GDT: Game 76: Columbus vs. New Jersey | 3/31 7PM EDT

[db2011]

If the draft turns out to be over hyped so be it. In the meantime I will continue to listen to the guys who do this for a living. And I will continue to believe the statistics that say the higher your draft pick the better your chance is to have a real good player.I will also continue to believe that finishing strong doesn't guarantee a better next season. Just look at this season versus last season for evidence of that.

Am I glad this team is playing well? Yes. Do I think five years down the road this will have any impact on the team? Just like that fact the Jackets sucked 5 years ago and pretty much for their entire history has absolutely nothing to do with how the team is playing now this current winning season will mean absolutely nothing then. If we draft the best guy we can and it turns out to be the right move that will help in the future. Statistics say the sooner we draft the better the chance of that guy being such a player.

I don't just mean this draft, I mean The Draft in general. It's the fairest way to distribute new players throughout the league, and it's something good teams do well, but as a rule that's the extent of it.

This particular year, we lost out on the chance at first overall in December, as DSL has tried to remind us. We've been in a position to draft high since then, and we will still draft high (and often).

 

[db2011]

Show me another example, other than Detroit and I will tend to listen to that argument a bit more. And show me all the Cups the Jackets have won without a generational talent.

And it isn't the team worrying about draft position, it is us (or at least some of us), a group of fans, who are talking about it. I get it that the players don't give a crap about it and they will always give their best but once the playoffs are gone I will always say a better draft position is better than winning the last few games.

I'd rather you show me examples of teams that have become dynasties due as a result of the top draft pick. There just aren't that many, and thanks to changes in approaches to the game, like advanced stats, strength and nutrition, technology, etc, I don't see that sort of thing happenning again.

You got to draft well, and having high picks doesn't hurt, and drafting poorly is a fatal flaw. But across sports, drafts are overhyped (except maybe the NBA). Remember that Garth Snow offered the entire draft for Murray? Our burgeoning whipping boy? That hype tends to obscure that championship teams are good throughout the organization.

Our team, right now, is demonstrating that this is a potentially strong organization. Celebrate that!

Good win last night, I wasn't really expecting Dubi to convert! Sweet play by Savard and JJ to get the winner, set up by a ridiculous move by Johansen, so strong.

 

[Nordique]

Show me another example, other than Detroit and I will tend to listen to that argument a bit more. And show me all the Cups the Jackets have won without a generational talent.

And it isn't the team worrying about draft position, it is us (or at least some of us), a group of fans, who are talking about it. I get it that the players don't give a crap about it and they will always give their best but once the playoffs are gone I will always say a better draft position is better than winning the last few games.

I understand and can relate to what you are saying. But on the other hand, look at LA and what they've done with out a first overall generational talent, as opposed to say and EDM with those 3 years of 1st overalls in a row.

I love these wins, winning together is highly underrated in terms of team bonding, chemistry, and development. Did you see the 4th line we put on the ice? Man I'm excited for next season.

 

[ca5150]

Yeah he was on Johansens wing when everybody was hurt and everybody was focusing on his line because absolutely nobody else was scoring. He didnt even play half of a season so lets say stays on the same pace then hes due for what 11 pts, and HOPEFULLY (knocks on wood) we stay healthy and can roll all 4 lines. And if the 4th line consists of Calvert, Letestu/Karlsson and Morin i dont think 20 pts is out of reach for him.

I can see this is a pointless discussion, but not everyone on a hockey team is supposed to be a skill player that gets points. There are role players, players that their goal is to get the other team on their heals through forechecking, hitting, fighting, intimidation, etc. That opens up the ice for your top 3 lines, gives them more room on the ice, allows them to "play bigger" knowing they are protected and take chances, therefore, they are more productive. It really surprises me that so many people on this board don't understand that basic hockey concept. Karlsson is not a 4th line player, neither is Letestu, they are not the type of player that makes our 4th line productive. DMac was exactly the type of player you want for your 4th line and you can REALLY tell the difference since he's left.

If you thinking hitting and fighting are pointless, look no further than our next opponent, they were garbage and then they turned their 4th line into a hitting, fighting wrecking machine and they have taken off since then and are one of the hardest teams to play against in the league and will go far in the playoffs. Blue Jacket hockey is leaving the other team with ice bags on after the game, making them dread playing us. That's how we have won in the past and that's how we will be successful again. Putting a 4th line of Karlsson and Morin together would be counter productive to our identity.

 

[ca5150]

That's indicative of Calvert and Letestu then, not Boll.

