GDT: Game 4 - ESPN Says this is a Finals Preview - If we win, I agree! - Canes vs Oil

[Stickpucker]

If you breakdown the +/-, it really isn't indicative of what you are suggesting. Edmonton scored 6 goals:

2 PPG (no minus's for any Canes player)
1 SHG (- for anyone on the PP, but it's not indicative of the top two lines being taken advantage of)
1 ENG (- for anyone on the ice, but again not a case of top two lines being taken advantage of. Clearly the best offensive players are the only ones that will be on the ice in an EN situation so Aho and Svech will get a - there)
1 Horrible misplay by Andersen. Svech, Necas and Aho (who just jumped onto the ice as Kotkaniemi changed) all got a - because of it. Again, not indicative of that line being taken advantage of.
1 ES goal, the 2-1 for Kane (I believe Staal, Fast and Martinook were on the ice, but it was Burns that caused that).

Svech, Kotkaniemi, Necas dominated possession numbers and were in no way taken advantage of by Edmonton. Aho's line though was caved in and definitely lost that battle so no argument there. Other than the ENG and Horrible misplay by Andersen, none of them were scored on 5v5.

The ol' man has still got it. It's like watching a Rocky movie....

 

[Stickpucker]

I saw that game as a case of the best player in the world being the difference maker. McDavid's backcheck on Teuvo changed the entire game, and was a play that 99% of players could not have made. With the home-ice matchups keeping him away from our shutdown defenders, he goes out there and dishes 4 points like it's nothing. Countless times he controlled pucks that we would usually contest, secure, and clear. We likely win that game if McDavid is a league-average #1C rather than the generational superstar he is.

Not much to be done about it, just keep moving along to the next game.

I think this was a big part of the game...I think part of that is TT being lazy in some instances (it happend repeatedly to TT). There are lots of places where he's making "the lazy play" of standing around waiting for pucks to come to him instead of moving along the boards to more open ice or caught standing still whiffing at pucks or making blind passes and no one is there (when it works everyone acts like he has a psychic link to Aho but right now these type passes aren't connecting).

The big game changer to me was the PK where Aho or the Dman (I forget who) had an easy clear straight up the middle of the ice but the Dman passes the puck to Aho and he sends it straight to the point man and it ends up in our net 3 seconds later. Just a bone headed egregious turnover to make...especially for someone who survives on being "high iq".

The NHL rights in Finland are held by Viaplay and also the public broadcaster Yle has attained rights to show some choice games. ESPN probably is contractually obligated to block showing NHL to Finland-based customers.

I don't think ESPN + will show any games out of US. If you go to any city in Toronto it's the same b/c I'm assuming TSN has rights there.

If they’re insistent on tinkering with the lines, I’d move Teravainen and Jarvis down to play with Kotkaniemi and Svechnikov and Necas up to play with Aho. I’m not separating Svechnikov and Necas as this point.

I think the Staal line will be ok eventually, but I don’t like Martinook as the LW there. That’s an issue if it continues. If Kase is able to return, doubtful at this point, I’d plug him in there if Stastny isn’t a long term fit.

I thought Burns was pretty bad last night defensively and he made some questionable decisions in the o-zone (why are you passing up a shot from in between the circles to pass to Jordan friggin Martinook). I’ve not yet been overly impressed with him. It’ll probably take some growing pains before he is able to be most effective.

EDM is a good team and the Canes gifted them goals last night. Can’t do that and expect to win.

So what do the Canes need to add to Bear for Hoglander? (Heh) He might be a good fit as the 3rd line LW until Pacioretty is back.

I like the idea but I don't move Svech on a line /w Aho. Both of them need to be triggermen for their line...you don't want of them playing second fiddle.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I think this was a big part of the game...I think part of that is TT being lazy in some instances (it happend repeatedly to TT). There are lots of places where he's making "the lazy play" of standing around waiting for pucks to come to him instead of moving along the boards to more open ice or caught standing still whiffing at pucks or making blind passes and no one is there (when it works everyone acts like he has a psychic link to Aho but right now these type passes aren't connecting).

