GDT: Game 4 - ESPN Says this is a Finals Preview - If we win, I agree! - Canes vs Oil

[ujju2]

She is rockin out to that Rush

We certainly love our Rush up in Canada

Good game folks, as always.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The game exposed Statsny and Staal can’t play together against the better and faster teams. RBA and co recognized it before the 1st was over and we got 3rd line Martinook. The Aho line needs a big body to clean things up.

Statsny-Aho-Jarvis
2nd line
Turbo-Staal-Fast
Marty-Stepan-Noesen

Statsny isn’t the perfect solution here but it isn’t the worst idea until Patches is back. Statsny can play his positionally sound game and be the clean up guy around the net.

A couple brain farts less and/or hitting half the open net opportunities in this game and we win.
Campbell was an open abyss and we missed our opportunities.

The top line was pwned last night in 5v5. 36% CF.
Substituting Martinook for Statsny saw the line go up 20+% in CF. To be fair, the team was playing poorly before the switch so it isn’t an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

IMO the story so far this year is that our top 2 lines are showing up in a big way and no one else is. Yesterday was such a strange departure from what we’ve been used to over the last few years which is just major system-style hockey with every line coming at you in waves. Instead, it felt a lot more like watching the Rangers or even the Oilers themselves - wait for our big line to come out on the ice and make something happen, and simply brace yourselves for the play in between.

The Staal line, to me, has looked like an elite 4th line not an elite 3rd. I know that part of this is simply that we’re missing a 30 goal scorer in Pacioretty. The lack of depth has been a challenge that has been papered over through 4 games by Svechnikov, Necas, and Aho. I like Jarvis but he’s not at that level yet. TT hasn’t been a difference maker in my opinion. In fact, the whole 1st line has sort of been off, Aho is doing a lot of carrying. I don’t think you can split up line 2 because while KK is a very clear third wheel on that line he’s an effective one, there’s a chemistry there.

I kinda like the idea above of swapping some line 1 and line 3 parts to shake things up. Stastny is the natural option, but I admit I haven’t been hugely impressed. Perhaps giving him some firepower awakens his offense instead of asking him to play a heavier, “Staal line” type role.

 

[Chrispy]

IMO the story so far this year is that our top 2 lines are showing up in a big way and no one else is. Yesterday was such a strange departure from what we’ve been used to over the last few years which is just major system-style hockey with every line coming at you in waves. Instead, it felt a lot more like watching the Rangers or even the Oilers themselves - wait for our big line to come out on the ice and make something happen, and simply brace yourselves for the play in between.

The Staal line, to me, has looked like an elite 4th line not an elite 3rd. I know that part of this is simply that we’re missing a 30 goal scorer in Pacioretty. The lack of depth has been a challenge that has been papered over through 4 games by Svechnikov, Necas, and Aho. I like Jarvis but he’s not at that level yet. TT hasn’t been a difference maker in my opinion. In fact, the whole 1st line has sort of been off, Aho is doing a lot of carrying. I don’t think you can split up line 2 because while KK is a very clear third wheel on that line he’s an effective one, there’s a chemistry there.

I kinda like the idea above of swapping some line 1 and line 3 parts to shake things up. Stastny is the natural option, but I admit I haven’t been hugely impressed. Perhaps giving him some firepower awakens his offense instead of asking him to play a heavier, “Staal line” type role.

The top 2 lines are showing up offensively. But despite scoring a hat trick last night, Svech was -1 on the day. Aho had 3 assists and was -2.

The top 2 lines got taken advantage of by Edmonton. In some ways, this is similar to the playoffs last year, where the top lines get exposed going best-on-best when Rod doesn't have last change.

