GDT: Game 9: Sharks @ Vegas 7pm NBCSCA

[Alaskanice]

I loved the "Gushchin has been promoted" discourse before the game.

He gets 10 minutes lol.

He’s not doing much.

This was supposed to be the year we see some improvement. I'm not ready to fire Grier yet because this was a massive teardown but if we are still tearing down, I'm not sure if that is great.

The season has just started.

 

[Anomie2029]

All Grier has shown is that he’s good at putting a bad team on the ice. That restocked the prospect pool.

But this was meant to be a step forward and he recruited more players (Toffoli) aside that had the same MO as the players from last season. Hell, he replaced the coach with a member of the coaching staff from last season.

Doing the same thing and expecting different results…

 

[CanadienShark]

He’s not doing much.


The season has just started.

And we haven't won a single game. Were on pace for a record awful season yet again.

 

[Anomie2029]

He’s not doing much.

He’s had the 4th highest expected goals per 60 on the team.

He’s 3rd of best sharks forward in Corsi, and 2nd in Fenwick, 3rd in on-ice expected goals percentage

In terms of defence, when hes on the ice the Sharks have conceded the fewest high danger chances per 60 (for forwards).

All this whilst he has started his shifts in the defensive zone more than the other two zones.

He has earned the ice time.

 

[OrrNumber4]

This is the hard part. Grier has done a commendable job with the teardown and the amateur scouting department is doing a good job. The pro scouting department on the other hand, hasn't created much confidence in their ability to identify and acquire good players.

The pro scouting has been fine aside from the issue with the defense.

Curse on DW for wasting 2-3 years.

I'm OK with the forwards and the plan in net, and I can understand why Grier had to make compromises there. But the Sharks have one top-4 defenseman—one experienced player who can move the puck, an absolute must-have in today's game.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Well, we do have an NHL-ready LD prospect waiting in the wings.

And I'm not talking about Mukhamadullin, no, this guy's name rhymes with Pooka Anchovy.

PF has been advocating for his call-up since the last game and I'm leaning toward agreing with him.

 

[drunksage]

SNOG announcement​

I'm a bit surprised that nobody got the SNOG, but then again I certainly wasn't expecting 3 goals either.

#	Date / Opponent​	SNOG Winner(s)​	Result​
1	Oct. 10 vs Blues	none	Blues 5-4 OT
2	Oct. 12 vs Ducks	none	Ducks 2-0
3	Oct. 15 at Stars	weastern bias	Stars 3-2 SO
4	Oct. 17 at Blackhawks	weastern bias	Blackhawks 4-2
5	Oct. 18 at Jets	none	Jets 8-3
6	Oct. 20 vs Avalanche	none	Avalanche 4-1
7	Oct. 22 at Ducks	Timo Time	Ducks 3-1
8	Oct. 24 at Kings	Friday	Kings 3-2
9	Oct. 26 at VGK	none	VGK 7-3

Rank	2024-25 SNOG standings​	# of SNOGs
1.	weastern bias	2
T-2.	Friday, Timo Time	1

------

Update on semi-OT parking situation: signs at gate at Aria self-parking for $35 but managed to get in and out for free with MGM Rewards card of a sufficient tier. This particular card may not have belonged to me though, as my own has somehow been rejected from multiple MGM properties even during non-event hours.

 

[Lebanezer]

The pro scouting has been fine aside from the issue with the defense.

Curse on DW for wasting 2-3 years.

I'm OK with the forwards and the plan in net, and I can understand why Grier had to make compromises there. But the Sharks have one top-4 defenseman—one experienced player who can move the puck, an absolute must-have in today's game.

The defense falls under the pro scouting department, and that in and of itself brings down the entire squad. If they can’t make the moves to make the defense competitive then they’re struggling with team building.

 

[Star Platinum]

Look up the chain. Who let things linger for so long before actually turning over the GM position? How many seasons did that delay put us behind?

Truth be told, if health issues hadn't forced him to retire, I believe Doug Wilson would still be here today. He was teflon with this franchise for years because of one trade that he lucked into winning ridiculously well.

