GDT: GDT #6 Detroit Red Wings vs New York Islanders | October 22nd | 7:45 PM | F/L 1-0

[MJF]

Where do you get this information?

My ticket rep.

 

[Throttle]

Leagues and teams have enough information now over the first 5 years of a new building. The isles are one of the last professional teams to get a ‘new’ building, heck teams are now looking for a second ‘new’ building…

The isles had new building bump and a ton of speculators for season tickets. The team now actually has big marketing deals and corporate suites.

STH pay for tix but limit extra in arena spend. Coupe game a season guy spends on tix, even 3rd party, typically spends more in arena on high profit margin items.

The Isles will be fine.,This isn’t Winnepeg.

 

[Rehabguy]

This is the problem.

Why in the world would you think that the GM who led them to "mediocre" is going to do anything, but what he's been doing the last 5 years...Which is to led them to more mediocre?

Things are not going to change until the GM is changed.

But you were saying the exact same thing when Snow was here. When does it all end? When do we get this unicorn of a GM you speak of?

( I liked Garth Snow in case you didn't know. Should I feel vindicated or just believe what I believe now - It doesn't matter who is GM, but the job is difficult especially if you are in charge of the lowly Isles.)

 

[MJF]

But you were saying the exact same thing when Snow was here. When does it all end? When do we get this unicorn of a GM you speak of?

( I liked Garth Snow in case you didn't know. Should I feel vindicated or just believe what I believe now - It doesn't matter who is GM, but the job is difficult especially if you are in charge of the lowly Isles.)

Believe the results. The team was not good during most of Snow's tenure and outperformed their talent level under Lou for his first 3 years. Now the team has stagnated and is regressing in some areas. This is not a binary choice with GM. Lou chose a course with the players he signed that is going to make it very difficult for him to make meaningful changes without being able to sign an elite talent as a UFA.

 

[Rehabguy]

I really don't think it's an age issue as literally Lou is GM'ing as he always has like with the Devils and Leafs. He's always foot on the pedal/add vets/pay long-term deals etc.

That said regardless if it's his behavior, age, or anything else we have a GM who is quadrupling down on mediocre and overpaid. People don't want to rebuild, but the way our GM is running things all he's doing is leading us to a rebuild eventually...And the way it looks the longer we wait the worse the pain will be.

Well some of us warned all of this about Lou or at least one of us did. If I was still a biased hater I’d look at the contracts he signed and all the deals he made and rip em apart. Where are the Leddy, Boychuk, Eberle, Barzal like deals? Where is the smart development in prospects that became Lee, Bailey, Cizikas, Martin, Nelson, Pelech, and Pulock? Who would you still rather have Eberle or Engvall? Toews or Pageau? Who was more an impact a Leddy or Boychuk or Romanov and what did each GM give up for these players? From what I see the former GM overall did a better job handling contracts and a better job finding and signing talented players that were impact players and signing them to responsible contracts and most importantly building this team through the draft.

Have we just been unlucky and got stuck with 2 GMs that absolutely sucked or is it simply the fact that it’s not an easy job.

Regardless we’re stuck with what we have and the fans wanted this. They put up the bill boards for it so we just have to deal with it and move on. There is no perfect GM if you haven’t figured it out by now.

The team as I see it can make the playoffs playing the way they are playing under Roy. Maybe they are under a lot of pressure given the faith Lou put in them. Who knows. I expect this team to make the playoffs and get a shot just as every other team will get at the Cup.

 

[Rehabguy]

Believe the results. The team was not good during most of Snow's tenure and outperformed their talent level under Lou for his first 3 years. Now the team has stagnated and is regressing in some areas. This is not a binary choice with GM. Lou chose a course with the players he signed that is going to make it very difficult for him to make meaningful changes without being able to sign an elite talent as a UFA.

Or he (Snow) was just in the very process of what you are asking for - a long and painful rebuild that got us some of the results we saw early in Lou’s tenure and many in that rebuild are still here. Some such as Sorokin, Nelson, and Barzal are still key players.

And yes believe the results Lou DID put us in a difficult position to sign an elite UFA (as Lou is apt to do) but I would also argue they don’t want and will never want to play here anyway.

Do you guys really want to go through this again? Another decade long rebuild?

Point is it really doesn’t matter who is at the helm. This is not an attractive franchise to play for. As Torrey did, and Snow said he would, the team must be built through the draft. Lou figured this out far too late.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Well some of us warned all of this about Lou or at least one of us did. If I was still a biased hater I’d look at the contracts he signed and all the deals he made and rip em apart. Where are the Leddy, Boychuk, Eberle, Barzal like deals? From what I see the former GM overall did a better job handling contracts and a better job finding and signing players that were impact players and signing them to responsible contracts. Or maybe not.

Have we just been unlucky and got stuck with 2 GMs that absolutely sucked or is it simply the fact that it’s not an easy job.

Regardless we’re stuck with what we have and the fans wanted this. They put up the bill boards for it so we just have to deal with it and move on.