The big game changer to me was the PK where Aho or the Dman (I forget who) had an easy clear straight up the middle of the ice but the Dman passes the puck to Aho and he sends it straight to the point man and it ends up in our net 3 seconds later. Just a bone headed egregious turnover to make...especially for someone who survives on being "high iq".



I don't think ESPN + will show any games out of US. If you go to any city in Toronto it's the same b/c I'm assuming TSN has rights there.



I like the idea but I don't move Svech on a line /w Aho. Both of them need to be triggermen for their line...you don't want of them playing second fiddle.

TT seems to have lost the plot last couple of years. I wonder why he hasn’t improved?

 

[OBXer]

I put hockey aside this summer, training camp and exhibition season. I’m stil learning what the changes mean to this team.

I was encouraged by our tenacity to stay in the game last night. I’m still don’t know if our older players both existing and additions have reached the point of diminishing return.

The Oil were a better team last night but not by that much. You can’t win them all

 

[bleedgreen]

TT seems to have lost the plot last couple of years. I wonder why he hasn’t improved?

He’s past the point of physically improving, from this point it’s all mental. Contrary to what people thought of him a few years ago I think he’s pretty much the same guy. He’s no longer a featured player and he no longer gets the luxury of playing off wing. Now he has to work a lot harder and he’s always been more of a “work smarter than harder” kind of guy. That’s not Rod, not that Rod isn’t/wasn’t smart of course. Rod wants you to work all the time because it adds up to the positive over the year, and sitting in passing lanes versus just chasing down the possible pass receiver isn’t our way.

TT is not the hardest worker, he’s always used his smarts, positioning and skill to get by. He never would’ve been the player he has been for us for someone else imo. Playing with Aho on the first line and first pp propelled him.

Now he’s just got to work harder and it has not been happening the last two years imo. The transition will continue to be interesting to watch. For awhile now I could see them swapping him out for a mildly less skilled but more straight line player. It wouldn’t hurt Aho, he can play different styles with anyone.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I do think they'll move on from Teuvo at the end of the contract. They'll resign Aho, Slavin for sure. Dundon was on Adam Gold's podcast and basically said "Slavin and Aho are never playing anywhere else. Probably the same for Pesce. And I know Skjei started his career elsewhere but we want him to be here the rest of his career." when responding to Gold's question about how they hadn't sign a bunch of free agents in the past. Said the time wasn't right for those other guys but he thinks it's right for those guys now. Teravainen was not mentioned.

(He also said he thinks Jordan Staal is a better player than Rod Brind'Amour was at the same age. Gold "respectfully disagreed." Fun to remember that Dundon is still very new to hockey. )

 

[chaz4hockey]

He’s past the point of physically improving, from this point it’s all mental. Contrary to what people thought of him a few years ago I think he’s pretty much the same guy. He’s no longer a featured player and he no longer gets the luxury of playing off wing. Now he has to work a lot harder and he’s always been more of a “work smarter than harder” kind of guy. That’s not Rod, not that Rod isn’t/wasn’t smart of course. Rod wants you to work all the time because it adds up to the positive over the year, and sitting in passing lanes versus just chasing down the possible pass receiver isn’t our way.

TT is not the hardest worker, he’s always used his smarts, positioning and skill to get by. He never would’ve been the player he has been for us for someone else imo. Playing with Aho on the first line and first pp propelled him.

Now he’s just got to work harder and it has not been happening the last two years imo. The transition will continue to be interesting to watch. For awhile now I could see them swapping him out for a mildly less skilled but more straight line player. It wouldn’t hurt Aho, he can play different styles with anyone.

good post.

TT doesn’t understand that as you get older preparation and hard work are even more important. Last year should have been a signal for him. Having Rod as your coach and seeing a 37year old come in 2nd in the physical fitness test should also be signals on what’s needed. Oh well.