Thanks for reiterating my point

 

[DarkandStormy]

I can see this is a pointless discussion, but not everyone on a hockey team is supposed to be a skill player that gets points. There are role players, players that their goal is to get the other team on their heals through forechecking, hitting, fighting, intimidation, etc. That opens up the ice for your top 3 lines, gives them more room on the ice, allows them to "play bigger" knowing they are protected and take chances, therefore, they are more productive. It really surprises me that so many people on this board don't understand that basic hockey concept. Karlsson is not a 4th line player, neither is Letestu, they are not the type of player that makes our 4th line productive. DMac was exactly the type of player you want for your 4th line and you can REALLY tell the difference since he's left.

If you thinking hitting and fighting are pointless, look no further than our next opponent, they were garbage and then they turned their 4th line into a hitting, fighting wrecking machine and they have taken off since then and are one of the hardest teams to play against in the league and will go far in the playoffs. Blue Jacket hockey is leaving the other team with ice bags on after the game, making them dread playing us. That's how we have won in the past and that's how we will be successful again. Putting a 4th line of Karlsson and Morin together would be counter productive to our identity.

I don't think Jenner, Foligno, Dubinsky, Hartnell, or Calvert need "protected." Same for most of the guys on the back end. If this team was full of Filatov's and Zherdev's, maybe. But literally every line has one, sometimes two guys who don't take $$#@ from anybody and will stand up for their themselves and their teammates. Boll doesn't "protect" anybody.

 

[Cash for Nash]

I understand and can relate to what you are saying. But on the other hand, look at LA and what they've done with out a first overall generational talent, as opposed to say and EDM with those 3 years of 1st overalls in a row.

I love these wins, winning together is highly underrated in terms of team bonding, chemistry, and development. Did you see the 4th line we put on the ice? Man I'm excited for next season.

To be fair--LA would be pretty pedestrian if we hadn't literally "handed" them two Superstar players (Carter, Gaborik). Those two players put them in the finals in their respective years. LA definitely has benefited from their location and market appeal in which players with NMC's have waived to go there (Carter, Gabby).

 

[ca5150]

I don't think Jenner, Foligno, Dubinsky, Hartnell, or Calvert need "protected." Same for most of the guys on the back end. If this team was full of Filatov's and Zherdev's, maybe. But literally every line has one, sometimes two guys who don't take $$#@ from anybody and will stand up for their themselves and their teammates. Boll doesn't "protect" anybody.

OK, see what happens to RyJo and Atkinson and the skill players when you make your 4th line a ***** line. The space on the ice will close up, they will start getting extra runs at them and liberties taken in front of the net and will have to fight for every inch of ice when the other team knows there isn't a price to pay if they run our skill guys. Why do you think you know more than the guys in the room?? Every player on that team absolutely loves Boll, do you not hear the interviews?? Jesus Christ, I am so looking forward to my summer break from this board. Talking about this reminds me of Spinal Tap when they say, "why don't you make 10 louder?" and he looks blankly at him and says "but this one goes to 11!"

That's what it's like discussing tough hockey and fighting and Boll on here. If I didn't love everything Jackets so much, I would surely be a happier person if I stayed off of here...

 

[Bobcat110]

I understand and can relate to what you are saying. But on the other hand, look at LA and what they've done with out a first overall generational talent

And with the 2nd pick in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft...the LA Kings select: Drew Doughty.

And with the 6th pick in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft...the Columbus Blue Jackets select: Nikita Filatov

 

[Crede777]

OK, see what happens to RyJo and Atkinson and the skill players when you make your 4th line a ***** line. The space on the ice will close up, they will start getting extra runs at them and liberties taken in front of the net and will have to fight for every inch of ice when the other team knows there isn't a price to pay if they run our skill guys. Why do you think you know more than the guys in the room?? Every player on that team absolutely loves Boll, do you not hear the interviews?? Jesus Christ, I am so looking forward to my summer break from this board. Talking about this reminds me of Spinal Tap when they say, "why don't you make 10 louder?" and he looks blankly at him and says "but this one goes to 11!"

That's what it's like discussing tough hockey and fighting and Boll on here. If I didn't love everything Jackets so much, I would surely be a happier person if I stayed off of here...

Jared Boll was out all of last season and the 4th line arguably contributed more to overall team success.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I'd rather you show me examples of teams that have become dynasties due as a result of the top draft pick. There just aren't that many, and thanks to changes in approaches to the game, like advanced stats, strength and nutrition, technology, etc, I don't see that sort of thing happenning again.

Chicago was about as bad as us until the son took over and they got a couple pretty good players in the draft. Again dynasty? Probably not but they are the best team of last few years and likely several more.

Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin don't have many cups (recently) but they saved the franchise and turned them into the most known team in hockey (plus parlayed that into a new stadium they desperately needed).

