GDT: Game 76: Columbus vs. New Jersey | 3/31 7PM EDT

[ca5150]

I don't think Boll is excessive in the stupid penalty dept, but he's also not middle of the pack. He's in fact on par with the leaders on the team when you factor in TOI. Hartnell is on the ice 17 minutes a night, Boll more like 7, so you can't just compare minor penalties per game.

You have a point, however, I don't think time on ice is as big a factor, if you are prone to stupid penalties, you are going to take them no matter how much time you are out there. I think he's fairly responsible in that area, I can't find any breakdown of what his minor penalties are for, but I don't remember him taking tripping, hooking or anything like that that are "stupid" penalties. I don't find roughing, charging, boarding or the like to be "stupid" penalties, they are hustle and physical penalties that are bound to happen when you play a wreckless style of game. If anyone has a link to what penalties players are called for, it would be great! barring going game by game and making a list

 

[Jackets Fan]

They seem to be a great example- they never need to worry about draft positioning because they do everything else so well. And how many Cups has Crosby won again? You can count them on one finger.

Great point.

Superstars don't win Cups, Teams do. If the Jackets win a Cup it will be because of guys like Dubinsky, Jenner, Hartnell, Calvert etc.
Great teams ( look at LA and Chicago ) have more than one-dimensional offensive players. They have a mix of skill, grit, and hockey IQ. The Jackets fit the bill. Johansen, Cam, Foligno (skill) Dubi, Jenner, Calvert, Hartnell (grit) Wennberg, Dano, Murray( hockey IQ).

All the Pens have are 2 superstars, nothing else. And a goalie who chokes in the playoffs every post season. They're soft. Mentally and physically.
If the CBJ and Pens were to meet again this playoffs, no doubt in my mind the Jackets would win.

Everyone needs to get over these hyped up prospects. We aren't getting McEichel, which means we're not getting immediate help.

 

[EspenK]

I understand and can relate to what you are saying. But on the other hand, look at LA and what they've done with out a first overall generational talent, as opposed to say and EDM with those 3 years of 1st overalls in a row.

I love these wins, winning together is highly underrated in terms of team bonding, chemistry, and development. Did you see the 4th line we put on the ice? Man I'm excited for next season.

I don't think I have ever said we have to have the #1 pick although I truly believe that everyone here would welcome that opportunity this year. My contention is that the sooner we pick the better chance we have of getting the guy we really want. That is all.

As to next year, I share the optimism and enthusiasm regardless of who we draft. My only point of disagreement with many here is that I think a lower draft pick will be more beneficial in the long run than finishing strong.

 

[ca5150]

I don't think Boll is excessive in the stupid penalty dept, but he's also not middle of the pack. He's in fact on par with the leaders on the team when you factor in TOI. Hartnell is on the ice 17 minutes a night, Boll more like 7, so you can't just compare minor penalties per game.

Slow day at work so I looked up each game to find out what his minor penalties are for:

Roughing 5
High Stick 2
Charging 2
Slashing 2
hooking 2
cross check 1
holding 1
elbow 1
closing hand on the puck 1

So by my count he has taken 4 "stupid" penalties this year for hooking, holding and closing hand on puck

The other penalties are normal for someone that plays physical and throws their body around and sticks up for teammates. So the reputation of taking "stupid" penalties should be put to rest for Boll. He has been very effective the last few months, when playing with good players, he was stuck with Chaput the first half of the season and he's worthless. Boll isn't going to carry the puck up ice, but he opens up the ice for his linemates when they have a little talent like Calvert, Letestu, Dmac and Comeau...he just needs more talented linemates and they have been very effective.

 

[db2011]

Just for giggles I looked at overall #1 picks from last 10 years and where the teams are now:

2005 - Crosby - Pittsburgh - 4th in East
2006 - Johnson - Blues - 3rd in West
2007 - Kane - Chicago - 4th in West
2008 - Stamkos - TB - 3rd in East
2009 - Tavares - NYI - 5th in East
2010-12 - Hall, Hopkins, Yap - Edmonton - they are the exception obviously.
2013 - Mackinnon - Colorado - Out of playoffs in 2014 but was better last year
2014 - Ek - Florida - sits a spot ahead of the Jackets in the East (10th in East), so some progress for team

Again Edmonton like the CBJ is the exception. All other teams seem to sink and rise back up in standings pretty quickly in NHL. The Oilers just stay at the very bottom.
Pittsburgh, and Chicago are 2 are the favorites to win cup for recent years. StL has been good for few years but can't seem to get over. Tampa and NYI are teams on rise. Colorado was decent last year, not sure if injuries this year or just regression.