Fortunately, I don’t get that same vibe from Aho!!!!

 

[Stickpucker]

He’s past the point of physically improving, from this point it’s all mental. Contrary to what people thought of him a few years ago I think he’s pretty much the same guy. He’s no longer a featured player and he no longer gets the luxury of playing off wing. Now he has to work a lot harder and he’s always been more of a “work smarter than harder” kind of guy. That’s not Rod, not that Rod isn’t/wasn’t smart of course. Rod wants you to work all the time because it adds up to the positive over the year, and sitting in passing lanes versus just chasing down the possible pass receiver isn’t our way.

TT is not the hardest worker, he’s always used his smarts, positioning and skill to get by. He never would’ve been the player he has been for us for someone else imo. Playing with Aho on the first line and first pp propelled him.

Now he’s just got to work harder and it has not been happening the last two years imo. The transition will continue to be interesting to watch. For awhile now I could see them swapping him out for a mildly less skilled but more straight line player. It wouldn’t hurt Aho, he can play different styles with anyone.

Agree with all these points. I like his game a lot because he is a smart player. I typically like to see that style of game played which might be more of a European style.

On top of that he's notorious for just golfing in the off season based on the info we have. He's not doing what Crosby or even Skinner did in the off season and working on his skating, backhand, shot, etc. He also isn't doing what Burns/Chara did and changing up his diet and getting in better shape as he gets older.

He doesn't look ready for the season to start...and golfing all summer probably has something to do with that.

Maybe I'm full of crap and finn media has some interview of him busting his ass this off season and it's more of a meme to say he's just golfing.

RBA alludes to similar things when he says "he's a gamer...he doesn't like to practice but he always shows up for games".

Well hes coming out of his prime and that isn't enough to play at a high level with the best players in the world.

 

[raynman]

Didn’t Turbo generally play on the right side prior to last season? Could be a factor in his “drop off”?

 

[Chrispy]

He’s past the point of physically improving, from this point it’s all mental. Contrary to what people thought of him a few years ago I think he’s pretty much the same guy. He’s no longer a featured player and he no longer gets the luxury of playing off wing. Now he has to work a lot harder and he’s always been more of a “work smarter than harder” kind of guy. That’s not Rod, not that Rod isn’t/wasn’t smart of course. Rod wants you to work all the time because it adds up to the positive over the year, and sitting in passing lanes versus just chasing down the possible pass receiver isn’t our way.

TT is not the hardest worker, he’s always used his smarts, positioning and skill to get by. He never would’ve been the player he has been for us for someone else imo. Playing with Aho on the first line and first pp propelled him.

Now he’s just got to work harder and it has not been happening the last two years imo. The transition will continue to be interesting to watch. For awhile now I could see them swapping him out for a mildly less skilled but more straight line player. It wouldn’t hurt Aho, he can play different styles with anyone.

I agree that the physical aspects may put an upper limit on Teravainen's potential, although a mid-60s point producer on the wing with very good passing and good defense is still a valuable asset to have on a team even if he doesn't take another step forward or ever match 2018-19 again.

One question: what do you mean by "the luxury of playing off wing"? I don't think Rod is employing a wing-specific system; there's a 3rd forward who will be high but it often rotates between the forwards. I am not saying it's automatically more difficult for a player to play off wing, but "luxury" makes it sound like you think it's inherently easier to play off wing.

I do think if Teravainen specifically plays better off wing, it makes more sense to put him there. Yes, there's a glut of RH forwards right now (never thought I'd say that about Carolina) but I think they can make him fit there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

To be clear, though, TT absolutely scores that goal if it’s anyone other than McDavid behind him. All he needed to do was shoot it into the open net. The one player in the world fast enough to get back and cleanly take away the shot happened to be right there.

If that puck goes in the net we’re talking about how he broke his slump just in time to help seal a big comeback.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Only quibble I have with you in all of this is that I think the Kane goal was more Andersen's fault that Burns. Other than that, polite golf claps all around.

