Post-Game Talk: Game IV Pens vs Wings: The Karlsson show

[Honour Over Glory]

Serious Q - If you're that displeased with the direction of the team and Sullivan's coaching, why spend so much energy continuing to watch? Why not take a step back and wait to see if they make a change that you approve?

Like, I hated the Rick Kehoe/Edzo years. Couldn't stand the "x-generation" crap with a bunch of nobodies. I kept tabs on the team, watched some games, but if they were getting smoked or Edzo's smugness was getting to me, I just turned it off.

Not telling anyone how to be a fan. But I've just never been one to stay as invested if watching made me that unhappy.

Haven't watched since the Hawks game and even that was just barely 2 periods worth to see the same structural issues with the system to know what a waste this continues to be. Doesn't mean I don't give a shit about the team. Complete opposite. I refuse to sit here and pretend.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think it's an issue of trying. This team's old, and guys like Sid/Geno aren't gonna be going like 110pt players every night--and the depth ain't good enough to mitigate the effects of off nights from them, nor is the coaching, or goaltending.

I don't even think Carter's half-assing it out there. He just sucks shit and has the gas tank of an 80 year old chain smoker.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We're all right there with you, but it's Wednesday and most of us love this bullshit.

Again, DOC is the least of the bottom sixs issues.

Bless you mate, give your liver a break though. I know this team will murder it since Sully won't be fired.

 

[SomeDude]

Fabien Zetterlund was one of the top NHLers in points/60 at 5v5 in a small sample size in 2021-2022, where he had a 2.93 5v5 points/60 in 160 minutes of TOI. Guess what he did in a full time role in 2022-2023? A 1.47 5v5 points/60.

Zohorna has a strong 5v5 production rate because it's an asininely small sample size, and 5v5 production rate isn't indicative of talent level to begin with.

Alex Belize was a 31 year old career AHLer who got into 31 games with Montreal last year, where he had 14 5v5 points in 338 minutes for a 5v5 points/60 of 2.49. He wasn't even retained by Montreal after the year and is playing on NYR's AHL team.

The thing about stats is they rely on those who present them on having the ability to spot the nuances of certain situational factors.

Such as 2 guys playing above their ability because they’re playing on the worst teams in the NHL who are actively trying to lose.

 

[PensPlz]

Uh, are you blaming Karlsson for the loss?

My original post was condemning the bottom 6. But if people are going to deflect with EK point totals then I have no problem reminding them of the context of those totals. 100 points on the worst team last year. And if he gets another 100 this year and the Pens miss the playoffs then what was the point?

Been watching the same team for the last 4 seasons.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'd like for the Pens to give an honest effort in their losses, instead of giving away points because of low care factor for 40 minutes.

It's not a lack of effort. It's not a lack of care.

It's a lack of attention to detail and talent.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

DOC is a microcosm of the bottom 6. Vanilla sprinkled with extra mediocrity dipped in the offensive ability of 2003 Kelly Buchberger.

And you'll continue to eat that shit sandwich he serves and like it.

: )

It's been about the same B6 for years... every year it gets worse under him.

 

[Andy99]

He’s not wrong.

Red wings speed and ability to get to pucks first was a problem for them all game…also getting and defending net front…not just for 6-7 min

It's not a lack of effort. It's not a lack of care.

It's a lack of attention to detail and talent.

And speed to pucks

 

[SomeDude]

And you'll continue to eat that shit sandwich he serves and like it.

: )

What else am I going to do? Spend time with my loving wife and family? Pssssshhhhhhh

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Red wings speed and ability to get to pucks first was a problem for them all game…also getting and defending net front…not just for 6-7 min


And speed to pucks

Which is partially attention to detail. It's not just about skating fast, but playing fast. Reading plays, anticipating player movement, marking the opposition properly.

It's what makes Karlsson so good. Yeah, he's pretty agile, but he's also just a couple moves ahead of the opposition because he anticipates so well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think it's an issue of trying. This team's old, and guys like Sid/Geno aren't gonna be going like 110pt players every night--and the depth ain't good enough to mitigate the effects of off nights from them, nor is the coaching, or goaltending.

I don't even think Carter's half-assing it out there. He just sucks shit and has the gas tank of an 80 year old chain smoker.