You could just as easily identify as exceptions the 8 teams on that list that have not won a Stanley Cup in the time the list represents. Thanks for doing this, it proves my point.

Enjoy these wins and this level of hockey from our guys. First overall is no panacea; winning hockey is

 

[Nordique]

I don't think I have ever said we have to have the #1 pick although I truly believe that everyone here would welcome that opportunity this year. My contention is that the sooner we pick the better chance we have of getting the guy we really want. That is all.

As to next year, I share the optimism and enthusiasm regardless of who we draft. My only point of disagreement with many here is that I think a lower draft pick will be more beneficial in the long run than finishing strong.

I can't argue that, in fact I'll shamelessly bump my numbers from the STL GDT that confirms what you are saying:

#5 vs #8 picks going back to year 2000.

5th overalls:
Dal Colle
Lindholm
M Rielly
Strome
Niederreiter
B Schenn
L Schenn
Alzner
Kessel
C Price
B Wheeler
T Vanek
Whitney
Chistov
Torres

8th overalls:
Nylander
Ristolainen
Poulliot
Coutourier
Burmistrov
Glennie
Boedker
Hamill
Mueller
Setoguchi
A Picard
Coburn
PM Bouchard
P Leclaire
Alexeev

 

[EDM]

Perhaps Boll's teammates also need a more talented linemate.

 

[ca5150]

Perhaps Boll's teammates also need a more talented linemate.

go find me one that can fight anyone in the league and score 20 goals and you can ship Boll wherever you want

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

go find me one that can fight anyone in the league and score 20 goals and you can ship Boll wherever you want

Also one that comes riding in on a unicorn and we only have to trade a conditional 7th for

 

[DarkandStormy]

The 4th line put up EV Corsi for ratings of +4, +5, and +5.

 

[Crede777]

go find me one that can fight anyone in the league and score 20 goals and you can ship Boll wherever you want

There are plenty of 20 goal scorers who can fight anyone in the league. Most just choose not to because they'd either rather be out there scoring those goals than in the box, or because they'd get their faces smashed in.

You could contend that you're looking for someone who can score 20 goals and WIN in a fight against anyone, but I would point out that I don't think Boll does either of those two. As a friend once said: "Boll isn't that great at fighting, he's great at getting into fights."

 

[JacketsDavid]

You could just as easily identify as exceptions the 8 teams on that list that have not won a Stanley Cup in the time the list represents. Thanks for doing this, it proves my point.

Enjoy these wins and this level of hockey from our guys. First overall is no panacea; winning hockey is

Nobody said you needed the first overall - except you. I typed the first ovrall because that is what you said - first overall picks aren't that important. I showed to about every team they are - except to a team like Edmonton that may have the worst franchise in the NHL.

My point has always been drafting 5th-8th every year has gotten us no where. Be really good or really bad, not the team committed to mediocrity.

 

[Bobcat110]

I can't argue that, in fact I'll shamelessly bump my numbers from the STL GDT that confirms what you are saying:

#5 vs #8 picks going back to year 2000.

5th overalls:
Dal Colle
Lindholm
M Rielly
Strome
Niederreiter
B Schenn
L Schenn
Alzner
Kessel
C Price
B Wheeler
T Vanek
Whitney
Chistov
Torres

8th overalls:
Nylander
Ristolainen
Poulliot
Coutourier
Burmistrov
Glennie
Boedker
Hamill
Mueller
Setoguchi
A Picard
Coburn
PM Bouchard
P Leclaire
Alexeev

And with those lists as examples, the CBJ should just trade the pick for a current NHLer (assuming they don't win draft lotto). If they're really the playoff team as most here believe, then trading the pick seems like a no brainer. You get a known entity that can help you now versus a grab bag prospect who likely doesn't surface into the NHL until 2019-20 season, if at all. Might be able to get a decent defenseman out of another team.

Seriously, 30 guys there and how many "gems"? 3 or 4? Especially in the 8th spot? How many wasted picks? I really think picking 5-10 is probably the ********* place because expectations are higher for guys that can be found lower in the draft. Let some other GM pay you to roll the dice on these kids. If you're not in the Top 2 or 3 overall, then it's just hit or miss after that on 18 year-olds.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

And with those lists as examples, the CBJ should just trade the pick for a current NHLer (assuming they don't win draft lotto). If they're really the playoff team as most here believe, then trading the pick seems like a no brainer. You get a known entity that can help you now versus a grab bag prospect who likely doesn't surface into the NHL until 2019-20 season, if at all. Might be able to get a decent defenseman out of another team.