 

[timorous me]

He’s not doing much.

It's been really weird, I have to say, how you're always so positive about every player, even the ones who absolutely don't deserve it, yet with Gushchin this year you've been relentlessly critical or negative. I don't get it--it's like other people being positive like you are has made you go the other direction.

It's not like he's even been bad, as @Anomie2029 pointed out; it's just that the points aren't coming (it's like with Will Smith, whom you've been supporting--which I'm right there with you on--except Gushchin has actually been better by those advanced stats, with the caveat that it's easier being a young winger than a young center).

 

[TheBeard]

If the goal was developing the kids then hiring a 36 year old rookie coach to spearhead that movement was the wrong choice. If the goal was to win more games then perhaps hiring a 36 year old rookie coach to spearhead that movement was the wrong choice.

I like War but regardless of the talent on the team, the reason we’re winless 9 games in is because the team is consistently making bad decisions whether mental or physical. And that falls squarely on the coach. We have basically one rookie in the lineup so it’s not like these are guys who are just getting their feet wet. The players just aren’t responding to whatever he’s doing.

do think part of the panic is that losing is habitual and when you get into a rut like this it becomes exponentially harder to get out. They looked pretty good the first few games of the season but every loss is taking a toll and everyone is gripping their stick (except Granlund who has decided to quietly become a star).

And this is where a competent coaching staff if integral. It’s why Edmonton fired what’s his name and brought in Knoblough and they immediately responded. I’m not necessarily advocating firing war now or in the future but he is very much a big part of why the team is struggling to just show any signs of life as any.

 

[Shark Finn]

Watching the highlights of this one was just about the worst way to start a Sunday morning. At least the Kn*ghts didn't win another Cup in this one!

 

[DeepBlueSea408]

If the goal was developing the kids then hiring a 36 year old rookie coach to spearhead that movement was the wrong choice. If the goal was to win more games then perhaps hiring a 36 year old rookie coach to spearhead that movement was the wrong choice.

I like War but regardless of the talent on the team, the reason we’re winless 9 games in is because the team is consistently making bad decisions whether mental or physical. And that falls squarely on the coach. We have basically one rookie in the lineup so it’s not like these are guys who are just getting their feet wet. The players just aren’t responding to whatever he’s doing.


And this is where a competent coaching staff if integral. It’s why Edmonton fired what’s his name and brought in Knoblough and they immediately responded. I’m not necessarily advocating firing war now or in the future but he is very much a big part of why the team is struggling to just show any signs of life as any.

I totally agree... 9 games in and I still see a team with no identity or system that's capable of playing winning hockey.

 

[The411]

This was supposed to be the year we see some improvement. I'm not ready to fire Grier yet because this was a massive teardown but if we are still tearing down, I'm not sure if that is great.

Based on what exactly? The draft was great but only Celebrini was ready to make an impact. All the other draft picks aren’t ready yet.

The defense is still made up of 3rd pairing and 7th/8th defensemen.

The offense is made up of mostly bottom 9 guys and 13th-15th forwards.

This team still needs a lot of players and they will be bad for at least a few more years.

 

[Cas]

Truth be told, if health issues hadn't forced him to retire, I believe Doug Wilson would still be here today. He was teflon with this franchise for years because of one trade that he lucked into winning ridiculously well.

Frankly, I believe the health issues were just an excuse to avoid explicitly firing Wilson.

 

[weastern bias]

Who built this mess? Can probably start there

His name is Doug Wilson, I agree he should be fired

This was supposed to be the year we see some improvement.

There is no reason to have expected improvement this year, especially with the only potential impact addition to the team having only played one game, fans just got ahead of themselves on the turnaround thinking a lotto win would make the worst team of the salary cap era instantly competitive

The season has just started.

