Post-Game Talk: Game IV Pens vs Wings: The Karlsson show

[Gurglesons]

It’s weird how Detroit can scratch a veteran player for a game and have him turn in a decent performance after and we can’t.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t understand it and neither do the 4 NHL front offices who have waived Zohorna and played him in the AHL in the last year+ (Hextall Penguins, Flames, Leafs and Dubas Penguins).

Maybe the actual NHL executives aren’t making their decisions based on points per 60 stats in crazy small sample sizes.

I already explained all of this trash to you, going over his whole career and each individual stop. Please stop recycling tired crap.

You ridicule me for using small samples, but then freely use small samples (like his 2 games in Toronto and 8 games in Calgary) to support your view, shamelessly.

You don't absorb information or consider other sides anymore. It's not even a hockey discussion. Ego and anger is in the driver's seat these days. You're just frustrated with the board and project it onto whatever user you're talking to.
So why should I even bother? It's not like you'll listen.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

was that effort, or was that that the Wings were much faster and kinda let up a tad in the third period, as most teams will do, when they secured a 3- goal lead?

The Pens weren't authoritative enough when they had the puck through 40 minutes. The urgency wasn't there on offense or defense.
They weren't committed to trying to win. They were just playing like they wanted to keep it within reach until they felt like turning it up.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Is there some galaxybrain cap shit going on with running 12F? Would be nice to lock Carter, DOC, Nieto, or Acciari in a broom closet for a game or 10.

-edit- Also Harkins, who I forgot existed until after I posted and had a feeling there was another vanilla nobody loser I was missing.

 

[Turin]

He is wrong. The team had 12 shots through 2 periods. It's not 6 or 7 minutes. It's sleepwalking.

Detroit wasn't peppering them. It was a low event game and the bottom pairing became too eventful.

 

[Headshot77]

I don't believe that for a second.


That's not how I took it. Just that his circumstances haven't seemed to improve much.

I think the circumstances have improved a lot actually. We've gone from losing some depressing and boring ass games to losing exciting and entertaining games. I am barely upset we lost! The team had fight in it and Malkin and EK looked possessed. At the end of the day 0 points is 0 points but as an entertainment product at least this year's Pens are watchable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is there some galaxybrain cap shit going on with running 12F? Would be nice to lock Carter, DOC, Nieto, or Acciari in a broom closet for a game or 10.

-edit- Also Harkins, who I forgot existed until after I posted and had a feeling there was another vanilla nobody loser I was missing.

Harkins is such a Sully type. It’s hilarious.

If one of our more offensive prospects were up and took that absolutely insane penalty they’d be a 6 minute guy for eternity.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Detroit wasn't peppering them. It was a low event game and the bottom pairing became too eventful.

It was a low-event game because the Pens lacked determination to take it to Detroit. They settled for less.
That's not a good defensive team over there.

If it was March or April, the urgency level would have been different. They are taking early games casually again.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I already explained all of this trash to you, going over his whole career and each individual stop. Please stop recycling tired crap.

You ridicule me for using small samples, but then freely use small samples (like his 2 games in Toronto and 8 games in Calgary) to support your view, shamelessly.

You don't absorb information or consider other sides anymore. It's not even a hockey discussion. Ego and anger is in the driver's seat these days. You're just frustrated with the board and project it onto whatever user you're talking to.
So why should I even bother? It's not like you'll listen.

I’m not using his 1 point in 10 games to say he’s an 8 point player per season. I’m using the fact that 4 NHL management teams have decided he’s nothing more than a fringe NHLer/AHLer to support the fact that Zohorna is nothing special. He’s a fine depth guy that would do similarly poorly as guys like O’Connor and Harkins in their usage. Me thinking Zohorna is nothing more than that has nothing to do with “anger or ego”, it aligns with what multiple NHL front offices think.

The issue with the bottom-6 deals with Sullivan having a shitty system for non-skilled players to be able to produce. This team treats the front of the net like the plague and I don’t remember the last time I saw the bottom-6 have a sustained cycle in the offensive zone. Zohorna ain’t changing any of that and frankly would do just as badly.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the circumstances have improved a lot actually. We've gone from losing some depressing and boring ass games to losing exciting and entertaining games. I am barely upset we lost! The team had fight in it and Malkin and EK looked possessed. At the end of the day 0 points is 0 points but as an entertainment product at least this year's Pens are watchable.

