Post-Game Talk: Game #III Pens vs Flames Win: 2-0 when BlindWillyMcHurt is left outside

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah agreed. People might scoff because "lol Letang bad at defenz" but he's really not. He has lapses but is tenacious and strong along the boards and has always had a knack for knocking pucks loose in board battles and moving it up ice quickly. His skating has barely taken a ding over the years either and he can still be all over the ice and recover quickly.

Yeah, and I think he has his defensive lapses is because of his focus on being the sole offense from the blueline as well. Graves can pick up some slack in transition/offensive stuff, and Karlsson's miles better. Let Letang just kinda be the defensive guy imo.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think some people had a misconception of Graves because he was the "Dumo replacement". Yes, he's replacing Dumo in the lineup, but he's not just a better version of the same thing.

Dubas/Sullivan said they thought transition was a problem last year. Obviously, looking at it now, Karlsson helps tremendously, but they signed Graves well before they knew they were going to be able to land Karlsson. I think the plan was to have Petts be the traditional defensive defenseman paired with Letang and then have Graves-Petry be a 2-way pairing where both guys are OK-but-not-great transitioning the puck in hopes it came out to 'good enough'. Once they got Karlsson, though, Karlsson needs more help defensively than Letang, so they changed their plan.

I'm expecting mistakes from Graves, but like Letang and Karlsson, just have to hope the mistakes are outweighed by the good. Historically, he's always ended up with a pretty good +/-. The 1 year he was a minus was on a pretty shitty Devils team and he was a lot less of a minus than many others on the team. Through 3 games, he's living up to that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think some people had a misconception of Graves because he was the "Dumo replacement". Yes, he's replacing Dumo in the lineup, but he's not just a better version of the same thing.

Dubas/Sullivan said they thought transition was a problem last year. Obviously, looking at it now, Karlsson helps tremendously, but they signed Graves well before they knew they were going to be able to land Karlsson. I think the plan was to have Petts be the traditional defensive defenseman paired with Letang and then have Graves-Petry be a 2-way pairing where both guys are OK-but-not-great transitioning the puck in hopes it came out to 'good enough'. Once they got Karlsson, though, Karlsson needs more help defensively than Letang, so they changed their plan.

I'm expecting mistakes from Graves, but like Letang and Karlsson, just have to hope the mistakes are outweighed by the good. Historically, he's always ended up with a pretty good +/-. The 1 year he was a minus was on a pretty shitty Devils team and he was a lot less of a minus than many others on the team. Through 3 games, he's living up to that.

Truth. We needed a legit top 4 damn. Dumo was terrible last year, and Joseph was a question mark.
It's a long-term deal which has risk, but Dumo for Graves was the surefire upgrade we needed. I'm kinda shocked Dumo still managed to get paid by someone this summer.

 

[metalan2]

Just my take of the season so far...

Hockey is meant to be enjoyable. The last few years, it was not enjoyable at all. Not because of losses. Not because of wins. It was just really lackluster effort/hockey. It wasn't worth the hours and hours of investment when life is so short.

This year - this team is enjoyable even with the flaws they have. I love the EK/Pets pairing. I love the Letang/Graves pairing. It actually makes a shit load of sense. EK65 is really so enjoyable to watch. He sees plays that 99% of defenders do not. It is amazing.

And to see G/Sid playing at the level they are... THIS is enjoyable. Too many people watch sports w/t his anxiety, stress or even anger. It's so unusual. Life is so difficult. Let entertainment be entertainment or stop watching. f*** allllllllll of stress/anxiety from watching sports.

But this season so far... it is enjoyable. Very enjoyable.

Exactly. I couldn't stand watching this team the last 2-3 seasons. Terrible product.

 

[Darren McCord]

The problem is you have to waive someone to change things up. I personally don't care. Out of the 4th line I notice Neito the most and Acciari hasn't really done anything to warrant moving to the 3rd.

Then you have Eller as the noticeable one on the 3rd.

As far as Carter goes, he's still playing with plugs which neuters all offense entirely. There's really no point in dressing him in a complete defensive role.

Their identity is complete neutralization of offense in the bottom six.

If they can go 25-12-4 in the first half I'd consider that a win with current status quo. But I feel that might be a reach if they are riding the top six that hard for the age it is. It could just as easily go 20-17-4.

So waive who you need to, but give the bottom six some life that they can play their 3rd line wings more than 10:22/27 and actually create some kind of spark. That's 4th line fodder minutes wise. The top six is gonna get run into the ground.

Ya they definitely have to waive someone. Keeping Shea and Ludvig at the detriment to the bottom 6 is stupid. Neither guy has done anything at the NHL level to warrant be so concerned about losing them. Shea will be 27 come Feb. He isnt going to turn into some stud. Wave him and bring up a forward to try new combos in the bottom 6.