 

[Fro]

yes beign able to run 4 scoring lines that all have a bit of grit to it would be a terrible thing...but yes, let's make sure Boll is out there who does nothing well, even fighting...

the game is passing you by dude...

 

[JacketsDavid]

Just for giggles I looked at overall #1 picks from last 10 years and where the teams are now:

2005 - Crosby - Pittsburgh - 4th in East
2006 - Johnson - Blues - 3rd in West
2007 - Kane - Chicago - 4th in West
2008 - Stamkos - TB - 3rd in East
2009 - Tavares - NYI - 5th in East
2010-12 - Hall, Hopkins, Yap - Edmonton - they are the exception obviously.
2013 - Mackinnon - Colorado - Out of playoffs in 2014 but was better last year
2014 - Ek - Florida - sits a spot ahead of the Jackets in the East (10th in East), so some progress for team

Again Edmonton like the CBJ is the exception. All other teams seem to sink and rise back up in standings pretty quickly in NHL. The Oilers just stay at the very bottom.
Pittsburgh, and Chicago are 2 are the favorites to win cup for recent years. StL has been good for few years but can't seem to get over. Tampa and NYI are teams on rise. Colorado was decent last year, not sure if injuries this year or just regression.

 

[ca5150]

yes beign able to run 4 scoring lines that all have a bit of grit to it would be a terrible thing...but yes, let's make sure Boll is out there who does nothing well, even fighting...

the game is passing you by dude...

Obviously Fro from the internets knows more than the players, coaches, Jarmo, JD....why are you not coaching in the NHL since you know more than Richards??

 

[major major]

If you thinking hitting and fighting are pointless, look no further than our next opponent, they were garbage and then they turned their 4th line into a hitting, fighting wrecking machine and they have taken off since then and are one of the hardest teams to play against in the league and will go far in the playoffs. Blue Jacket hockey is leaving the other team with ice bags on after the game, making them dread playing us. That's how we have won in the past and that's how we will be successful again. Putting a 4th line of Karlsson and Morin together would be counter productive to our identity.

I'm on your side of this argument in the abstract. A hitting machine for a fourth line is a big plus.

In the specific, Jared Boll's game has deteriorated and he brings a tiny fraction of what Martin/Clutterbuck bring. In addition to being terrifying to play against they actually control the play and outscore the other team.

 

[DarkandStormy]

OK, see what happens to RyJo and Atkinson and the skill players when you make your 4th line a ***** line. The space on the ice will close up, they will start getting extra runs at them and liberties taken in front of the net and will have to fight for every inch of ice when the other team knows there isn't a price to pay if they run our skill guys. Why do you think you know more than the guys in the room?? Every player on that team absolutely loves Boll, do you not hear the interviews?? Jesus Christ, I am so looking forward to my summer break from this board. Talking about this reminds me of Spinal Tap when they say, "why don't you make 10 louder?" and he looks blankly at him and says "but this one goes to 11!"

That's what it's like discussing tough hockey and fighting and Boll on here. If I didn't love everything Jackets so much, I would surely be a happier person if I stayed off of here...

To be clear, my issue isn't with Boll. He is what he is. My issue is that he's making $1.7 million a year to play 6 minutes a night and doesn't contribute anything other than an occasional fight. You say he hits hard/well - I say he whiffs and then takes bad penalties. My issue is that management decided to give him $1.7 million and then damn near carved him out a PERMANENT spot on the 4th line. There are better players that can play in that place, and more often than not for less money.

 

[ca5150]

yes beign able to run 4 scoring lines that all have a bit of grit to it would be a terrible thing...but yes, let's make sure Boll is out there who does nothing well, even fighting...

the game is passing you by dude...

I just read this in Hockey News last night, I'll save it for you. This is a quote from Ron Francis, a Hall of Fame player(who wasn't a fighter or even a physical player) not that you probably remember him... and GM of an NHL franchise. I'll let him know that Fro from the Internets said to tell him "the game is passing you by, dude"


HOF Ron Francis "there are other pieces that have to be included. You can’t just have all skilled players; you’ve got to have guys that play certain roles. We want a team that competes and battles hard every night.â€

 

[Fro]

Obviously Fro from the internets knows more than the players, coaches, Jarmo, JD....why are you not coaching in the NHL since you know more than Richards??

lol...predictable...you have no actual comeback so fall back to 5th grade comebacks...

as stated by someone else, there are plenty of players on this team that can stand up for themselves, and they're being scattered throughout the lineup...and the way this team played, that was the best 4th line we've iced all year...they had legit scoring opps, had energy, and didn't give up a goal.

being able to roll 4 balanced lines allowed us to play our game...I hope to see more of this type lineup next year

 

[ca5150]

To be clear, my issue isn't with Boll. He is what he is. My issue is that he's making $1.7 million a year to play 6 minutes a night and doesn't contribute anything other than an occasional fight. You say he hits hard/well - I say he whiffs and then takes bad penalties. My issue is that management decided to give him $1.7 million and then damn near carved him out a PERMANENT spot on the 4th line. There are better players that can play in that place, and more often than not for less money.