To be fair, last year's chaos and wild collapses were absolutely entertaining in their own hilarious way.

Harkins is such a Sully type. It’s hilarious.

If one of our more offensive prospects were up and took that absolutely insane penalty they’d be a 6 minute guy for eternity.

It's weird. I haven't watched a second of Harkins in pre-season or RS that's made me go "ohhh, okay, I see why they grabbed him".

 

[Gurglesons]

To be fair, last year's chaos and wild collapses were absolutely entertaining in their own hilarious way.

It's weird. I haven't watched a second of Harkins in pre-season or RS that's made me go "ohhh, okay, I see why they grabbed him".

It’s because he’s one of those nothing happens on the ice guys Sullivan dearly loves that people on here say “look, he plays young players”.

I’m not using his 1 point in 10 games to say he’s an 8 point player per season. I’m using the fact that 4 NHL management teams have decided he’s nothing more than a fringe NHLer/AHLer to support the fact that Zohorna is nothing special. He’s a fine depth guy that would do similarly poorly as guys like O’Connor and Harkins in their usage. Me thinking Zohorna is nothing more than that has nothing to do with “anger or ego”, it aligns with what multiple NHL front offices think.

The issue with the bottom-6 deals with Sullivan having a shitty system for non-skilled players to be able to produce. This team treats the front of the net like the plague and I don’t remember the last time I saw the bottom-6 have a sustained cycle in the offensive zone. Zohorna ain’t changing any of that and frankly would do just as badly.

Could say the same about Carter Verhaegae.

I think the more apt point is what does this team have to lose if they try Zohorna or another player in lieu of Carter or Harkins.

Not even a big Z guy.

 

[Andy99]

Detroit’s third line is Perron-Velano-Sprong and they have three goals and one assist in 4 games…Sullivan wants a third line of Glass Adams Vitale basically…it’s terrible lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It’s because he’s one of those nothing happens on the ice guys Sullivan dearly loves that people on here say “look, he plays young players”.



Could say the same about Carter Verhaegae

Death to no event hockey, in Pittsburgh and across the NHL.

Also, it's hilarious that we're at the point where a near-27 year old Harkins is a young player. Yeesh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the bottom-6 players aren’t good enough clearly, but I’m also fully at the point where I believe Sullivan’s offensive setup is not at all compatible with the kind of bottom-6 he wants. The offense requires some skill and transition game but he uses the bottom-6 like a pure defensive group. That’s fundamentally incompatible, any sort of player who has the talent to succeed offensively while also being good defensively is a top-6 forward.

I think Reilly Smith is a perfect personification of the “perfect” Mike Sullivan player but you can’t find bottom-6 versions of guys like Smith. They either can’t cut it offensively or they can’t cut it defensively.

 

[Gurglesons]

Death to no event hockey, in Pittsburgh and across the NHL.

Also, it's hilarious that we're at the point where a near-27 year old Harkins is a young player. Yeesh.

Well, the other argument is ZAR and Simon because my issue is Sullivan didn’t play young players like 5 seasons ago…

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

This team can't be just a two-line team. Two players from the top-six have to be moved down to a new third line with fresh blood rotating in the two spots they vacate. For example:

Guentzel - Crosby - xxxxx
Smith - Malkin - xxxxx
Rust - Eller - Rakell
O'Connor - Acciari - Nieto

Poulin/Puustinen/Zohorna/Nylander filling the two top spots until things click.

EXCEPT.

The Jeff Carter contract.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well, the other argument is ZAR and Simon because my issue is Sullivan didn’t play young players like 5 seasons ago…

I meant it as more of a sad look at the organization as opposed to nitpicking you calling Harkins a young player.

This team can't be just a two-line team. Two players from the top-six have to be moved down to a new third line with fresh blood rotating in the two spots they vacate. For example:

Guentzel - Crosby - xxxxx
Smith - Malkin - xxxxx
Rust - Eller - Rakell
O'Connor - Acciari - Nieto

Poulin/Puustinen/Zohorna/Nylander filling the two top spots until things click.

EXCEPT.

The Jeff Carter contract.

This seems wildly, bordering on insane, optimistic.

Team's gotta make a trade to bring somebody in. No idea how they do it, but none of those guys are full time NHLers atm, let alone full time top-6 guys.