We're over 10 percent of the way through the season with 2 point in the standings and 0 wins, it's not that early anymore

Last year we tied the all time record for losses to start a season at 11, we're 2 games away from matching that mark and 3 away from breaking it outright, it's not unreasonable to be concerned

I understand why people are upset, they want their team to win, it simply was an unrealistic expectation that this team wouldn't be terrible again this year, there's been barely any substantive changes to a roster that led to one of the worst seasons of all time just last year

Our most important players are TEENAGERS, people need to calm down and grow some patience

 

[Jargon]

If I was Grier I would aggressively be trying to find a way to reshape this D. Get Fabbro, get Liljgren, bring up Cagnoni, I don’t care what it takes but bring in guys who can pass and skate the puck out of our zone. That’s how we start fixing this mess.

 

[coooldude]

He’s had the 4th highest expected goals per 60 on the team.

He’s 3rd of best sharks forward in Corsi, and 2nd in Fenwick, 3rd in on-ice expected goals percentage

In terms of defence, when hes on the ice the Sharks have conceded the fewest high danger chances per 60 (for forwards).

All this whilst he has started his shifts in the defensive zone more than the other two zones.

He has earned the ice time.

Surely if you are this thoughtful about Gush's advanced stats, you can also see that this team is playing better than last year's team (I did an advanced stats dive and we're playing like 5th worst at 5v5). Not miles better, but definitely better. Last few games have felt bad, and results are bad, but that was expected. We were going to be bottom 3 at best, and we've played the whole season without our 18 year old best player.

I totally agree... 9 games in and I still see a team with no identity or system that's capable of playing winning hockey.

I see a team that has a better system than last year and is trying to establish an identity, continues to fight hard in games they could easily give up in, but is hamstrung by having about 3 players who deserve to see top 6 minutes and only 2 D who deserve to see second pair minutes on a decent NHL team. You can only put so much on the coach when the roster is poor, and you can only expect a GM to turn around a roster /franchise on the years-to-half-decades timeframe, not the months timeframe.

Broken record - this rebuild is going well and this sharks team will still finish dead last or extremely close to it, with 55-65 points being the likeliest outcome. Buckle up everyone.

 

[CHALUPA]

Surely if you are this thoughtful about Gush's advanced stats, you can also see that this team is playing better than last year's team (I did an advanced stats dive and we're playing like 5th worst at 5v5). Not miles better, but definitely better. Last few games have felt bad, and results are bad, but that was expected. We were going to be bottom 3 at best, and we've played the whole season without our 18 year old best player.

I see a team that has a better system than last year and is trying to establish an identity, continues to fight hard in games they could easily give up in, but is hamstrung by having about 3 players who deserve to see top 6 minutes and only 2 D who deserve to see second pair minutes on a decent NHL team. You can only put so much on the coach when the roster is poor, and you can only expect a GM to turn around a roster /franchise on the years-to-half-decades timeframe, not the months timeframe.

Broken record - this rebuild is going well and this sharks team will still finish dead last or extremely close to it, with 55-65 points being the likeliest outcome. Buckle up everyone.

Could you shed some details on the Sharks’ breakout strategy? My untrained eye test sees that as one of big reasons they couldn’t shift the momentum mid game. They don’t get much movement from supporting forwards exiting the zone, on both structures and unstructured breakouts. Seems like they’re trying to spread the ice and stretch a pass out to a wing past the red line.

Is this something that we need to do due to personnel?

 

[Alaskanice]

It's been really weird, I have to say, how you're always so positive about every player, even the ones who absolutely don't deserve it, yet with Gushchin this year you've been relentlessly critical or negative. I don't get it--it's like other people being positive like you are has made you go the other direction.

It's not like he's even been bad, as @Anomie2029 pointed out; it's just that the points aren't coming (it's like with Will Smith, whom you've been supporting--which I'm right there with you on--except Gushchin has actually been better by those advanced stats, with the caveat that it's easier being a young winger than a young center).

I see your point. Maybe this board is getting to me.

