Aashir
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
- Apr 19, 2019
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He can put up 3 ppg against us in the regular season. He won’t show up for the playoffs Line always
Pre-Game Talk: Game 7: last chance for the core
- Thread starter stickty111
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Strangle
Leafs Smol PP
- May 4, 2009
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I can’t speak for everyone, but the Leafs are terrible in game 7’s.
This will, in all probability, be their worst effort of the season coming up on Monday.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
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I'm based in London, UK, so it's a big opportunity cost for me to stay up to 4AM local time to watch this drivel....fortunately, I'm on sabbatical from work so that I can afford to do this. I might miss Game 7 entirely in exchange for a good night's sleep.
You can view this as growing pains - the Raptors went through it for about 5 years before they shipped DeRozan out for 1 year of Kawhi. I feel like the Leafs are in a similar rut. Even if they beat the Habs tomorrow, I don't see this team constructed as a championship caliber team or even a conference final team. At some point, a serious change needs to be made - and I feel like the appetite and optics for this will be greater with a loss tomorrow night. You never want to cheer against your team, but sometimes it's better to lose the battle and to win the war - the current trend is a perennial rout.
As far as I'm concerned, the only untouchables on this team after tomorrow night are Matthews, Nylander, and (maybe) Campbell. After that, everyone should be in play. The name of the game should be to maximize ROI on trades; I'd look first at Tavares, Marner, and Rielly. Problem is other than Rielly, I'm not sure you get above 70 cents to the dollar at this point and I'm not not a fan of just dumping them for the cap space as UFA purchases are usually ROI-poor.
If I were Dubas and really had the stones, I'd bite the bullet and try to recoup anyone outside of the aforementioned 6 players for draft picks and assets ahead of the draft and retool; then during next regular season, when the Leafs are overperforming as usual, I'd pull the trigger on Tavares/Marner/Rielly for maximum assets and do a proper rebuild. You'd get way better returns this way than trying to deal them after coming off of another playoff embarrassment.
You can view this as growing pains - the Raptors went through it for about 5 years before they shipped DeRozan out for 1 year of Kawhi. I feel like the Leafs are in a similar rut. Even if they beat the Habs tomorrow, I don't see this team constructed as a championship caliber team or even a conference final team. At some point, a serious change needs to be made - and I feel like the appetite and optics for this will be greater with a loss tomorrow night. You never want to cheer against your team, but sometimes it's better to lose the battle and to win the war - the current trend is a perennial rout.
As far as I'm concerned, the only untouchables on this team after tomorrow night are Matthews, Nylander, and (maybe) Campbell. After that, everyone should be in play. The name of the game should be to maximize ROI on trades; I'd look first at Tavares, Marner, and Rielly. Problem is other than Rielly, I'm not sure you get above 70 cents to the dollar at this point and I'm not not a fan of just dumping them for the cap space as UFA purchases are usually ROI-poor.
If I were Dubas and really had the stones, I'd bite the bullet and try to recoup anyone outside of the aforementioned 6 players for draft picks and assets ahead of the draft and retool; then during next regular season, when the Leafs are overperforming as usual, I'd pull the trigger on Tavares/Marner/Rielly for maximum assets and do a proper rebuild. You'd get way better returns this way than trying to deal them after coming off of another playoff embarrassment.
BTP
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- Apr 28, 2013
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ottomaddox
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I like the title of the pre-game talk, but I think it's the last chance for more than the players.
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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Not sure how to answer that, depends on what you mean by "that good".
It wasn't always 50/50 with the Habs, we were about 7-3 favourites before the games started and we're still better than 6/4 favourites even now going to game 7 without our captain. If you think it's only 50/50 then go bet on the Habs, getting almost 2-1 on your money is very profitable in the long run. I'd say good luck to you but like always, I'm still rooting for the Leafs to win.
I know a hockey player when I see one and that has been Brodie.
baton elevated
One Man Gang
- Jun 4, 2009
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Morning/afternoon all,
I will preface this post with a belief we are going to win game 7, law of averages maybe or just false bravado.
This post is more about how unentertaining this team has become the last few years. When 34, 16, 88 were rookies and setting rookie records that was an exciting time to be a Leaf fan! We had finally accumulated real talent, youth and players that liked being together. We had turned the corner.
But then they couldn't take the next step and apathy set in, no real fight to get to the next level. They became boring and predictable. Stressing the boring and unentertaining (no soul).
I can barely watch a full game any more been a few years now ( I did last night). I usually record the game and watch it with a delay of an hour or two. That is why I usually post after the game is played.
I can get through an entire game in 1 hour as opposed to dedicating 3+ hours. Primarily I disagree with the coaching and construct of this team. I like hard nosed hockey and being agressive on pucks, boards and corners. This team does not embody any of those traits and therefore unsuccessful. How times have changed for me after 50 years of cheering. So much to be said but I will cut it short here. '93 Leafs, best team I have seen. That's the type of team I enjoy. Not the most talent but heart and soulers. My two cents. Go Leafs!
I will preface this post with a belief we are going to win game 7, law of averages maybe or just false bravado.
This post is more about how unentertaining this team has become the last few years. When 34, 16, 88 were rookies and setting rookie records that was an exciting time to be a Leaf fan! We had finally accumulated real talent, youth and players that liked being together. We had turned the corner.