Graves was directly at fault for the go ahead goal in CHI.

He’s been fine. He adds some offense we needed with Matheson’s departure and size. His cap hit is relatively small as the cap goes up. Not a huge fan, but hard to hate him. Basically Ceci 2.0 IMO.

I will give him some time before judging him entirely. He made a really nice play on Geno's goal last night to step up and intercept a pass.

I think he skates better than Ceci but he is perfect as your number 4 with that cap and play.

 

[orby]

If DOC is going to pull a disappearing act after that great preseason, I think a really good bottom 6 forward should definitely be the top priority at the deadline. Not sure who might be available...but I do know that we cannot rely on a late-30s Crosby, Letang and Malkin to carry the offense through 82 games. They need at least one more middle 6 type guy - preferably one who can score at around a 20 goal pace - before I'm convinced they're legit. It's a shame they missed out on Tatar, but them's the breaks.

 

[Darren McCord]

I thing the best thing Dubas can do for the bottom-6 is land a winger for the top-6--to push down someone like Rakell, Rust, or Smith (assuming his absurd start doesn't continue) and force a nobody like Carter, Harkins, Nieto or DOC out of the lineup.

I agree but I all think WBS will be important this year too. I am hoping that someone catches fire down there so they can bring them up. Doesnt have to be anyone in particular but their is enough depth that you hope someone jumps out.

 

[Darren McCord]

Truth. We needed a legit top 4 damn. Dumo was terrible last year, and Joseph was a question mark.
It's a long-term deal which has risk, but Dumo for Graves was the surefire upgrade we needed. I'm kinda shocked Dumo still managed to get paid by someone this summer.

I dont think there is to much risk with Graves. in 4 years he will be like 32. If he starts to decline you should have pickering to take over in the top 4. Maybe POJ continues to develop as well. The graves is your bottom pairing dmen

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I agree but I all think WBS will be important this year too. I am hoping that someone catches fire down there so they can bring them up. Doesnt have to be anyone in particular but their is enough depth that you hope someone jumps out.

They're not gonna. Maybe Zoho, but he's like a whatever 4th liner if he's anything.

Still hoping DOC finds the confidence he displayed in pre-season. Dude can be pretty pivotal if he figures his shit out, but I don't expect him to.

 

[Darren McCord]

They're not gonna. Maybe Zoho, but he's like a whatever 4th liner if he's anything.

Still hoping DOC finds the confidence he displayed in pre-season. Dude can be pretty pivotal if he figures his shit out, but I don't expect him to.

I think any of Poulin, Zoho, Nylander, Puustinen, White or heck even Gruden could pop off for one year.

If Tom Kuhnhackl can become a player for two years. Then any of these guys could lol. You dont need a player to emerge as a great top 6 player. You just need someone to be a legit bottom 6 guy.

 

[Andy99]

If DOC is going to pull a disappearing act after that great preseason, I think a really good bottom 6 forward should definitely be the top priority at the deadline. Not sure who might be available...but I do know that we cannot rely on a late-30s Crosby, Letang and Malkin to carry the offense through 82 games. They need at least one more middle 6 type guy - preferably one who can score at around a 20 goal pace - before I'm convinced they're legit. It's a shame they missed out on Tatar, but them's the breaks.

Patrick Kane is out there lol…

 

[Big Poppa Pump]

DeSmith just had 37 saves on 40 shots last night. The reason that it made sense to trade him was never that he's a bad goalie.

LOL, that was 1 game for Vancouver.....

I watched him play 135 games as a Pen.......trust me, he's a below average backup.

Kudos to Dubas for getting rid of the bum and bringing in Ned.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Ya they definitely have to waive someone. Keeping Shea and Ludvig at the detriment to the bottom 6 is stupid. Neither guy has done anything at the NHL level to warrant be so concerned about losing them. Shea will be 27 come Feb. He isnt going to turn into some stud. Wave him and bring up a forward to try new combos in the bottom 6.



I will give him some time before judging him entirely. He made a really nice play on Geno's goal last night to step up and intercept a pass.

I think he skates better than Ceci but he is perfect as your number 4 with that cap and play.

He absolutely gets a long leash. Defense is the hardest thing to pick up on for a new team. I don't dislike the guy. My whole point of even bringing him up is that I believe him and Letang will have games together where your banging your head off the wall and using a lot of CAPS, just because I don't believe they exactly mesh well as partners.

We will see

 

[Big Poppa Pump]

he was very good last night in Edmonton, won them the game

LOL, 1 game as a canuck doesn't erase the 135 games I seen him as a Pen.

Below average curtain jerking backup.

Kudos to Dubas for getting rid of him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think any of Poulin, Zoho, Nylander, Puustinen, White or heck even Gruden could pop off for one year.