This team is old because this coach made it this way. When you consistently refuse to even try youth and show a massive hard on for veterans, this is what happens.

Puustinen, Hallander, etc etc deserved shots over trash like Harkins and Carter or even a useless turd like Heinen last year.

Keep blaming the GM's that have come and gone and kept doing the same which should literally tell blokes that yeah the GM will make the swing for some big trades that he feels is right but most of it is finding players that the coach wants to use and the coach only wants to use established veterans that he doesn't need to actually coach.

This team is old because of that. If you scratch Carter for a dozen games, the GM takes notice and will dump him in some way he can figure out. When you keep playing a 33yr old jobber 7-8th dman as a regular, you show the GM you really need this turd and that's also a problem.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Fabien Zetterlund was one of the top NHLers in points/60 at 5v5 in a small sample size in 2021-2022, where he had a 2.93 5v5 points/60 in 160 minutes of TOI. Guess what he did in a full time role in 2022-2023? A 1.47 5v5 points/60.

Zohorna has a strong 5v5 production rate because it's an asininely small sample size, and 5v5 production rate isn't indicative of talent level to begin with.

Players should be given chances to continue strong play, not get randomly axed because of other guys getting nepotism preference from the coaching staff. You axe them when they fail, not make assumptions that they will and do it prematurely.
Like I told you before, Z brought it defensively and possession-wise as well, so making him sound one-dimensional is crap.
The team scored at a 7:1 ratio with him on the ice. It was working. He got scored on 3 times in 248 minutes. The team scored 21.

But my words can't penetrate your brick wall mind, because you care more about ego and being right than seeing reality.

The fact of the matter is he can come up here and play average, and still be more helpful than our garbage. He doesn't have to be special or maintain his career rates. He just has to be better than Jeff Carter and whatever the hell this DOC is through 4 games.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What else am I going to do? Spend time with my loving wife and family? Pssssshhhhhhh

My focus on watching frustrating Pittsburgh sports is on the Steelers at the moment.

Also yeah spending time with my wife is mostly me sitting on the sofa with a book asking her how her day was and her endlessly scrolling tik tok. A real engaging situation, I have more meaningful convo's with my rescue, Turbo.

 

[ChrisKuuuunitz]

Fire Canada, Ruh is awful, never want to see him again

 

[vodeni]

There are legitimate things to criticize Sullivan about. But I don't get this one.

For all his faults, he's never lost the respect of the locker room, and that's because of how he manages what he says about players in public. It's managing personalities and people, which is a lot more than just heaping praise on someone.

not sure why he needs to bring Kris up when the reporter is specifically asking him about EK, and it wasn;t just once, you may think thats smart, I think its stupid by any managerial textbook, not sure that his approach has not been outdated with this group, respect or not

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Players should be given chances to continue strong play, not get randomly axed because of other guys getting nepotism preference from the coaching staff. You axe them when they fail, not make assumptions that they will and do it prematurely.
Like I told you before, Z brought it defensively and possession-wise as well, so making him sound one-dimensional is crap.
The team scored at a 7:1 ratio with him on the ice. It was working. He got scored on 3 times in 248 minutes. The team scored 21.

But my words can't penetrate your brick wall mind, because you care more about ego and being right than seeing reality.

The fact of the matter is he can come up here and play average, and still be more helpful than our garbage. He doesn't have to be special or maintain his career rates. He just has to be better than Jeff Carter and whatever the hell this DOC is through 4 games.

I hate to even say this - but I agree with you. Except for the Doc thing. He's been insanely miscast since he became a regular, Sully has no f***ing clue how to use him at all or even develop him and for Doc he got more coaching from Carter than he ever got from Sullivan. Says a lot.

 

[tom_servo]

Ah sorry mate. Don't mean to be so bitter, just hate that this coach has ruined hockey for me. I haven't seen a single minute of Pens hockey yet in the regular season outside of the 40mins of the Hawks hilarity.

I would guess the Blues win that one.

The Pens with a 2 day layoff with a coach that is clueless af for actually fixing anything, yeah I feel like we'll see them shooting out the gate and fizzle hard by the second period into the third period shenanigans of petty penalties. I'll maybe build the Rivendale lego set instead, feels more constructive and relaxing than this shit to be honest.