 

[Andy99]

This team can't be just a two-line team. Two players from the top-six have to be moved down to a new third line with fresh blood rotating in the two spots they vacate. For example:

Guentzel - Crosby - xxxxx
Smith - Malkin - xxxxx
Rust - Eller - Rakell
O'Connor - Acciari - Nieto

Poulin/Puustinen/Zohorna/Nylander filling the two top spots until things click.

EXCEPT.

The Jeff Carter contract.

And then the coach has to be willing to play L3, for example, whenever to get some favorable matchups…I mean, if we had a coach who thought outside the box and made adjustments and wasn’t set in his ways, that would work lol

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

This seems wildly, bordering on insane, optimistic.

Team's gotta make a trade to bring somebody in. No idea how they do it, but none of those guys are full time NHLers atm, let alone full time top-6 guys.

In my scenario, I've only put the WBS guys in the positions they're in to hopefully be buoyed by Crosby/Malkin. What I'm more interested in is getting something like Rust - Eller - Rakell out there against weaker opposition to hopefully generate secondary scoring. Obviously, if the WBS guys can't find at least temporary chemistry on lines one and two, this is, at best, a lateral move that should be abandoned. It may be an optimistic idea, but I don't think it's all that insane to want to try to change something that virtually everyone agrees isn't working.

 

[Ryder71]

Harkins is such a Sully type. It’s hilarious.

If one of our more offensive prospects were up and took that absolutely insane penalty they’d be a 6 minute guy for eternity.

Who do we have within this organIzation who can realistically change the tide in the bottom six? Anyone you want, give me your bottom six.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In my scenario, I've only put the WBS guys in the positions they're in to hopefully be buoyed by Crosby/Malkin. What I'm more interested in is getting something like Rust - Eller - Rakell out there against weaker opposition to hopefully generate secondary scoring. Obviously, if the WBS guys can't find at least temporary chemistry on lines one and two, this is, at best, a lateral move that should be abandoned. It may be an optimistic idea, but I don't think it's all that insane to want to try to change something that virtually everyone agrees isn't working.

We agree that it's not working. We don't agree that a guy like Nylander, Puustinen or Zohorna is a legitimate option to create depth. I'd love to have the ability to ice that 3rd line, but it's not gonna happen until the team can acquire one more genuine scoring line player. /shrug

Depth is great and badly needed, but you're gonna crater the two lines this team lives and dies by in order to put Rakell and Rust on the 3rd line until Dubas figures out how to swing a trade imo.

I'd run:

Jake-Sid-Rust/Rakell
Smith-Geno-(trade)
Poulin-Eller-Rust/Rakell

And whatever trio of schlub 4th liners isn't gonna get killed every time they step on the ice. Likely means rotating guys in and out of the lineup regularly, and permanently scratching Carter.

But none of this is gonna happen. It's gonna be "man I hope Sid and/or Geno are flying tonight otherwise this team's f***ed" until Sid hangs 'em up in a couple years.

 

[Ryder71]

In my scenario, I've only put the WBS guys in the positions they're in to hopefully be buoyed by Crosby/Malkin. What I'm more interested in is getting something like Rust - Eller - Rakell out there against weaker opposition to hopefully generate secondary scoring. Obviously, if the WBS guys can't find at least temporary chemistry on lines one and two, this is, at best, a lateral move that should be abandoned. It may be an optimistic idea, but I don't think it's all that insane to want to try to change something that virtually everyone agrees isn't working.

I talked about spreading our top six guys over three lines myself. No one seems to listen to logic, Sully included.

DOC-Sid-Rust
Smith-G-Acciari
Jake-Eller/Carter-Rakell

Try this for a game or two. Jake wants a new deal, let him EARN it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who do we have within this organIzation who can realistically change the tide in the bottom six? Anyone you want, give me your bottom six.

Evergreen post from the fall of 2015.

The point should be more so. How do we try something that doesn’t result in what the bottom six and bottom D pairing is giving us right now.

 

[Ryder71]

Evergreen post from the fall of 2015.

The point should be more so. How do we try something that doesn’t result in what the bottom six and bottom D pairing is giving us right now.

I would spread out the top six over three lines (having a minimum of one of the top six guys play on the third line). and also give Ludvig a look on the bottom pair.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Everyone but EK, Letang, Sid, and Geno should be available in trade.