Burns should have shot the puck instead of that slap pass to martinook, who of course botched the deflection by 15 feet. So yea it was Burns.

 

[iCanada]

Btw: our bad luck that sabres have embarrassed the Oiler and now the flames just before we play them

Is OK, Flames a bunch of pretenders. Kick their ass. <3

 

[Tryamw]

Glad you guys mostly enjoyed the game and our broadcast.

Care for a Pulju for Necas swap?

Including McDavid or Drai as well?

 

[MisterDobz]

Why all the TiVo hating? The entire first line sucks right now. More than half of Aho‘s points are on the power play, he only has 3 points 5 on 5, TiVo has one point and everybody’s Darling, Jarvis has 2. TiVo has taken more shots than Jarvis and both own a +3 (Aho is even). Last year TiVo was the 3rd leading scorer on this team only 5 points behind Svetch and he missed a few games due to injuries. His +/- has always been in the top 2-3 on the team.

That line will come around, they always have, i have no reason to think that they won’t, despite looking awful at times this season.

The big story of the season so far is Necas. Last season he was a disappointment, clearly this year he is working extremely hard to be a factor on the ice, and he certainly has become that, I’m not sure how positive a factor he is though. He is fun to watch, and skates wonderfully, but he is nearly as likely to set up a scoring opportunity for the opposing team instead of the canes. in last nights game, that Freddie disaster behind the net happened because Marty was skating around brilliantly in the offensive zone, then made a candy cane pass back to a vacant point and the puck dribbled all the way back to the canes zone. There was no icing because a cane passed it so Freddie felt he had to play it, and the rest is history. He’s given up multiple 2 on 1s with bad passes and just mishandling the puck. his shooting is awful, but he generates so many chances that some are bound to end up in the back of the net. He is a lot of fun to watch, he has made some brilliant plays. If he can minimize the bad plays while keeping the high energy, he will be a huge factor for the rest of the season.

the biggest disappointment so far for me has been Kokomiami. At best, he’s been invisible, at worst, well we saw that last night with a minute to go.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Why all the TiVo hating? The entire first line sucks right now. More than half of Aho‘s points are on the power play, he only has 3 points 5 on 5, TiVo has one point and everybody’s Darling, Jarvis has 2. TiVo has taken more shots than Jarvis and both own a +3 (Aho is even). Last year TiVo was the 3rd leading scorer on this team only 5 points behind Svetch and he missed a few games due to injuries. His +/- has always been in the top 2-3 on the team.

That line will come around, they always have, i have no reason to think that they won’t, despite looking awful at times this season.

The big story of the season so far is Necas. Last season he was a disappointment, clearly this year he is working extremely hard to be a factor on the ice, and he certainly has become that, I’m not sure how positive a factor he is though. He is fun to watch, and skates wonderfully, but he is nearly as likely to set up a scoring opportunity for the opposing team instead of the canes. in last nights game, that Freddie disaster behind the net happened because Marty was skating around brilliantly in the offensive zone, then made a candy cane pass back to a vacant point and the puck dribbled all the way back to the canes zone. There was no icing because a cane passed it so Freddie felt he had to play it, and the rest is history. He’s given up multiple 2 on 1s with bad passes and just mishandling the puck. his shooting is awful, but he generates so many chances that some are bound to end up in the back of the net. He is a lot of fun to watch, he has made some brilliant plays. If he can minimize the bad plays while keeping the high energy, he will be a huge factor for the rest of the season.

the biggest disappointment so far for me has been Kokomiami. At best, he’s been invisible, at worst, well we saw that last night with a minute to go.

Wow..will just have to disagree RE: necas and JK. Is it possible that fast start of svetch and necas is due to center play. Plus necas has been mostly lights out.

Every player will make mistakes time and again particularly young ones.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree TT hasn't looked good this season so far and even has looked bad in some games. I'm a bit confused about the talk of his play last year or even prior.

