GDT: GAME 79: CAPS @ HABS | Meatloaf | Thurs., April 6th, 2023, 7:00PM -- TSN2, RDS, NBCSWA, TSN690, 98.5 FM

[L4br3cqu3]

I think that seals the will gurianov be retained question.

Pretty sure that very minor situation (like, who cares about warmups, really, just f***ing PR, that's it) isn't remotely close to what will seal his deal with the Habs, his subpar on-ice play does.

 

[Canadienna]

Having lived in Western China and known someone who was actively part of the Tibetan Liberation Movement, I will say that North Americans have zero understanding or respect for the precarity that people who openly oppose these kinds of governments (even in what we may see as small or trivial matters) live in.

What an ignorant comment.

I've lived all over the world. I'd never make a claim about an entire continent like you have.

Sounds like you have some growing up to do.

 

[Captain97]

We actually didn't need to provide them with non trans because they are female. Trans female or female, they are female, and if they had an issue with that still - they can swim somewhere else.

Religion is a protected class but often times it comes in to conflict with other human rights, as it did in this case, in that situation, who a person is takes precedent over what religion someone chooses to worship.

I'm not going to argue this here cause it isn't the place. But the word female has a scientific definition that is separate from the trans conversation.

You can be a trans woman not a trans female.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm not going to argue this here cause it isn't the place. But the word female has a scientific definition that is separate from the trans conversation.

You can be a trans woman not a trans female.

Either way - you can't discriminate against someone based on their religion.. but regardless of your religious belief, your religious beliefs do not give you the right to discriminate against another protected class.

Ultimately that's what I was getting at. I think we've reached the natural conclusion of this debate and I appreciate that we were able to have it respectfully.

 

[Rapala]

Either way - you can't discriminate against someone based on their religion.. but regardless of your religious belief, your religious beliefs do not give you the right to discriminate against another protected class.

Ultimately that's what I was getting at. I think we've reached the natural conclusion of this debate and I appreciate that we were able to have it respectfully.

I agree if it isn't a two way street you need to be reassessing your values religious or otherwise.

 

[Gillings]

Gurianov can GTFO for all I care.

If a player can't have an opposing opinion on a matter.. aren't you just part of the problem? Supporting people in their views is supposed to be the core of PRIDE yet people who don't support it publicly are ridiculed... hmmmm

 

[Gillings]

the “my family is in danger if i wear the jersey” is the most obvious load of crap i’ve ever seen lol

What do you think the whole war is really about.. ?? because it isn't about russia wanting land in ukraine.

 

[Captain97]

Either way - you can't discriminate against someone based on their religion.. but regardless of your religious belief, your religious beliefs do not give you the right to discriminate against another protected class.

Ultimately that's what I was getting at. I think we've reached the natural conclusion of this debate and I appreciate that we were able to have it respectfully.

Agreed, and I just want to clarify. I have no issue referring to a transperson by preferred name/gender. My biggest issue is the blurred liens definition of now female vs women vs trans etc.

And I think we need hard definitions on these terms in society before this will ever actually be settled.

 

[MXD]

If a player can't have an opposing opinion on a matter.. aren't you just part of the problem? Supporting people in their views is supposed to be the core of PRIDE yet people who don't support it publicly are ridiculed... hmmmm

Oh, he can.

But :
- He's putting his person ahead of the team. He may, or not, have valid reasons to do so, and it's not our place to judge this
- He shouldn't even be dressed every night in the first place, or at least not automatically like a Suzuki or something.

 

[Gillings]

Oh, he can.

But :
- He's putting his person ahead of the team
- He shouldn't even be dressed every night in the first place, or at least not automatically like a Suzuki or something.

Agree on he shouldn't be dressed everynight.. he has looked disinterested.. but yet again so have alot of our players.

He is ALLOWED to put his needs ahead of the PR team.. THE NHL makes enough money and power off of players beating themselves up night in and out.. He deserves a choice and so do they all.

 

[MXD]

Agree on he shouldn't be dressed everynight.. he has looked disinterested.. but yet again so have alot of our players.

