You do what it takes.
 
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