Yes, it's Edmonton. Yes, it's McDavid and Drai and RNH. But that's the level of talent you face deep in the playoffs, and the top lines were not up to the task defensively, just as the lower lines weren't up to the task offensively.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Through the first 1.5 periods I saw last night, Freddie just looked completely off. There were a number of occasions where a cross-ice pass caught him off guard and completely beat him across the net, but the Oils flubbed them. Granted we had a few ourselves like that shanking on wide open nets. Definitely being drug along by our top 2 lines, we're desperately missing Nino on that Staal line, Stastny just hasn't brought anything yet. Burns hasn't brought the punch we expected yet, we'll say he's still figuring out the system but TDA was a much quicker contributor and honestly wasn't burned as much as Burns so far. We're still prone to doing dumb shit that instantly turns into a grade-A scoring chance, probably our biggest achilles heel of the past 3 years. We can dominate for 50 min and lose a game with the other 10 min. Hope Svetch and Necas can continue what they've been doing, and Turbo finally wakes the **** up

 

[chaz4hockey]

The top 2 lines are showing up offensively. But despite scoring a hat trick last night, Svech was -1 on the day. Aho had 3 assists and was -2.

The top 2 lines got taken advantage of by Edmonton. In some ways, this is similar to the playoffs last year, where the top lines get exposed going best-on-best when Rod doesn't have last change.

Yes, it's Edmonton. Yes, it's McDavid and Drai and RNH. But that's the level of talent you face deep in the playoffs, and the top lines were not up to the task defensively, just as the lower lines weren't up to the task offensively.

Good point although I’d suggest Freddie plays to his expected level and +/- is different.

This is the year that perhaps Staal should be a 4th liner. Season is young…we will see.

Btw: Stasny to date just looks like a slightly better Domi.

 

[chaz4hockey]

IMO the story so far this year is that our top 2 lines are showing up in a big way and no one else is. Yesterday was such a strange departure from what we’ve been used to over the last few years which is just major system-style hockey with every line coming at you in waves. Instead, it felt a lot more like watching the Rangers or even the Oilers themselves - wait for our big line to come out on the ice and make something happen, and simply brace yourselves for the play in between.

The Staal line, to me, has looked like an elite 4th line not an elite 3rd. I know that part of this is simply that we’re missing a 30 goal scorer in Pacioretty. The lack of depth has been a challenge that has been papered over through 4 games by Svechnikov, Necas, and Aho. I like Jarvis but he’s not at that level yet. TT hasn’t been a difference maker in my opinion. In fact, the whole 1st line has sort of been off, Aho is doing a lot of carrying. I don’t think you can split up line 2 because while KK is a very clear third wheel on that line he’s an effective one, there’s a chemistry there.

I kinda like the idea above of swapping some line 1 and line 3 parts to shake things up. Stastny is the natural option, but I admit I haven’t been hugely impressed. Perhaps giving him some firepower awakens his offense instead of asking him to play a heavier, “Staal line” type role.

TT has been the one I would pull off the Aho line and move to Staal’s when Patches comes back. TT has been awful…does he work out over the summer?

Agree with POV that bottom two lines are horse manure so far and needs a shakeup. However, it needs new pieces. Losing Kase to injury has been impactful.

Time for Drury?

Btw: bottom 2 lines personnel are ones that typically can be fixed at the trade deadline.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Btw: our bad luck that sabres have embarrassed the Oiler and now the flames just before we play them

 

[Unsustainable]

sorry holmes. espn+ vpn works pretty well if yas haven't tried.

Yup it does. I was set to Finland as my country and ESPN kept blocking, changed it to New York, and it worked.

 

[Unsustainable]

If we need to make a tweak to help the 3rd line (where we miss Nino so much now).

Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Statsny (till Patches) - KK - Necas
Turbo - Staal - Fast

When Patches comes in, Statsny to the 4th line center.

 

[HisIceness]

Since Svech got a hatty, I'll hold off rioting. But geez let's clean up the penalties (lol) and not give up shorthanded goals.

 

[spockBokk]

If they’re insistent on tinkering with the lines, I’d move Teravainen and Jarvis down to play with Kotkaniemi and Svechnikov and Necas up to play with Aho. I’m not separating Svechnikov and Necas as this point.

I think the Staal line will be ok eventually, but I don’t like Martinook as the LW there. That’s an issue if it continues. If Kase is able to return, doubtful at this point, I’d plug him in there if Stastny isn’t a long term fit.

I thought Burns was pretty bad last night defensively and he made some questionable decisions in the o-zone (why are you passing up a shot from in between the circles to pass to Jordan friggin Martinook). I’ve not yet been overly impressed with him. It’ll probably take some growing pains before he is able to be most effective.

EDM is a good team and the Canes gifted them goals last night. Can’t do that and expect to win.

