Post-Game Talk: Game XIV - Sid the Magnificent

[AuroraBorealis]

If he was "that" good NJ wouldn't have let him go. He's doing the same thing he has in NJ.

They let him go to sign Meier, because they were greedy for offense. Same goes with Severson.
Now they're paying the price, with their 30th ranked defense.

Sure, they can score their way to a playoff entry. But are they gonna win 4 rounds this way? I doubt it.

 

[dr robbie]

The ebs an flow of the hockey season so many don't understand.

We suck and are terrible

We are good again

This team is terrible, at least I'll get to watch EK for the final ride into the sunset with our core.

We are awesome look out, lord Stanley here we come.

14 games into the season, y'all are great

Obviously, the bigger picture is that we beat up on a pretty crappy team. But it's fun to be optimistic at times and enjoy the show.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

They let him go to sign Meier, because they were greedy for offense. Same goes with Severson.
Now they're paying the price, with their 30th ranked defense.

Sure, they can score their way to a playoff entry. But are they gonna win 4 rounds this way? I doubt it.

I would say missing their 2 best players in Hischer and Hughes has more to do with them losing right now that Ryan Graves/Severson but that's just me.

They will turn it around so them losing now is good for everyone

 

[Peat]

Their defense is absolute garbage this year. Not sure sitting back and going into a shell is the way.
Better to go for the throat and give them a hit to their morale imo.

This team is a better offensive team when it is committed defensively though. It generates more turnover opportunities and creates more continuous pressure from spending shift after shift in their zone.

Nine times out of ten when this team gets aggressive and decides they can outscore the other team, it backfires.

I agree 100%, plus it really seems like Letang has done a great job at stabilizing his game and accepting his new role as more of a shutdown/2-way defenseman compared to what he was in the past.

I think Pettersson-Karlsson has been better this year, but their entire top-4 has been good. The concerns I have with the defense are on the bottom pair.

To a certain extent, this is circular. Pettersson did an excellent job of helping Letang stabilise his game last year. Graves isn't Pettersson, but nor is he the shell of Dumoulin we had.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Obviously, the bigger picture is that we beat up on a pretty crappy team. But it's fun to be optimistic at times and enjoy the show.

I have always been optimistic with Sid/Geno, they are still top players in this league and any player in the NHL will tell you don't ever count them out. Adding EK was just icing on the cake.

I just find the highs lows and overreacting funny after all these years of being hockey fans. Every season has its ups and downs.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I would say missing their 2 best players in Hischer and Hughes has more to do with them losing right now that Ryan Graves/Severson but that's just me.

They will turn it around so them losing now is good for everyone

We'll see if losing 2 blue line stalwarts will have no effect in April.

 

[66-30-33]

We'll see if losing 2 blue line stalwarts will have no effect in April.

Don't worry we will be using Hellberg/Blomqvist come April.

 

[molon labe]

Watched the replay this morning. Giving thanks we can do stuff like that - in another decade/different tv deal I'd miss MOST games these days.

Sid is awesome.
Geno is so damn creative but had a overall meh game. That's okay.
EK and Letang are settling into what we want them to be. Sometimes Letang follows a good EK shift by trying to do too much, small gripe.
Smith and Eller with sneaky shifts and I really like it. I've been a critic of both before. Good games.
Rusty still looking in his vintage form and loving every shift of it.

Still annoyed with Ruhwedel's horse blinders. Dude only knows how to shoot the puck when it reaches his stick or just dump it. Maybe that's the extent of what he can do, but he had two shifts tonight that WOULD have been goals if he just passed the damn puck down low.

Graves is utterly awful on both ends of the ice. He saved a goal but otherwise brutal. It's like he's getting worse. Hopefully something happens there.

Jarry with the net neutral game. Let in a patented un-clutch backbreaker on the 2nd goal but then made some big big saves in the third. Also risked the game skating after that puck. I hated that but also wouldn't have trusted him to make that save so it's whatever.

I thought the Jackets got away with a metric F ton of interference tonight. I think if they wanted, there could have been 6 penalties a side. Calling it 4/5 to 1...that was tough. Glad we battled through that.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Graves had a crappy game yesterday, but I genuinely believe people here insist he sucks because this board needs a whipping boy, so any sort of player struggling gets amplified dramatically.

He doesn’t suck but he’s the type of player that can kill you in the playoffs. Which happened to him in NJ last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

He doesn’t suck but he’s the type of player that can kill you in the playoffs. Which happened to him in NJ last year.