He is ALLOWED to put his needs ahead of the PR team.. THE NHL makes enough money and power off of players beating themselves up night in and out.. He deserves a choice and so do they all.

The team decided to hold a Pride Night and Gurianov was totally aware of this. He could have voluntarily withdrawn himself from the lineup, thus creating absolutely minimal fuss. Which is the least a fringe player like himself can do.

Again, I'm not saying anything regarding the merits of the reasons that were. They may, or not, be genuine. That's not up to me to decide

 

[CDN24]

He's been slowly morphing into his role model haha

Where is Brooksie when you need him

 

[Rapala]

Intolerance is one of the biggest challenges humans have to overcome and it touches everyone of us to some extent whether we care to admit it or not.
I'd love to hear from the person who hasn't been intolerant in any situation ever. If you are on this board don't PM me because I already know it isn't you.

 

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

RHP and Gally can piss off

 

[PhysicX]

Gurianov can GTFO for all I care.

Shows your ignorance of how the Russian government & the FSB operate.

Gurianov can GTFO for his on-ice play, but I will not condemn him for this. My parents lived in Soviet-era Poland, and Russia is a different beast.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Intolerance is one of the biggest challenges humans have to overcome and it touches everyone of us to some extent whether we care to admit it or not.
I'd love to hear from the person who hasn't been intolerant in any situation ever. If you are on this board don't PM me because I already know it isn't you.

The Paradox of Tolerance.

Let's just say there's a lot of intolerance in this thread.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

the “my family is in danger if i wear the jersey” is the most obvious load of crap i’ve ever seen lol

Panarin took a leave from the Rangers and had a whole story made up implicating him in a sexual assault charge all because he liked a tweet Putin's political rival.

While it may sound absurd to us, their concern is entirely warranted. Russia is a very different Country than Canada or the US.

 

[Mackiaveli]

sure i’m very cynical that any of them truly fear anything tho

Yeah, I mean it's tough to say - I would think, at least logically, that it is far more indicting to be wearing the "Support the Troops" jersey given the history between the US and Russia militarily speaking... I also see players like Malkin and Ovi support Pride; is this because they are bigger figures and thus are 'protected'? Panarin is the one case where I understand the security risk when he spoke out against Putin and in support of Navalny

Is it? We have religious freedom in the west and many religious say homosexuality is a sin? So you are telling people that they must act against their God. (BTW I'm not religious and am in favour of gay marriage from a governmental union pov)

Wear the pride jersey great, don't wear the pride jersey great. Why is it an issue if someone's religious beliefs disagree with your view of the world.

On top of that the pride flag has become a political symbol of a movement that has many different beliefs. If you had asked me to wear a pride item 10 years ago I'd have had no issues but if you asked me to wear it today I'd have to think because of how political parts of the movement have become. And some of the groups it now represents/has represented over the past 10 years.

We do have religious freedom, but the primary principle of eurocentrism (from the perspective of the europeans) was to 'advance' the quality of life. Progressiveness is inherently innate to the development of the West, and a failure to do so means we are unfortunately forgetting what made us a dominant, socially and morally advanced society (you know, minus all the stuff that we did to the Indigenous people)

As to the "against their god" comment - this is what I would call selective moralism (or religious selectivity) ... the bible also says a lot of horrendous things about 'families' ... I am not going to repeat them because I don't feel like opening that can of worms but reading what the bible says about the husband/wife relationship as an example... woof.

I think the big arguing point is that "religious beliefs" is a weak thinly veiled excuse for homophobia. There are so many examples to point to for this hypocrisy from the player's end (they play on Sundays, as an example) as well as the organizational end (the catholic church is one of the most infamous institutions for distributing physical, emotional and sexual abuse, especially towards young boys - but then they had 'conversion therapy')

The JERSEY itself is just about making people feel welcome. Until 10-15 years ago, being homosexual was a taboo thing that people felt the need to hide about themselves; one of the most important defining characteristics to their existence was something they felt the need to mute. We have ZERO openly homosexual players in professional hockey. This is a systemic problem, regardless of if people want to recognize or acknowledge it. I could write a pretty lengthy post on the homophobia in hockey (hazing rituals from the 2000s were all inherently homophobic in nature)

I would agree the pride flag has some political symbolism at some capacity which is almost inevitable with something that is politically divisive. I think the counter-point to this is why has homosexuality become a political talking point? The only reason is because people have chosen to make it a divisive issue to begin with; trans issues are now following in that same footstep. It shouldn't be a problem, but people's refusal to allow people to live their lives has become why this is a back-and-forth.