So what do the Canes need to add to Bear for Hoglander? (Heh) He might be a good fit as the 3rd line LW until Pacioretty is back.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If they’re insistent on tinkering with the lines, I’d move Teravainen and Jarvis down to play with Kotkaniemi and Svechnikov and Necas up to play with Aho. I’m not separating Svechnikov and Necas as this point.

I think the Staal line will be ok eventually, but I don’t like Martinook as the LW there. That’s an issue if it continues. If Kase is able to return, doubtful at this point, I’d plug him in there if Stastny isn’t a long term fit.

I thought Burns was pretty bad last night defensively and he made some questionable decisions in the o-zone (why are you passing up a shot from in between the circles to pass to Jordan friggin Martinook). I’ve not yet been overly impressed with him. It’ll probably take some growing pains before he is able to be most effective.

EDM is a good team and the Canes gifted them goals last night. Can’t do that and expect to win.

So what do the Canes need to add to Bear for Hoglander? (Heh) He might be a good fit as the 3rd line LW until Pacioretty is back.

KK and Turbo are the same player basically. we shouldnt put them on the same line

 

[bleedgreen]

IMO the story so far this year is that our top 2 lines are showing up in a big way and no one else is. Yesterday was such a strange departure from what we’ve been used to over the last few years which is just major system-style hockey with every line coming at you in waves. Instead, it felt a lot more like watching the Rangers or even the Oilers themselves - wait for our big line to come out on the ice and make something happen, and simply brace yourselves for the play in between.

The Staal line, to me, has looked like an elite 4th line not an elite 3rd. I know that part of this is simply that we’re missing a 30 goal scorer in Pacioretty. The lack of depth has been a challenge that has been papered over through 4 games by Svechnikov, Necas, and Aho. I like Jarvis but he’s not at that level yet. TT hasn’t been a difference maker in my opinion. In fact, the whole 1st line has sort of been off, Aho is doing a lot of carrying. I don’t think you can split up line 2 because while KK is a very clear third wheel on that line he’s an effective one, there’s a chemistry there.

I kinda like the idea above of swapping some line 1 and line 3 parts to shake things up. Stastny is the natural option, but I admit I haven’t been hugely impressed. Perhaps giving him some firepower awakens his offense instead of asking him to play a heavier, “Staal line” type role.

The Staal line has taken a dip without Nino. Stastny isn’t the answer yet, and I agree TT has not been a difference maker. I think the times he has over the last couple of years has been inconsistent, but we’ve had the depth for that to not be an issue. Koko has been essentially a warm body between the two studs, who are playing so well Staal could be centering them and they’d still be producing. He hasn’t been bad but the plays he makes to them are very straightforward passes and he’s done a good job of clearing the zone. That’s fourth line level requirements, I think we’d be singing a different tune about him if the other two weren’t crushing it.

It’s the first couple of weeks so no biggie about any of it yet. Over the season it’ll be interesting to see how the lack of Nino on the Staal line affects things, if Koko can be more invaluable and if the first line can be a first line. Imo you’re right we’re killing time until the dangerous guys come back out and only Svech/Necas have been truly dangerous with any consistency with Aho starting to get more involved too.

I’m glad that what some wanted about Necas did not happen. It’s clear he just had a lack of confidence that went beyond his ability to turn it around along with not being a top six role with any consistency. It’s very obvious he wants to prove what he can do this year, and we are lucky for that.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

FYI, guys without a point thru 4 games:

- Coghlan, de Haan, Chatfield (the bottom pair)
- Kase (one game)
- Staal, Fast

I do think this year is going to be Staal's "graceful" transition into 4C moving forward. I wouldn't be surprised to see him/Fast become the "4th" line as the season goes on, especially if Drury ever gets his shot. Or, if Kase is in fact not done, maybe it becomes Aho-Necas-KK-Staal down the middle, and that way you actually can have Martinook-Staal-Fast as a 4th line that has good chemistry and doesn't get caved in on the road.

Removing Staal from the PP is going to take away some point production, and removing Nino from his wing will do the same. Plus, we're only talking about 36 points from last year to begin with. In a contract year and with the FAs we have coming up the next 2 years, I imagine limiting Staal's counting stats will help quite a bit.