He’s just not good defensively and should not be on our 2nd pairing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He doesn’t suck but he’s the type of player that can kill you in the playoffs. Which happened to him in NJ last year.

He was a -1 in 10 games last year, I'm not really sure how that's "killing" a team in the playoffs.

Not only that, but he was +5 in 10 games in 2021 and +9 in 15 games in 2020 with the Avs.

He’s just not good defensively and should not be on our 2nd pairing.

So both of the other teams where he was on their 2nd pair were wrong and Graves actually sucks? Yeah, I doubt that.

I know people fairly shit on +/-, but the dude is a career +90 in 316 games. How is that a problem in your top-4?

 

[Peat]

He doesn’t suck but he’s the type of player that can kill you in the playoffs. Which happened to him in NJ last year.

Tbf to the dude, he achieved good playoff results in Colorado, and he wouldn't have killed NJ if the actual goals had followed expected goals. And yeah, those things can be misleading, but probably not so misleading that he couldn't have expected better from his 52 xGF% than a 1-7 on the scoresheet. The GA was roughly as expected - and he had a good relative xGA - but the GF was a big fat mess. The team shot at 1.56% with him on ice, that's nuts. Yeah bad breakouts can really hurt goalscoring, but not that much!

Not that I'm super confident in him, but since you prompted me to look at his results, I'm a bit more chipper about his possible role than I was.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He doesn’t suck but he’s the type of player that can kill you in the playoffs. Which happened to him in NJ last year.

Interesting narrative.
In games 3 and 4 vs Carolina, when Graves was absent, the Devils conceded 10 goals.

Also Graves was a +3 in game 7 vs the Rangers.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Watched the replay this morning.

Still annoyed with Ruhwedel's horse blinders. Dude only knows how to shoot the puck when it reaches his stick or just dump it. Maybe that's the extent of what he can do, but he had two shifts tonight that WOULD have been goals if he just passed the damn puck down low.

I just want to highlight something about Ruhwedel.

I think he knows he Is on the low end of hockey players in the NHL and knows that Sullivan doesn't like mistakes.

So instead of adding creativity or anything that may give the opposing team a chance he does those 2 things.

Shoots/dumping the pick - His team retrieves the puck or the opposing team has more ice to skate to Jarry.

I think its that simple and honestly for 1 million dollars to the cap and playing behind 2 defensemen eating up 48 ish minutes. I think if he is limiting the harm he does for 12 is a net positive for us.

 

[molon labe]

In any other year, Graves might be okay. Now we have EK/Letang and their partners on the ice for 5/6ths of the game, Graves is going to look like this. We basically are playing two first pairs and a hold your breath pair. It's not a 3-2-1 split anymore. It's 2.5/2.5/1. That's my trying to look favorably at his overall play. In reality a lot of his bad play is when he's fresh, early. So it's hard to say with less minutes he'd be doing anything differently - and maybe that's why it's really concerning. Is he really shaping up to be the anchor for Letang?

Imagine him on Pettersson's 3 minute shift.... or save yourself the thought. He just gets exposed and makes bad plays. Worse, he doesn't seem to keep plays alive in the right areas. Idk, he's been much worse than anyone would have expected.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the thing with Graves to me is that he's clearly their #4 defenseman after Karlsson, Letang and Pettersson, so for people to be upset with his performance just makes me ask "what are you expecting out of a #4 defenseman?". He has 4 points in 14 games while being a +6 (+3 at 5v5), while not having a PDO that suggests that his on-ice goal results are unsustainable. He has been very good on the PK. What's the issue here?

This whole discussion reminds me of when people insist Letang sucks because they focus on his brain farts rather than his overall play.

 

[Icarium]

Oh, good, we are moving from explaining every Devils loss last season with Marino sucking to explaining it with Graves sucking. Progress!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think the thing with Graves to me is that he's clearly their #4 defenseman after Karlsson, Letang and Pettersson, so for people to be upset with his performance just makes me ask "what are you expecting out of a #4 defenseman?". He has 4 points in 14 games while being a +6 (+3 at 5v5), while not having a PDO that suggests that his on-ice goal results are unsustainable. He has been very good on the PK. What's the issue here?

This whole discussion reminds me of when people insist Letang sucks because they focus on his brain farts rather than his overall play.

Yea I think it's important to remind everyone he is are #4 and plays with Letang.

I felt that was the pecking order. I will say if we get a LD or Shea starts performing well. I have 0 issues giving him a shit with Letang for Graves.