17/18: 82GP, 23G, 64P
18/19: 82GP, 21G, 76P
19/20: 68GP, 15G, 63P (18G, 76P for 82 games)
20/21: 21GP due to bad concussion: 5G, 15P (20G, 59P for 82 games but small sample size)
21/22: 77GP, 22G, 65G (23G, 69P for 82 games).

His Points/60 all situations:

17/18: 2.77
18/19: 3.1
19/20: 2.9
20/21: 2.61 (concussion year)
21/22: 2.86

Other than his concussion year, his production has been pretty consistent year in and year out.

What we need from him is to have solid 2-way play and put up 20-25G, 65-70 points this season. I'll give it time before writing him off.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

If we need to make a tweak to help the 3rd line (where we miss Nino so much now).

Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Statsny (till Patches) - KK - Necas
Turbo - Staal - Fast

When Patches comes in, Statsny to the 4th line center.

Hard no on splitting up Svech and Necas from me dawg

 

[Blueline Bomber]

KK isn't putting up the points, but he's a big part of that line. He's rock solid in the faceoff circle, and he's been doing a good job of creating time and space for Necas and Svech to work their magic.

And I say this as someone who was extremely doubtful about his transition to 2C

 

[bleedgreen]

I agree that the physical aspects may put an upper limit on Teravainen's potential, although a mid-60s point producer on the wing with very good passing and good defense is still a valuable asset to have on a team even if he doesn't take another step forward or ever match 2018-19 again.

One question: what do you mean by "the luxury of playing off wing"? I don't think Rod is employing a wing-specific system; there's a 3rd forward who will be high but it often rotates between the forwards. I am not saying it's automatically more difficult for a player to play off wing, but "luxury" makes it sound like you think it's inherently easier to play off wing.

I do think if Teravainen specifically plays better off wing, it makes more sense to put him there. Yes, there's a glut of RH forwards right now (never thought I'd say that about Carolina) but I think they can make him fit there.

He’s a player that likes to use his lateral mobility to take the middle on his off wing and the vast majority of his time he’s not only been able to play there - he does it with Aho. In the past he’s been less effective attacking from his strong side.

I see Rod as a very old school North American style coach. He loves guys attacking in straight lines and I do believe he prefers guys on their strong side. Yes there’s examples of where we strayed from that but I think it’s mostly out of necessity. TT is really the only guy he plays off wing, and it’s because he’s been good at it with Aho imo.

We have more depth now, we don’t even need to play TT with Aho. We want Jarvis up there and obviously Rod wanted Jarvis on his strong side. Yes sometimes they switch through the neutral zone and Rod gives them some rope there but I think all things being equal he sees them attacking on their strong sides in the classic NA way. I agree the third man in is supposed to stay high but I do think TT is going to play a lot more on the LW unless both he and Jarvis are always lining up on their off wing. I could see them doing that sometimes for set plays with offensive zone draws.

And @Boom Boom Apathy i don’t think I’m throwing away TT at all. I never had the same expectations others have of him but I also absolutely see value in him. I’m glad we rely on him less now to be honest. He makes a much better support player than a primary one imo.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And @Boom Boom Apathy i don’t think I’m throwing away TT at all. I never had the same expectations others have of him but I also absolutely see value in him. I’m glad we rely on him less now to be honest. He makes a much better support player than a primary one imo.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to your comments on him and my statement about "writing him off", was a bit of hyperbole on my part. I was more talking about the comments such as "he's lost the plot the last couple of years" and "last year should have been a signal from him" and "his drop off", etc....

The difference between is scoring rate this past season vs. his best season in Carolina is 1 assist every ~14-15 games. That's within the statistical noise. His TOI has been slightly less, because of the concussion 2 seasons ago and also as you said, with the emergence of Svech, Necas and even Jarvis, and the adds of guys like Trocheck (and hopefully Patches and Stastny), we don't need to rely on him as much as we did in 18/19 or 19/20.