He does not take bad penalties, he has 109 PIMs, 75 min of those are fights, so that means he only has 34 minutes in minor penalties, not much for someone that has played 71 games, if you are going to complain about people that take stupid penalties, he's middle of the pack on this team. he's earned 1.7 million per season, he's the longest tenured player on the team and an NHL vet, you think you are going to pay a guy the league minimum for a guy that has played 7 years??

 

[ca5150]

lol...predictable...you have no actual comeback so fall back to 5th grade comebacks...

as stated by someone else, there are plenty of players on this team that can stand up for themselves, and they're being scattered throughout the lineup...and the way this team played, that was the best 4th line we've iced all year...they had legit scoring opps, had energy, and didn't give up a goal.

being able to roll 4 balanced lines allowed us to play our game...I hope to see more of this type lineup next year

That IS my comeback, you aren't in the room, so you're basically saying you know more than the players, coaches and management who all praise Boll and love him. if he was crap, don't you think he would be in the stands?? what do you know that they don't and I don't??

And we can roll 4 lines! Calvert, Letestu and Boll had great chemistry together for 5 or 6 games and were maybe our best line during that stretch! Do you not remember??

 

[Fro]

I just read this in Hockey News last night, I'll save it for you. This is a quote from Ron Francis, a Hall of Fame player(who wasn't a fighter or even a physical player) not that you probably remember him... and GM of an NHL franchise. I'll let him know that Fro from the Internets said to tell him "the game is passing you by, dude"


HOF Ron Francis "there are other pieces that have to be included. You can’t just have all skilled players; you’ve got to have guys that play certain roles. We want a team that competes and battles hard every night.â€

and where have the Canes been finishing with that GM at the helm? oh yeah, picking in the top 10 regularly...he's obviously a great person to model your team after...

who's the King's had that was only a fighter? the Blackhawks?

 

[ca5150]

I'm on your side of this argument in the abstract. A hitting machine for a fourth line is a big plus.

In the specific, Jared Boll's game has deteriorated and he brings a tiny fraction of what Martin/Clutterbuck bring. In addition to being terrifying to play against they actually control the play and outscore the other team.

Well we don't have Martin and Clutterbuck so we have to work with what we have and Jeremy Morin is not who/what we need on the 4th line, period, it's not Boll that I'm arguing for necessarily, it's that style of play from the 4th line. Find a replacement that will hit and fight and score 20 goals and I'll drive Boll to the bus station, until we have that, I don't want a soft 4th line, plain and simple. Anderson could turn into that, but he's not ready yet and won't be next year either.

 

[Jackets Fan]

All of the guys in the locker room and in the front office disagree with you, but you're certainly entitled to spend the next couple of weeks in misery.

I don't want to lose. Ever. No matter what the situation. Losing sucks and feels bad. Winning is good and feels good.

I don't care if our draft position is suffering. What's important is that when this team is remotely healthy, they can kick ass. We have so much young talent coming up anyhow, we don't NEED a top 10 pick to get us back into the playoffs.

THIS ^^^^

Why can't we all just feel good about the fact that when this team is healthy, they are absolute beasts.
This team is actually better than the 13-14 team. That team had Scumberger, not Hartnell. That team did not have Dano and Wennberg.
And not to mention Johansen and Jenner will have another year of experience, and will be even better. Same goes for guys like Bjork, Milano, Rychel, etc....

 

[ca5150]

and where have the Canes been finishing with that GM at the helm? oh yeah, picking in the top 10 regularly...he's obviously a great person to model your team after...

who's the King's had that was only a fighter? the Blackhawks?

He just took over the job this season smartass, he hasn't had a chance to put his stamp on the team yet.

 

[Nordique]

He does not take bad penalties, he has 109 PIMs, 75 min of those are fights, so that means he only has 34 minutes in minor penalties, not much for someone that has played 71 games, if you are going to complain about people that take stupid penalties, he's middle of the pack on this team. he's earned 1.7 million per season, he's the longest tenured player on the team and an NHL vet, you think you are going to pay a guy the league minimum for a guy that has played 7 years??

I don't think Boll is excessive in the stupid penalty dept, but he's also not middle of the pack. He's in fact on par with the leaders on the team when you factor in TOI. Hartnell is on the ice 17 minutes a night, Boll more like 7, so you can't just compare minor penalties per game.