Similar to the Tampa Bay Lightning. Sergachev / McDonagh was on the third pair. They needed more minutes so they made them get more minutes. It's as simple as that.

 

[molon labe]

I think the thing with Graves to me is that he's clearly their #4 defenseman after Karlsson, Letang and Pettersson, so for people to be upset with his performance just makes me ask "what are you expecting out of a #4 defenseman?". He has 4 points in 14 games while being a +6 (+3 at 5v5), while not having a PDO that suggests that his on-ice goal results are unsustainable. He has been very good on the PK. What's the issue here?

This whole discussion reminds me of when people insist Letang sucks because they focus on his brain farts rather than his overall play.

It's broken logic to say that because his gaffes have not represented negative outcomes so far -> his gaffes are unimportant. So if you won't acknowledge Graves to this point in any light other than a statistical reference, it's pointless to discuss.

Folks saying he had a rough game are totally justified in doing so. We're talking to one another, not trying to convince a computer that his 1s and 0s were wrong when they were not. He looked like shit last night, Emp. Is what it is. Certainly hope he rounds out. Is he better than Dumo last year? Sure. Does he look like a guy everyone should be excited is signed here for the long term? Not yet. Not even close. Not like he's 22-24 years old either.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's broken logic to say that because his gaffes have not represented negative outcomes so far -> his gaffes are unimportant. So if you won't acknowledge Graves to this point in any light other than a statistical reference, it's pointless to discuss.

No, the logic I'm using is that people are ignoring when he's playing well to only focus on his gaffes to say he sucks. Which is the same exact thing people have done to Letang in the past.

Yes, he had a rough game last night. But that doesn't mean he sucks and shouldn't be on the Penguins 2nd pair or he'll kill the team in the playoffs. Every single player sometimes has a rough game. Malkin had an especially rough game but no one in here is posting "Malkin's going to kill us in the playoffs".

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If the mistakes don't lead to goals against then they're whatever. His job, first and foremost, is not to concede. He's a defensive defenseman.
And he's clearly playing a brand of hockey that is allowing Letang to find his defensive form again.
Also, I see him getting no credit for his solid PK work, which is currently ranked 10th in the league.

I think my point is he is playing like the #4 he is paid to be and the people saying he is horrible for the lapses in his play are not looking at a bigger picture.


I am personally not complaining about Graves.

 

[Peat]

I felt that was the pecking order. I will say if we get a LD or Shea starts performing well. I have 0 issues giving him a shit with Letang for Graves.

Sully: "Well played Sheasy, as a special reward..."
Shea: "Yes?"
Sully: "... we're gonna give you some time with Tanger"
Shea: "Oh sweet!"
Sully: "... and that's why we've built this special bathroom with two crappers! You can be poo buddies!"
Shea: "..."
Tanger: "..."
Sully: "You earned this"
Tanger: "Do I get a say in this?"
Sully: "You want me to give this opportunity to Erik?"
Tanger: "Yes!"
Sully: "Too bad, this is part of what wearing an A around here means. Okay, I've got to go. Great work everyone, keep it pooping."
Tanger: "..."
Shea: "Why does he even call me Sheasy anyway? It's longer than my actual name!"
Tanger: "It reminds him of someone very special to him."
Shea: "Oh. So... do you need to go anytime soon?"

 

[Gurglesons]

He was a -1 in 10 games last year, I'm not really sure how that's "killing" a team in the playoffs.

Not only that, but he was +5 in 10 games in 2021 and +9 in 15 games in 2020 with the Avs.



So both of the other teams where he was on their 2nd pair were wrong and Graves actually sucks? Yeah, I doubt that.

I know people fairly shit on +/-, but the dude is a career +90 in 316 games. How is that a problem in your top-4?

The guy who played most of show career with Cale Makar, Dougie Hamilton and now Kris Letang looks good on paper?

Imagine that.

Even the one year he didn’t do that he was with Marino who always looks good on paper.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The guy who played most of show career with Cale Makar, Dougie Hamilton and now Kris Letang looks good on paper? Imagine that.

Is the point to not give good results or something? What are you trying to build a team for if putting up good results are not the intention?

Oddly enough, this has also been an argument here when people complained about Simon on Crosby's line despite that line being terrific with him there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is the point to not give good results or something?

What are you trying to build a team for if putting up good results are not the intention?

The point is Graves has been happily traded from the two teams that know how to read past the paper stats better than anyone else.

Both the fan bases were happy to see him go too.

I think there is a role for him here. I think his cap hit will be fine for it next season. Just he isn’t a player that can handle the role we are playing him in.