The team as I see it can make the playoffs playing the way they are playing under Roy. Maybe they are under a lot of pressure given the faith Lou put in them. Who knows. I expect this team to make the playoffs and get a shot just as every other team will get at the Cup.

Snow wasn't a bad GM because of his trades or signings. Snow was a bad GM because he had a gigantic chip on his shoulder, refused to hire a proper coaching staff, and couldn't draft/develop high-end talent.

Lou is a bad GM because of his giant ego, country club culture, terrible contracts, and inability to evaluate and accept the team's state. Both can stink for different reasons.

 

[saintunspecified]

Sorry just looked at the condensed game. Sure they didn't maximize their chances, but the puck luck was extraordinarily poor. That part will turn around several times in a season.

 

[Rehabguy]

Snow wasn't a bad GM because of his trades or signings. Snow was a bad GM because he had a gigantic chip on his shoulder, refused to hire a proper coaching staff, and couldn't draft/develop high-end talent.

Lou is a bad GM because of his giant ego, country club culture, terrible contracts, and inability to evaluate and accept the team's state. Both can stink for different reasons.

Add in Milbury before those two and one would think this franchise has had a terrible time finding the right GM for the job.

If Lou is now seen a pariah what credentials are we looking for in a GM that would fix this team? Who had better credentials than Lou as many of you argued to me a few years back who can make this all right. Or is it all just a fools errand to try to look for one?

I’m sure some of you may point at Neil Smith but when he would have expectedly sucked as well then what?

The team is as good as it could be right now regardless of who had been at the helm. I just want to watch some good hockey and hope for the best.

 

[MJF]

Or he (Snow) was just in the very process of what you are asking for - a long and painful rebuild that got us some of the results we saw early in Lou’s tenure and many in that rebuild are still here. Some such as Sorokin, Nelson, and Barzal are still key players.

And yes believe the results Lou DID put us in a difficult position to sign an elite UFA (as Lou is apt to do) but I would also argue they don’t want and will never want to play here anyway.

Do you guys really want to go through this again? Another decade long rebuild?

Point is it really doesn’t matter who is at the helm. This is not an attractive franchise to play for. As Torrey did, and Snow said he would, the team must be built through the draft. Lou figured this out far too late.

Alternate facts? There’s no “or” in this. Snow was unable to accomplish anything meaningful in 13 years.

 

[Steve55]

Even the 730 start is not great for anyone bringing kids to the games.

How would 8 pm starts on weekdays work?

 

[MJF]

How would 8 pm starts on weekdays work?

Good for 20-somethings without kids. Bad for people with school aged kids or people who get up at 5 AM for work. It’s a no-win situation. Someone will always be pissed about start times.

 

[Rehabguy]

Alternate facts? There’s no “or” in this. Snow was unable to accomplish anything meaningful in 13 years.

and by your own admission Lou in his 6 years here hasn’t done much more than Snow other than digging us into a hole that we are going to have a hard time climbing out of.

You are right there is no “or” but can we at least agree that they both kinda sucked or if not what the heck should anyone be complaining about?

It all just seems like an endless cycle of complaining no matter who’s in charge. I actually like overall what I see happening on the ice. I think they will have a good year if they just keep doing what they are doing and the bounces go their way. I don’t particularly like Lou as a GM but I’m not going to complain because I know it’s a tough job if you GM of a small time club.

 

[MJF]

and by your own admission Lou in his 6 years here a has only dug us into a hole that we are going to have a hard time climbing out of.

You are right there is no “or” but can we at least agree that they both kinda sucked or if not what the heck should anyone be complaining about?

It all just seems like an endless cycle of complaining no matter who’s in charge.

It’s warranted when there is something to complain about. This is a discussion board after all.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Good for 20-somethings without kids. Bad for people with school aged kids or people who get up at 5 AM for work. It’s a no-win situation. Someone will always be pissed about start times.

I'd be happy if they played at 1pm so I didn't have to watch them.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Snow wasn't a bad GM because of his trades or signings. Snow was a bad GM because he had a gigantic chip on his shoulder, refused to hire a proper coaching staff, and couldn't draft/develop high-end talent.

Lou is a bad GM because of his giant ego, country club culture, terrible contracts, and inability to evaluate and accept the team's state. Both can stink for different reasons.

NYI point percentage:
Garth (06-18) = .513
Lou (18-24) = .571

Both can stink, but there is one that is better than the other.

 

[MJF]

NYI point percentage:
Garth (06-18) = .513
Lou (18-24) = .571

Both can stink, but there is one that is better than the other.

Uh ob. Shots fired.

 

[Rehabguy]

NYI point percentage:
Garth (06-18) = .513
Lou (18-24) = .571

Both can stink, but there is one that is better than the other.

Images of Richard Park, Andy Hilbert, and Tim Jackman enter my mind.

If you want to say they both stunk. Fine. But to say one is better than the other because one’s shit smelled slightly better than the other I’m not buying that.

Especially when one benefitted from the work of the other and didn’t inherit players like Jack Hillen.