Seriously, 30 guys there and how many "gems"? 3 or 4? Especially in the 8th spot? How many wasted picks? I really think picking 5-10 is probably the ********* place because expectations are higher for guys that can be found lower in the draft. Let some other GM pay you to roll the dice on these kids. If you're not in the Top 2 or 3 overall, then it's just hit or miss after that on 18 year-olds.

I'm with you.

The percentage of #5-10 picks who have turned around a franchise is probably a very slight number. I've had an opportunity to see Strome and Marner play (top 7 picks) and I wouldn't hang my hat on either of them being perennial all stars.

From 2003-09, the best 5 through 10 picks that I saw were: Couture, Voracek, Phaneuf and Oliver E-Larsson. Ironically, the best of the lot was once a CBJ. Thanks to the wizardry of exGM Howson, he isn't anymore. So, of the 42 picks during that period, only one (Voracek) could potentially be called a franchise-type player. The odds of getting one in slots 5-10 is very slight.

Packaging this year's #1 (post lottery as you said) along with other picks and a player like Asinimov could yield the Jackets the defensive help that they need.

I do strongly doubt that the CBJ will part with their first pick. The GM is a scout at heart and the allure of possibly picking the gem in the 7th or 8th spot will likely outweigh the probably of him doing so.

 

[ca5150]

There are plenty of 20 goal scorers who can fight anyone in the league. Most just choose not to because they'd either rather be out there scoring those goals than in the box, or because they'd get their faces smashed in.

You could contend that you're looking for someone who can score 20 goals and WIN in a fight against anyone, but I would point out that I don't think Boll does either of those two. As a friend once said: "Boll isn't that great at fighting, he's great at getting into fights."

I'm perfectly fine with Boll as he is, as our 4th line RW, I don't care if our 4th line scores if they are creating havoc each game. Everyone else are the ones hell bent on the only people that should be on the ice are scorers. That's like complaining because an offensive lineman doesn't have any touchdowns. Do you not watch the fights, do you only deem someone a "winner" if they knock someone out?? Per hockeyfights.com, the most respected hockey fights website, Boll has 9 WINS, 1 LOSS AND 5 DRAWS this season, not sure what else you want from the guy.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

i'm perfectly fine with boll as he is, as our 4th line rw, i don't care if our 4th line scores if they are creating havoc each game. Everyone else are the ones hell bent on the only people that should be on the ice are scorers. That's like complaining because an offensive lineman doesn't have any touchdowns. Do you not watch the fights, do you only deem someone a "winner" if they knock someone out?? Per hockeyfights.com, the most respected hockey fights website, boll has 9 wins, 1 loss and 5 draws this season, not sure what else you want from the guy.

i want him to give back the $1.7m he stole from the team this year!

 

[ca5150]

i want him to give back the $1.7m he stole from the team this year!

Stop poking the bear, I know you're on my side, haha. I want the 4.5 million that Tyutin is stealing from us! Far bigger problems than a 1.7 million contract, that's the bottom of the barrel for NHL contracts for a veteran.

 

[CBJx614]

I'm with you.

The percentage of #5-10 picks who have turned around a franchise is probably a very slight number. I've had an opportunity to see Strome and Marner play (top 7 picks) and I wouldn't hang my hat on either of them being perennial all stars.

From 2003-09, the best 5 through 10 picks that I saw were: Couture, Voracek, Phaneuf and Oliver E-Larsson. Ironically, the best of the lot was once a CBJ. Thanks to the wizardry of exGM Howson, he isn't anymore. So, of the 42 picks during that period, only one (Voracek) could potentially be called a franchise-type player. The odds of getting one in slots 5-10 is very slight.

Packaging this year's #1 (post lottery as you said) along with other picks and a player like Asinimov could yield the Jackets the defensive help that they need.

I do strongly doubt that the CBJ will part with their first pick. The GM is a scout at heart and the allure of possibly picking the gem in the 7th or 8th spot will likely outweigh the probably of him doing so.

Exactly, but looking back at his track record in the first i feel pretty comfortable with him making that pick.

2010-Schwartz(10) and Tarasenko(16th). Both are making a big splash right now in the NHL this season.

2009 Runblad(17)looking like a bottom pair defenseman not terrible, but definitely room for improvement.

2008 Pietrangelo (4th)

2007 Traded with SJ to move down. SJ drafted Courture(9)...STL drafted Lars Eller(13), a pick before Shattenkirk...ouch.
Ian Cole(18) and David Perron (26)

2006 Johnson(1). With Toews, Backstrom and Kessel on the board.

2005 Oshie (25)

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Exactly, but looking back at his track record in the first i feel pretty comfortable with him making that pick.