He's started this season poorly and there has always been rumors, valid or not, of his off-season conditioning as @Stickpucker alluded to. Hopefully he gets going soon as we'll need him more once one of Aho, Svech or Necas inevitably cools off. If we get the 20-25 goals, 65ish+ points, he'll have done well.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah, I wasn't referring to your comments on him and my statement about "writing him off", was a bit of hyperbole on my part. I was more talking about the comments such as "he's lost the plot the last couple of years" and "last year should have been a signal from him" and "his drop off", etc....

The difference between is scoring rate this past season vs. his best season in Carolina is 1 assist every ~14-15 games. That's within the statistical noise. His TOI has been slightly less, because of the concussion 2 seasons ago and also as you said, with the emergence of Svech, Necas and even Jarvis, and the adds of guys like Trocheck (and hopefully Patches and Stastny), we don't need to rely on him as much as we did in 18/19 or 19/20.

He's started this season poorly and there has always been rumors, valid or not, of his off-season conditioning as @Stickpucker alluded to. Hopefully he gets going soon as we'll need him more once one of Aho, Svech or Necas inevitably cools off. If we get the 20-25 goals, 65ish+ points, he'll have done well.

No worries and I get it.

As far as his off seasons even when there were people suggesting he’s somehow a selke candidate I’ve always thought he’s the laziest player Rod would allow around the team. I would be shocked to hear he works out hard in the summer. Everything I’ve ever heard around him is jokes about practice habits, and it’s always seemed Rod has always been pushing him to work harder….because he needs the push. There was a time where this player was a necessity for this team because of his relationship with Aho on and off the ice as well as the lack of team skill/depth that required we get everything we could from him. I think he’s always gotten away with a bit of a different attitude out of need from us.

I never really cared to be honest, I still like him as a player and it’s been a mutually beneficial relationship with this team. I presume he’ll wake up and contribute. Our needing him to be consistent that way was a team flaw, and one that we are fixing. Having a legit top six in the playoffs will help us instead of expecting too much from a top two.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

If TT worked out in the offseason he would be a top 5 player in the league

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If TT worked out in the offseason he would be a top 5 player in the league

I agree. He'd be top 5 if he worked out in the offseason, AND all of the following players retired: McDavid, Makar, Draisaitl, Eichel, Aho, Kane, MacKinnon, Crosby, Ovechking, Panarin, Matthews, Bergeron, Pastrnak, Kaprizov, Marchand, Barkov, Svechnikov, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Zibanejad, Marner, Huberdeau, Hedman, Fox, and probably 20 others I missed.

 

[Chrispy]

He’s a player that likes to use his lateral mobility to take the middle on his off wing and the vast majority of his time he’s not only been able to play there - he does it with Aho. In the past he’s been less effective attacking from his strong side.

I see Rod as a very old school North American style coach. He loves guys attacking in straight lines and I do believe he prefers guys on their strong side. Yes there’s examples of where we strayed from that but I think it’s mostly out of necessity. TT is really the only guy he plays off wing, and it’s because he’s been good at it with Aho imo.

We have more depth now, we don’t even need to play TT with Aho. We want Jarvis up there and obviously Rod wanted Jarvis on his strong side. Yes sometimes they switch through the neutral zone and Rod gives them some rope there but I think all things being equal he sees them attacking on their strong sides in the classic NA way. I agree the third man in is supposed to stay high but I do think TT is going to play a lot more on the LW unless both he and Jarvis are always lining up on their off wing. I could see them doing that sometimes for set plays with offensive zone draws.

And @Boom Boom Apathy i don’t think I’m throwing away TT at all. I never had the same expectations others have of him but I also absolutely see value in him. I’m glad we rely on him less now to be honest. He makes a much better support player than a primary one imo.

I don’t think TT is just good playing his off wing with Aho; he’s just better as a RW. And I think insisting he play LW because he’s left handed is an error on Rod’s part.

I think we have enough evidence that Teravainen plays better on the right, so make space for him on the right. Left handed or not he’s one of the 3 best RW on the team. If that means dropping Fast to the 4th line so be it.