But then they couldn't take the next step and apathy set in, no real fight to get to the next level. They became boring and predictable. Stressing the boring and unentertaining (no soul).
I can barely watch a full game any more been a few years now ( I did last night). I usually record the game and watch it with a delay of an hour or two. That is why I usually post after the game is played.
I can get through an entire game in 1 hour as opposed to dedicating 3+ hours. Primarily I disagree with the coaching and construct of this team. I like hard nosed hockey and being agressive on pucks, boards and corners. This team does not embody any of those traits and therefore unsuccessful. How times have changed for me after 50 years of cheering. So much to be said but I will cut it short here. '93 Leafs, best team I have seen. That's the type of team I enjoy. Not the most talent but heart and soulers. My two cents. Go Leafs!
Captain Crunch
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- Mar 31, 2019
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Hard to imagine they could play worse than they did in the 1st period. But they do seem to be able to come up with new ways of ineptitude.
Strangle
Leafs Smol PP
- May 4, 2009
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Marner produces like an $11m player when he is being paid. As soon as the cheques stop coming in the playoffs he plays like a $0m player
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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Not sure the 2nd period was any better, that may have been the worst two period stretch of the entire season. The fact that it happened in the most important game of the year is beyond embarrassing, and doesn't say much for the quality of this team.
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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I've been saying it for years now - I will judge this team by how they do in the playoffs. So far the team's not looking good (duh) and Marner's not looking anywhere close to the franchise player some say he is. Campbell's been great though and I'd consider extending him to be the top priority in the off-season.
I really don’t think this is on Shanny or Dubas. I think they’ve done a great job of putting this team together. Who could’ve predicted Jason Spezza and Nylander would be leading the charge in the playoffs? This is on Matthews and Marner. The latter of the two has been shockingly bad to say the least, and I think shipping him out is our best option.
If we can target a swap for Eichel or Seth Jones, I think it would be for the best at this point. Even if we have to add.
Captain Crunch
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- Mar 31, 2019
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An excellent post!
The only problem I have is if you trade Tavares, and believe me I’d be all for that, is you would have to overpay big time for another UFA of his caliber, if any would even sign here. I’ve always maintained that we weren’t ready when Dubas signed Tavares. That sped up the rebuild. And to make matters worse, Dubas overpaid for Marner. This team is poorly constructed. Spending half your cap on 4 forwards is insane.
I, too, am hoping we lose tomorrow night, but only if it leads to getting rid of Dubas, and probably Shanahan should also go. As for Keefe, he is as stubborn as Babcock was. How else can you explain having Thornton playing on the first power-play unit, or even playing at all. And probably Simmons should be sitting as well. I feel Dubas was outcoached last year, and it’s happening again.
whoops, yes. he's definitely on the list.
I forgot him because he's basically someone that you'll never get a fair return for and your answer will always be no. Even if the Leafs win the Cup, if he were on the market, some team might offer a 1st and 3rd rounder, and his value would exceed that because he was your #1 defensive defenceman who won the Cup for you. Take someone like Rielly, who I would argue is the second most valuable defenceman on the Leafs in terms of contribution, but #1 in trade value. His perennial 50-70 points, 3rd all-star team value will get you significantly more in a trade, but I would argue that Brodie (and maybe even Muzzin) would have an equal or greater impact for your team come playoff time...especially when you rely so heavily on an offence-based game from your forwards
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
I think Matthews and Marner really need to understand that there is a legitimate chance of a shakeup to the core if they don't come through on Monday. They're best buddies, so if they want to ensure that they can continue to play together after this season, they better show up in a big way.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Or a couple of rookies. I bet you if we had to face an Elvis Merzlinks, or Joonas Korpisalo that we'd be in the 2nd round by now
They are so disappointing it’s beyond words. They keep trying to bring in vets hoping they might get that killer instinct but they just keep failing to show up. Dubas hopefully went into the room after the loss and been throwing garbage cans and calling out both Matthews and Marner by name. They wanted to get paid like superstars start playing like it!
3blizzard4
Registered User
Agree with all of this. The UFA market, in pure quantitative/analytical terms, will almost always deliver a suboptimal return for premier players. Tavares was worth probably closer to $8-8.5M in terms of value, and to your point, completely unneeded with Matthews/Marner/Nylander and decent secondary help in Kadri/Johnson/Kapanen. The timing was also 1-2 seasons too early. You only crack open the vault and overpay when you are literally a conference final contender and on the doorstep of a championship; the Leafs were not there 2 seasons ago - and even if they were, I would have much rather waited until last offseason to open the vault for Pietrangelo where the team need on defence was significantly greater...
That's the tragedy of Dubas, if he's on his way out. I'd hire him on my team as an AGM or head scout in a split second. The guy makes really good overseas signings, draft picks, trades, and cheap UFA pickups. His Muzzin, Spezza, Mikheyev, Sandin transactions were gold...but arguably offset by Tavares, Foligno, and the like.
Gary Nylund
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It's hard to argue with that, on paper, this team looks just so damn good. Yet they come out for the biggest game of the year and play like have no interest at all in winning. So WTF is this team?
Not My Tempo
Registered User
I agree this isn’t on Shanny or Dubas. This is our two star forwards not being able to play up to expectations, let alone elevate their games.
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