Now if we want to say Lou is a good GM for the Isles. Fine. But stop flip flopping.

 

[Lame Lambert]

NYI point percentage:
Garth (06-18) = .513
Lou (18-24) = .571

Both can stink, but there is one that is better than the other.

The fact that they're even close is pathetic for Lou, given the circumstances surrounding the team in both eras.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Images of Richard Park, Andy Hilbert, and Tim Jackman enter my mind.

If you want to say they both stunk. Fine. But to say one is better than the other because one’s shit smelled slightly better than the other I’m not buying that.

Especially when one benefitted from the work of the other and didn’t inherit players like Jack Hillen.

Now if we want to say Lou is a good GM for the Isles. Fine. But stop flip flopping.

Flip flopping? Garth sucked as GM, he was good at drafting diamonds in the rough.

Ah yes, the inheritance clause. Lou inherited a team that missed the playoffs two consecutive seasons and lost their franchise player.

Lou brought stability, Barry Trotz, 2 final four runs and Ilya Sorokin. Those 3 alone are better than ANYTHING Snow did.

Lou sucks NOW because he failed to see a team who peaked / stagnated after missing the playoffs in 2022. Many of us saw it, but he didn't. At least the team wasn't a joke for many of the years during Garth's tenure.

 

[Rehabguy]

Flip flopping? Garth sucked as GM, he was good at drafting diamonds in the rough.

Ah yes, the inheritance clause. Lou inherited a team that missed the playoffs two consecutive seasons and lost their franchise player.

Lou brought stability, Barry Trotz, 2 final four runs and Ilya Sorokin. Those 3 alone are better than ANYTHING Snow did.

Lou sucks NOW because he failed to see a team who peaked / stagnated after missing the playoffs in 2022. Many of us saw it, but he didn't. At least the team wasn't a joke for many of the years during Garth's tenure.

Flip flopping is making an abrupt reversal on a policy or opinion. I don't buy this he was good then and sucks now take when it comes to Lou. I mean he’s either a good GM or he’s not.

BTW: Without Garth's gut instinct that Sorokin may sign here, a gut instinct most other GMs did not have that draft year, there would be no Sorokin. He drafted him, not Lou. This is what he's good at. But to expect perfection from a GM, even the much lauded Jack Adams, Stanley Cup winning GM as you guys put it when Lou was hired makes mistakes. Give him another 6 years and god knows what other Engvall like deals he could make.

But really I don't want to rehash this argument. My original point being it doesn't matter who is GM of this team as it won't make much of a difference. The GM is not the problem, the problem is playing in this small market where the real market is playing at Madison Square Garden- the bright lights and big city where all the name UFA's want to play.

We're never going to attract the big name players so the team has to be built primarily through the draft. If anything, the type of GM this team needs IS someone like Garth who has an eye for talent in the draft and to find potential steals like he did with Sorokin and Nelson. He's not going to always make the best decisions but I trust him to do a better job at that than Lou because as you yourself said he was very good at drafting diamonds in the rough which is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Lou has at the very least taken the best player available when given the opportunity. So I have to give him credit for that. We are not getting high draft picks and Lou packaged them away anyway so we need to draft smart.

Every GM the Islanders hire will have to deal with the same constraints Lou and Garth had to deal with as GMs of a small market team. Hiring a different GM doesn't change that.

 

[MJF]

Flip flopping is making an abrupt reversal on a policy or opinion. I don't buy this he was good then and sucks now take when it comes to Lou.

BTW: Without Garth's gut instinct that Sorokin may sign here, a gut instinct most other GMs did not have that draft year, there would be no Sorokin. He drafted him, not Lou. This is what he's good at. But to expect perfection from a GM, even the much lauded Jack Adams, Stanley Cup winning GM as you guys put it when Lou was hired makes mistakes. Give him another 6 years and god knows what other Engvall like deals he could make.

But really I don't want to rehash this argument. My original point being it doesn't matter who is GM of this team as it won't make much of a difference. The GM is not the problem, the problem is playing in this small market where the real market is playing at Madison Square Garden- the bright lights and big city where all the name UFA's want to play.

We're never going to attract the big name players so the team has to be built primarily through the draft. If anything, the type of GM this team needs IS someone like Garth who has an eye for talent in the draft and to find potential steals like he did with Sorokin and Nelson. He's not going to always make the best decisions but I trust him to do a better job at that than Lou because as you yourself said he was very good at drafting diamonds in the rough which is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Lou has at the very least taken the best player available when given the opportunity. So I have to give him credit for that. We are not getting high draft picks and Lou packaged them away anyway so we need to draft smart.

Every GM the Islanders hire will have to deal with the same constraints Lou and Garth had to deal with as GMs of a small market team. Hiring a different GM doesn't change that.

Jfc. Let it go.

 

[Steve55]

Good for 20-somethings without kids. Bad for people with school aged kids or people who get up at 5 AM for work. It’s a no-win situation. Someone will always be pissed about start times.

Oh dear

 

[Rehabguy]

Jfc. Let it go.

Just a conversation man, nothing more.