No no, I gave you some shit. Quite alright to respond.

Got no reason to disagree with you at the moment. Taking it game by game honestly. My cope is to believe the other teams aren't that great. But, if Dubas sees a few more losses, there could be a lot on the table.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Fire Canada, Ruh is awful, never want to see him again

We'd win more if Diontae would stop dropping the puck and Tomlin didn't keep playing Letang so much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Players should be given chances to continue strong play, not get randomly axed because of other guys getting nepotism preference from the coaching staff. You axe them when they fail, not make assumptions that they will and do it prematurely.
Like I told you before, Z brought it defensively and possession-wise as well, so making him sound one-dimensional is crap.
The team scored at a 7:1 ratio with him on the ice. It was working. He got scored on 3 times in 248 minutes. The team scored 21.

But my words can't penetrate your brick wall mind, because you care more about ego and being right than seeing reality.

The fact of the matter is he can come up here and play average, and still be more helpful than our garbage. He doesn't have to be special or maintain his career rates. He just has to be better than Jeff Carter and whatever the hell this DOC is through 4 games.

"Continue strong play"

40% of Zohorna's production came in 2020-2021, aka 3 years ago.

Zohorna is a fine depth guy, but to act like he has this ultra proven track record of performance when he has 1 NHL point since March 2022 is just bizarre. His strong production rate is a function of an incredibly small sample size, not him being this diamond in the rough player.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It's not a lack of effort. It's not a lack of care.

It's a lack of attention to detail and talent.

That too, but the skating was poor through 40 minutes. Guys started driving harder in the last 20, out of desperation.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No no, I gave you some shit. Quite alright to respond.

Got no reason to disagree with you at the moment. Taking it game by game honestly. My cope is to believe the other teams aren't that great. But, if Dubas sees a few more losses, there could be a lot on the table.

My hope in Dubas being a head strong voice of reason and component of change is waning already.

If he studied this team and is well prepared then he knows this roster is less the issue than the coach needing to be fired and he needs to make that move yesterday.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

"Continue strong play"

40% of Zohorna's production came in 2020-2021, aka 3 years ago.

Zohorna is a fine depth guy, but to act like he has this ultra proven track record of performance when he has 1 NHL point since March 2022 is just bizarre.

I never said he was ultra-proven. I said he's better than our crap and should be used. And I was right to say that.
Twist shit however you want. He's likely to outplay our trash. That's what it comes down to. Sorry you don't understand that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I never said he was ultra-proven. I said he's better than our crap and should be used. And I was right to say that.
Twist shit however you want. He's likely to outplay our trash. That's what it comes down to. Sorry you don't understand that.

I don’t understand it and neither do the 4 NHL front offices who have waived Zohorna and played him in the AHL in the last year+ (Hextall Penguins, Flames, Leafs and Dubas Penguins).

Maybe the actual NHL executives aren’t making their decisions based on points per 60 stats in crazy small sample sizes.

 

[SomeDude]

Players should be given chances to continue strong play, not get randomly axed because of other guys getting nepotism preference from the coaching staff. You axe them when they fail, not make assumptions that they will and do it prematurely.
Like I told you before, Z brought it defensively and possession-wise as well, so making him sound one-dimensional is crap.
The team scored at a 7:1 ratio with him on the ice. It was working. He got scored on 3 times in 248 minutes. The team scored 21.

But my words can't penetrate your brick wall mind, because you care more about ego and being right than seeing reality.

The fact of the matter is he can come up here and play average, and still be more helpful than our garbage. He doesn't have to be special or maintain his career rates. He just has to be better than Jeff Carter and whatever the hell this DOC is through 4 games.

The funnest thing is if/when Zohorna does come up and plays well for a game, the same poster will be spaming every thread with some stat showing how great he is. Until he gets sent back down then anyone who says a positive word will be dumb again.

 

[Andy99]

That too, but the skating was poor through 40 minutes. Guys started driving harder in the last 20, out of desperation.

was that effort, or was that that the Wings were much faster and kinda let up a tad in the third period, as most teams will do, when they secured a 3- goal lead?