I’m glad that what some wanted about Necas did not happen. It’s clear he just had a lack of confidence that went beyond his ability to turn it around along with not being a top six role with any consistency. It’s very obvious he wants to prove what he can do this year, and we are lucky for that.

Well, that $3m payday was probably less than half of what he would've guessed if you asked him in June of 2021, too... that certainly doesn't hurt the "prove it" mindset.

 

[Stickpucker]

I think there is something fundamental not being talked about...the borg went out and got vets who "want to win and have experience". And that's great...but the problem with that is they're not nearly as fast as some of these young guys.

4 years ago we were very fast and more physical but less skilled. That lends itself very well to this forecheck system and playoff hockey.

Guys like Staal, Stastny, Stepan...heck even Fast...can get exposed for a lack of foot speed against teams like Edmonton and Colorado. We also aren't that big on the whole so it makes matchups tougher for Rod.

The funny thing is the first line gets exposed vs other teams for lack of size in the playoffs. I think that's why you can find guys like Aho and Jarvis a little lower than they would be and everyone chases those tangibles more than the Canes have the last number of years. It's why peppering in picks like Nichuskin are such a big deal.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The top 2 lines are showing up offensively. But despite scoring a hat trick last night, Svech was -1 on the day. Aho had 3 assists and was -2.

The top 2 lines got taken advantage of by Edmonton. In some ways, this is similar to the playoffs last year, where the top lines get exposed going best-on-best when Rod doesn't have last change.

Yes, it's Edmonton. Yes, it's McDavid and Drai and RNH. But that's the level of talent you face deep in the playoffs, and the top lines were not up to the task defensively, just as the lower lines weren't up to the task offensively.

If you breakdown the +/-, it really isn't indicative of what you are suggesting. Edmonton scored 6 goals:

2 PPG (no minus's for any Canes player)
1 SHG (- for anyone on the PP, but it's not indicative of the top two lines being taken advantage of)
1 ENG (- for anyone on the ice, but again not a case of top two lines being taken advantage of. Clearly the best offensive players are the only ones that will be on the ice in an EN situation so Aho and Svech will get a - there)
1 Horrible misplay by Andersen. Svech, Necas and Aho (who just jumped onto the ice as Kotkaniemi changed) all got a - because of it. Again, not indicative of that line being taken advantage of.
1 ES goal, the 2-1 for Kane (I believe Staal, Fast and Martinook were on the ice, but it was Burns that caused that).

Svech, Kotkaniemi, Necas dominated possession numbers and were in no way taken advantage of by Edmonton. Aho's line though was caved in and definitely lost that battle so no argument there. Other than the ENG and Horrible misplay by Andersen, none of them were scored on 5v5.

 

[Derailed75]

We suck again!

 

[Chrispy]

If you breakdown the +/-, it really isn't indicative of what you are suggesting. Edmonton scored 6 goals:

2 PPG (no minus's for any Canes player)
1 SHG (- for anyone on the PP, but it's not indicative of the top two lines being taken advantage of)
1 ENG (- for anyone on the ice, but again not a case of top two lines being taken advantage of. Clearly the best offensive players are the only ones that will be on the ice in an EN situation so Aho and Svech will get a - there)
1 Horrible misplay by Andersen. Svech, Necas and Aho (who just jumped onto the ice as Kotkaniemi changed) all got a - because of it. Again, not indicative of that line being taken advantage of.
1 ES goal, the 2-1 for Kane (I believe Staal, Fast and Martinook were on the ice, but it was Burns that caused that).

Svech, Kotkaniemi, Necas dominated possession numbers and were in no way taken advantage of by Edmonton. Aho's line though was caved in and definitely lost that battle so no argument there. Other than the ENG and Horrible misplay by Andersen, none of them were scored on 5v5.

I'd argue the SHG is an example of Edmonton taking advantage of the top players given that's who is out there for the PP, but point taken on the others.