 

[TheBeard]

see a team that has a better system than last year and is trying to establish an identity, continues to fight hard in games they could easily give up in, but is hamstrung by having about 3 players who deserve to see top 6 minutes and only 2 D who deserve to see second pair minutes on a decent NHL team. You can only put so much on the coach when the roster is poor, and you can only expect a GM to turn around a roster /franchise on the years-to-half-decades timeframe, not the months timeframe

The team has enough talent to not look as awful as they do. I remember saying this last year after the two ten goal games but I don’t care about the wins and losses, but I want to see an actual team out there. This isn’t just 20 guys playing their first ever games. These are mostly vets and decent NHLers with some good talent sprinkled into the top. Right now there’s no cohesion, no communication, no chemistry whatsoever. I don’t see players talking. I don’t see adjustments.

If you have a good coach that has time to properly prepare a team, even a team of all 4th liners shouldn’t be down 3-0 before registering your first shot on goal. Slow starts are almost always a product of bad preparation.

 

[weastern bias]

The team has enough talent to not look as awful as they do.

They literally do not

Think about it, with Celebrini out of the lineup how many legitimate 1st line quality play drivers does this team have? Because the answer is zero

Every single player on the roster is playing in a lineup spot that is over their head and the cascading effect is that this is not an NHL caliber roster

Having zero first liners and zero top pair defenseman is so debilitating, not only because we are at a disadvantage when other teams ice their best players, but also because everyone else is shifted into a role they are not suited for, it is unreasonable to expect even baseline competence if we aren't icing any legitimate top-end talent on a given night

Even last year's team had Hertl who could still approximate that level of play, right now we have no one, the performances on display should have been expected

 

[TheBeard]

They literally do not

Think about it, with Celebrini out of the lineup how many legitimate 1st line quality play drivers does this team have? Because the answer is zero

Every single player on the roster is playing in a lineup spot that is over their head and the cascading effect is that this is not an NHL caliber roster

Having zero first liners and zero top pair defenseman is so debilitating, not only because we are at a disadvantage when other teams ice their best players, but also because everyone else is shifted into a role they are not suited for, it is unreasonable to expect even baseline competence if we aren't icing any legitimate top-end talent on a given night

Even last year's team had Hertl who could still approximate that level of play, right now we have no one, the performances on display should have been expected

For the most part the difference between top lines and bottom lines is offensive ability. Top lines are who scores, bottom line does the dirty work. Right now we’re throwing out 3 checking lines (for lack of a better word) which means we should theoretically be better than giving up on average close to 5 goals a game. We’ve also played (and lost) to teams that have more or less the same talent. The other bottom feeders that made us look absolutely silly. I didn’t expect the offense to be potent by any means but the defensive structure even with the vets brought in should be far, FAR better than this.

Ironically, for all the flack they get, Ruuta and Mario are somehow the only positive +- players on the team.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I guess the advanced stats say otherwise, but I have to laugh when I see comments saying this team is better than last year's team, when looking at the biggest stat of all, they are about on par as last years team. They are still being outshot, outplayed, and they haven't won a game yet. Heck, they have a -21 goal differential and going into last night they didn't get an even strength goal in 3 consecutive games. Yeah they have been hamstrung by injuries, but I'm really hoping they win a game or two by Thanksgiving. October is almost over and they have maybe 2 chances (Ruling out the Kings game) to make that happen.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

They literally do not

Think about it, with Celebrini out of the lineup how many legitimate 1st line quality play drivers does this team have? Because the answer is zero

Every single player on the roster is playing in a lineup spot that is over their head and the cascading effect is that this is not an NHL caliber roster

Having zero first liners and zero top pair defenseman is so debilitating, not only because we are at a disadvantage when other teams ice their best players, but also because everyone else is shifted into a role they are not suited for, it is unreasonable to expect even baseline competence if we aren't icing any legitimate top-end talent on a given night

Even last year's team had Hertl who could still approximate that level of play, right now we have no one, the performances on display should have been expected

I thought the same thing, except I've changed my mind, or actually William Eklund changed it. This kid has great acceleration and is a powerful skater. Coach is just not piecing anything together.