If Tom Kuhnhackl can become a player for two years. Then any of these guys could lol. You dont need a player to emerge as a great top 6 player. You just need someone to be a legit bottom 6 guy.

Kuhnhackl was a pretty highly regarded prospect when he was drafted, and until he absolutely f***ed up his knee. He had as much or more skill than any of the guys toiling away in WBS imo.

Even when he did carve out a place at the NHL level, he was a pretty nondescript 4th liner.

I don't think it's anything special to be a 4th liner, but the coach feels different. /shrug

Nylander's a nothingmancer. Puustinen seems to be a pure sniper who can't skate well enough or doesn't have the hockey IQ to get in spots to utilize his shot. Poulin's gonna get a year to settle down after his off-ice troubles last year, and I'm guessing he's going to have to adjust to being an effective player at wing, as he's not getting a center spot in Pittsburgh. Zoho's pretty much Kuhn-tier, imo. A borderline AHL nobody who can play at the NHL level in a pinch but probably isn't a fixture. I would say Gruden is an afterthought, even among those guys, and I'm not quite sure what to make of White tbh.

 

[Factorial]

How many games will Harkins get to prove he belongs in the NHL? 10? Not impressed with him so far. Then they put him on waivers and the Sens can take him back.

 

[Gurglesons]

How many games will Harkins get to prove he belongs in the NHL? 10? Not impressed with him so far. Then they put him on waivers and the Sens can take him back.

Jets*

 

[Ryder71]

If people think the answers are down in WB I think they're gonna be pretty disappointed. Zohorna might be a minor upgrade, but there's no real answer down there in the scheme of things.

I just hope they give Ludvig a game.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kuhnhackl was a pretty highly regarded prospect when he was drafted, and until he absolutely f***ed up his knee. He had as much or more skill than any of the guys toiling away in WBS imo.

Even when he did carve out a place at the NHL level, he was a pretty nondescript 4th liner.

I don't think it's anything special to be a 4th liner, but the coach feels different. /shrug

Nylander's a nothingmancer. Puustinen seems to be a pure sniper who can't skate well enough or doesn't have the hockey IQ to get in spots to utilize his shot. Poulin's gonna get a year to settle down after his off-ice troubles last year, and I'm guessing he's going to have to adjust to being an effective player at wing, as he's not getting a center spot in Pittsburgh. Zoho's pretty much Kuhn-tier, imo. A borderline AHL nobody who can play at the NHL level in a pinch but probably isn't a fixture. I would say Gruden is an afterthought, even among those guys, and I'm not quite sure what to make of White

Kuhn was not close to Poulin as a prospect..

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Kuhn was not close to Poulin as a prospect..

Before Kuhn's knee got ruined he was a better than PPG prospect in Junior, pretty similar to Poulin. /shrug

I think you think far too highly of Poulin, tbh. But it's also true that I probably think too low of the guy as a prospect.

 

[Gurglesons]

Before Kuhn's knee got ruined he was a better than PPG prospect in Junior, pretty similar to Poulin. /shrug

I think you think far too highly of Poulin, tbh. But it's also true that I probably think too low of the guy as a prospect.

Not really. Kuhnhackl came into the OHL at 19 where as Poulin was a top tier offensive talent in the Q at 17.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Rust wasn't considered a terrific prospect either and now he's "The Ultimate Penguin™"

Very often when it comes to developing players it's putting them in the best positions to succeed and simple opportunity. I'm just not as down about what the Penguins have on the farm as others for that reason. Though I also don't think most of them will get much of a legit chance, either. Sullivan was a different coach, then.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not really. Kuhnhackl came into the OHL at 19 where as Poulin was a top tier offensive talent in the Q at 17.

Regardless, Kuhn had 15pts in 42 games in his first NHL action, so Poulin's got some catching up before he even hits Kuhn's meager NHL footprint. /shrug

We'll never know for sure because Kuhn's knee injury, but he was definitely well regarded as a prospect. About the same as Poulin's been the last few years imo.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

If DOC is going to pull a disappearing act after that great preseason, I think a really good bottom 6 forward should definitely be the top priority at the deadline. Not sure who might be available...but I do know that we cannot rely on a late-30s Crosby, Letang and Malkin to carry the offense through 82 games. They need at least one more middle 6 type guy - preferably one who can score at around a 20 goal pace - before I'm convinced they're legit. It's a shame they missed out on Tatar, but them's the breaks.

Getting a guy at the deadline to upgrade your 3rd/4th lines or your #6 D is a lot more manageable than needing someone in the top 6.

 

[cygnus47]

It’s just been the flubbed clears with graves. I haven’t had any issues with the rest of his game, but he really can’t seem to clear the puck when it’s on his stick. I haven’t watched him enough to know if that’s just him or if he’s gripping the stick a bit too hard, but it’s a big flaw.