I also couldn't figure out how Kotkaniemi stayed 0 despite the others. I assumed it was the SHG, but a line change during the misplay explains it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

FYI, guys without a point thru 4 games:

- Coghlan, de Haan, Chatfield (the bottom pair)
- Kase (one game)
- Staal, Fast

On top of that.
- Kotkaniemi has 2 secondary assists while playing with the top scorers on the team.
- Teravainen has 1 secondary assist
- Stastny has 1 secondary assist
- Burns has 3 secondary assists, only 1 of them 5v5.
- As you said, Staal and Fast are scoreless

The offensive of this team has been pretty much carried by Svech, Necas, Aho and to a lesser extent Jarvis. It's still very early though, but the some of the guys we are counting on for offense need to get going.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'd argue the SHG is an example of Edmonton taking advantage of the top players given that's who is out there for the PP, but point taken on the others.

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I don't agree and here's why:
1) I was responding to the notion that Edmonton's top lines (with McDavid Draisaitl as you mentioned) were taking advantage of them. Neither of those two were on the ice for the SHG. It was their #3 (Bouchard), #5 Defensemen (Kulak), a 3rd liner (McLeod) that scored, and RNH (who you mentioned). So really no top line player and only 1 second line player out there on the kill.
2) If you watch what led to the 2-1, it was a bad timed change. Watching the highlight, someone went off the ice and Necas jumped on, but he was already behind the 2-1. The 3 forwards deep had no idea that there was only 1 guy back due to the change. They weren't taken advantage of, it was a terrible change that gave an odd man rush.
3) The strategy of a PP is totally different than 5v5. The lines aren't together and the style of play is different. SH goals are more of a fluke due to a misplay (or in this case a bad change) as opposed to being taken advantage of.

Just my $0.02.

I also couldn't figure out how Kotkaniemi stayed 0 despite the others. I assumed it was the SHG, but a line change during the misplay explains it.

Yeah, I was wondering that also which is why I went back and watched it.

I'm not arguing that Aho's line struggled against Edmonton's top line, it certainly did so your point there is very valid. The 2nd line didn't struggle at all though, and actually controlled the play.

Honestly, I wish they'd do away with +/- when it comes to special teams and EN situations. It really makes the stat much less useful IMO, not that it's always useful to begin with. I remember looking at Pesce's great +/- a few years back and there were a lot of factors like that that really helped his numbers vs. Faulk/Slavin. No PP, lots of PK, never on the ice when we pulled a goalie but always on the ice when the other team did.

 

[Lempo]

Yup it does. I was set to Finland as my country and ESPN kept blocking, changed it to New York, and it worked.

The NHL rights in Finland are held by Viaplay and also the public broadcaster Yle has attained rights to show some choice games. ESPN probably is contractually obligated to block showing NHL to Finland-based customers.

 

[To Be Determined]

that was stupid by Skjei

i'll take 'posts the 100% correlate to when i went to bed' for $2000, alex ('s ghost)

 

[MinJaBen]

If you breakdown the +/-, it really isn't indicative of what you are suggesting. Edmonton scored 6 goals:

2 PPG (no minus's for any Canes player)
1 SHG (- for anyone on the PP, but it's not indicative of the top two lines being taken advantage of)
1 ENG (- for anyone on the ice, but again not a case of top two lines being taken advantage of. Clearly the best offensive players are the only ones that will be on the ice in an EN situation so Aho and Svech will get a - there)
1 Horrible misplay by Andersen. Svech, Necas and Aho (who just jumped onto the ice as Kotkaniemi changed) all got a - because of it. Again, not indicative of that line being taken advantage of.
1 ES goal, the 2-1 for Kane (I believe Staal, Fast and Martinook were on the ice, but it was Burns that caused that).

Svech, Kotkaniemi, Necas dominated possession numbers and were in no way taken advantage of by Edmonton. Aho's line though was caved in and definitely lost that battle so no argument there. Other than the ENG and Horrible misplay by Andersen, none of them were scored on 5v5.

Only quibble I have with you in all of this is that I think the Kane goal was more Andersen's fault that Burns. Other than that, polite golf claps all around.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I saw that game as a case of the best player in the world being the difference maker. McDavid's backcheck on Teuvo changed the entire game, and was a play that 99% of players could not have made. With the home-ice matchups keeping him away from our shutdown defenders, he goes out there and dishes 4 points like it's nothing. Countless times he controlled pucks that we would usually contest, secure, and clear. We likely win that game if McDavid is a league-average #1C rather than the generational superstar he is.

Not much to be done about it, just keep moving along to the next game.