I would say wearing pride ten years ago even would be a huge outlier. People would call you some pretty awful names, assume you were gay (which is, to some people a bad thing apparently) etc etc ... but now adays, wearing pride in my opinion just means you are an ALLY to those communities.

FWIW as a disclaimer I am a straight white guy so I am speaking from a recognizable place of privilege. When I was in my late teens, I thought transgenderism was mental illness (although I've always supported gay marriage and have never thought anything negative towards gay people) ... it took meeting trans people, and hearing their experiences (both internal and external) to truly empathize and understand that my opinions and beliefs on this issue were jaded because I chose to dismiss something I did not understand - similarly to how people tried to "pray the gay away" at one point in very recent memory.

At the end of the day, whether athletes choose to wear a Pride Jersey or have Pride Night has >literally zero impact< on my life. But, I do know that for the communities that those jerseys and nights represent it is indescribably important to have that recognition, that support, and that inclusiveness. It's like how you see stories of how much characters like Moana or Tiana inspire young girls who get to see themselves in a Disney princess instead of every princess being a white girl. I think that if God (or whatever religious entity you worship) existed, he would care a lot more about how you choose to make other people's experience on this earth better, and a lot less about how strictly you follow some random religious scripture. Being a good person is a choice, and when it's a difficult choice it matters all the more. Regardless of your religious or political affiliation, refusing to wear a rainbow coloured jersey to support the LGBTQ community is just shortsighted and selfish - and while EVERYONE has the RIGHT to make that choice, hiding behind religion as an 'excuse' is simply that - an excuse.

P.S - respect to you for choosing to grapple with a pretty difficult topic in a way that does not display outright bigotry; most people are either very pro or very against and there are very few people trying to find their place in the middle - especially on the internet. Kudos to you

 

[PhysicX]

Was he murdered? I haven't followed the story much but from the little I read there was nothing about a murder, only that he's been found drowned.

In Russia, "certain" people disappear or die in mysterious fashion. You name it, it has happened and/or is still ongoing in that part of the world.

 

[Mackiaveli]

all because he liked a tweet Putin's political rival

Yes, but also no.

He was, and has been, vocally against Putin and the government of Russia - he has also vocally and out rightly supported Navalny. This is not as simple as "liking a tweet" - he used his platform as a star in North America to shine light on the political dissent that many Russians feel but are too afraid to speak on.

 

[PavelBrendl]

What an ignorant comment.

I've lived all over the world. I'd never make a claim about an entire continent like you have.

Sounds like you have some growing up to do.

I mean, I am North American and have lived in North America most of my life. I maintain that anyone who hasn’t experienced living under totalitarian rule cannot truly understand what it’s like. My family members who immigrated here from Russia and other ex-Soviet states would agree.

If that makes us ignorant or in need of growing up, well what can ya do.

 

[The Real Timo]

You know people are entitled to have different opinions.

Not in todays woke run world.

 

[GrandBison]

Agree on he shouldn't be dressed everynight.. he has looked disinterested.. but yet again so have alot of our players.

He is ALLOWED to put his needs ahead of the PR team.. THE NHL makes enough money and power off of players beating themselves up night in and out.. He deserves a choice and so do they all.

Then, please someone refuse the RBC logo!

 

[HuGort]

Hope we don't fluke a win. Capitals beat us 5 games straight, hope they make it 6

 

[The Real Timo]

Panarin took a leave from the Rangers and had a whole story made up implicating him in a sexual assault charge all because he liked a tweet Putin's political rival.

While it may sound absurd to us, their concern is entirely warranted. Russia is a very different Country than Canada or the US.

A man was recently jailed in Russian for 2 years because his 12 year old daughter drew an anti war picture.

Regardless what Gurianovs reasons are it ain’t anybody’s f***ing business.