2010-Schwartz(10) and Tarasenko(16th). Both are making a big splash right now in the NHL this season.

2009 Runblad(17)looking like a bottom pair defenseman not terrible, but definitely room for improvement.

2008 Pietrangelo (4th)

2007 Traded with SJ to move down. SJ drafted Courture(9)...STL drafted Lars Eller(13), a pick before Shattenkirk...ouch.
Ian Cole(18) and David Perron (26)

2006 Johnson(1). With Toews, Backstrom and Kessel on the board.

2005 Oshie (25)

Thanks for the info.

With JKs track record from his last 3 years in STL, he certainly would have plenty of ammo to shoot down my case for trading the first round pick away.

I just think that the window of this team for SC contention is already opened and that the value of a sound defensive addition now outweighs the need for help down the road.

 

[pete goegan]

I like this quote from Schnieder after last night's game:

''Obviously, they're one of the hottest teams in the league right now,'' said Schneider, who stopped 28 shots. ''You can see why. They play with speed and skill and with some grit. They go to the crease and they make it hard. They're a tough team to handle.''

 

[CBJx614]

Thanks for the info.

With JKs track record from his last 3 years in STL, he certainly would have plenty of ammo to shoot down my case for trading the first round pick away.

I just think that the window of this team for SC contention is already opened and that the value of a sound defensive addition now outweighs the need for help down the road.

im really stuck in the middle right now we really do need another top 4 dman. But we have players like Savard who could take another leap forward and possibly a healthy Murray for a full season i think the D will look a lot better next season.

At the same time if you go by the latest ISS rankings if we finish at 8th, both Provorov and Werenski will both be available and with all the wasted cap space on certain players(Clarkson, Borque, Boll) i think itd be better to draft that dman and let him grow in our system. Especially someone like Provorov who could possibly play his way into the NHL as soon as this upcoming season.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Stop poking the bear, I know you're on my side, haha. I want the 4.5 million that Tyutin is stealing from us! Far bigger problems than a 1.7 million contract, that's the bottom of the barrel for NHL contracts for a veteran.

It's an expensive 4th liner.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Slow day at work so I looked up each game to find out what his minor penalties are for:

Roughing 5
High Stick 2
Charging 2
Slashing 2
hooking 2
cross check 1
holding 1
elbow 1
closing hand on the puck 1

So by my count he has taken 4 "stupid" penalties this year for hooking, holding and closing hand on puck

The other penalties are normal for someone that plays physical and throws their body around and sticks up for teammates. So the reputation of taking "stupid" penalties should be put to rest for Boll. He has been very effective the last few months, when playing with good players, he was stuck with Chaput the first half of the season and he's worthless. Boll isn't going to carry the puck up ice, but he opens up the ice for his linemates when they have a little talent like Calvert, Letestu, Dmac and Comeau...he just needs more talented linemates and they have been very effective.

Penalties are not stupid in name alone. Timing is everything. Cross checking, roughing, slashing, and charging are all stupid penalties if done at the wrong time and put your team shorthanded for no reasons whatsoever. Also, did any of those penalties also have a matching minor from the other team?

I honestly don't know the answer to this in regards to Boll but I have to disagree with a statement that he only had 4 stupid penalties without any other facts to back it up outside of the type of penalty called.

 

[ca5150]

Penalties are not stupid in name alone. Timing is everything. Cross checking, roughing, slashing, and charging are all stupid penalties if done at the wrong time and put your team shorthanded for no reasons whatsoever. Also, did any of those penalties also have a matching minor from the other team?

I honestly don't know the answer to this in regards to Boll but I have to disagree with a statement that he only had 4 stupid penalties without any other facts to back it up outside of the type of penalty called.

Some of them did have matching minors, usually the roughings, the reason I say the others aren't necessarily stupid penalties is because they are hard nosed penalties, when you play rough and run around throwing the body, you are going to get the chargings, etc. But you are correct, there are instances when those could be detrimental to the team, I just don't remember, but rarely do I remember him taking a minor penalty that cost the team for no reason. I think he's very responsible and picks his spots. A lot of his minor penalties come in scrums and that's just part of the job and I don't think Richards has a problem killing those off. The dumb penalties are when someone isn't skating and they take a hooking or tripping call because they weren't hustling, I rarely see that from him.

 

[EDM]

If Boll could score FIVE goals he would be acceptable as a fighter. Never mind 20. But Boll's game has actually deteriorated, from the not very high level of its peak, over the past few years. Five goals for him would be a pipe dream.