Post-Game Talk: Game #3 - Canucks 5, Flames 4 in OT: "Bork, bork, bork!" - Eddie Lack

[Sharpshooter]

Is it to soon to start the "Richardson>Lapierre" debate? I loved Lappy, probably more then at least 95% of you.. But man Richardson has been impressive.

Yes.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Is it to soon to start the "Richardson>Lapierre" debate? I loved Lappy, probably more then at least 95% of you.. But man Richardson has been impressive.

Richardson has no penalties so far, so that's a big '+' in his favour. Lapierre would have a couple just on reputation alone.

 

[biturbo19]

Hamhuis must be hurt. He was once again terrible. Just gift wrapping chance after chance for the Flames. Mobility seems there but his decision making is brutal. If he keeps this up Corrado might be back up here sooner than expected. Rightfully benched in the third

It's certainly possible that Hamhuis is 'hurt', but i'm not totally convinced.

He really hasn't looked good in Torts system and it concerns me a bit in that Hamhuis has essentially played his whole NHL career under two very similar systems. That Nashville system, and under AV here. Both very rigidly structured, passive type of systems. Torts system is an entirely different beast and when you see a guy like Hamhuis looking that lost/confused at times...it really makes me wonder.

I hope we don't have like an 'Anti-Ballard' scenario shaping up here. ie. A passive player having trouble adapting to an 'aggresive' system...the opposite of an aggressive player like Ballard having a really rough time adapting to a more passive 'safe' system here. Granted, even 'bad Hamhuis' hasn't looked anywhere near the ballpark of 'bad Ballard'. But it's concerning because we need Hamhuis to be a rock on our blueline...and thus far in the season, Bieksa has looked like the 'steadying presence' on that pairing much of the time. That's...unnerving.

 

[DennisReynolds]

All of Hamhuis's mistakes doesn't really say that he's hurt. The mistakes were mostly pinching at the wrong time and the opponent having an odd men rush, and just pure mistakes where the puck bounced or whiffed at the puck.

 

[SighReally]

It's certainly possible that Hamhuis is 'hurt', but i'm not totally convinced.

He really hasn't looked good in Torts system and it concerns me a bit in that Hamhuis has essentially played his whole NHL career under two very similar systems. That Nashville system, and under AV here. Both very rigidly structured, passive type of systems. Torts system is an entirely different beast and when you see a guy like Hamhuis looking that lost/confused at times...it really makes me wonder.

I hope we don't have like an 'Anti-Ballard' scenario shaping up here. ie. A passive player having trouble adapting to an 'aggresive' system...the opposite of an aggressive player like Ballard having a really rough time adapting to a more passive 'safe' system here. Granted, even 'bad Hamhuis' hasn't looked anywhere near the ballpark of 'bad Ballard'. But it's concerning because we need Hamhuis to be a rock on our blueline...and thus far in the season, Bieksa has looked like the 'steadying presence' on that pairing much of the time. That's...unnerving.

Definitely jumping the gun. Even when you disregard the fact that Hamhuis was definitely injured in the pre-season (as seen by those missed practices and games), you forget that it took Hamhuis about ten-fifteen games to adjust to AV's system when he was first signed. Plus, a big part of AV's system was aggressive pinching from the blue line, which Hamhuis excelled at; I doubt it's the aggressiveness of the system that's causing Hamhuis problems.

It's been two games in the season. Just as much as everyone has been raving about Santorelli and Richardson, we've also been off the deep end about Hamhuis. Bob Mckenzie put it best: best to wait until at least three weeks until you start making any definite conclusions.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Torts said the two highlights of the game for him were the play of Eddie Lack and the play of Ryan Stanton. He suggested the team's comeback wasn't just because of the line juggling but because they really wanted to win it for Lack. He also heaped tons of praise on Stanton. Said he has 'jam' and 'moxy'. Seriously though, he's clearly a big Stanton fan.

Here is the video:



And Santorelli:

 

[Wetcoaster]

All of Hamhuis's mistakes doesn't really say that he's hurt. The mistakes were mostly pinching at the wrong time and the opponent having an odd men rush, and just pure mistakes where the puck bounced or whiffed at the puck.

To me it says he is hurting and likely a groin issue.

He is just a touch slow so it looks like bad decisions and the same with his puck handling. The real red flag for me is his skating - Hamhuis is so smooth and seems to just glide but right now he looks to be really working when he skates particularly on pivots and crossovers.

Remember when Garrison looked much the same way in the first part of last season when he was recovering from a groin strain.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

It's certainly possible that Hamhuis is 'hurt', but i'm not totally convinced.

He really hasn't looked good in Torts system and it concerns me a bit in that Hamhuis has essentially played his whole NHL career under two very similar systems. That Nashville system, and under AV here. Both very rigidly structured, passive type of systems. Torts system is an entirely different beast and when you see a guy like Hamhuis looking that lost/confused at times...it really makes me wonder.

I hope we don't have like an 'Anti-Ballard' scenario shaping up here. ie. A passive player having trouble adapting to an 'aggresive' system...the opposite of an aggressive player like Ballard having a really rough time adapting to a more passive 'safe' system here. Granted, even 'bad Hamhuis' hasn't looked anywhere near the ballpark of 'bad Ballard'. But it's concerning because we need Hamhuis to be a rock on our blueline...and thus far in the season, Bieksa has looked like the 'steadying presence' on that pairing much of the time. That's...unnerving.

I also have noticed he's not playing his best and a bit out of place here and there.

It's way to earlier to be unnerving imo.

Let's see how he is at ten games. He's such a talent maybe he'll burst out an offensive game in this system once he gets adjusted ? Who knows yet. Way too early.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Is it to soon to start the "Richardson>Lapierre" debate? I loved Lappy, probably more then at least 95% of you.. But man Richardson has been impressive.

Hah.. I started this with my brother during the game.

Santorelli V Richardson V Lapierre was it though.

I think it's easy to say now we don't miss Lapierre. We'll see what the new guys look like during a losing streak.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

To me it says he is hurting and likely a groin issue.

He is just a touch slow so it looks like bad decisions and the same with his puck handling. The real red flag for me is his skating - Hamhuis is so smooth and seems to just glide but right now he looks to be really working when he skates particularly on pivots and crossovers.

Remember when Garrison looked much the same way in the first part of last season when he was recovering from a groin strain.

Exactly. All signs point to a groin aggravation, and it makes sense given how consistent he's been as a Canuck. Hopefully the team can cope with him playing reduced minutes, and that the minutes off can allow him to recover quickly. I might even suggest making him a "healthy" scratch for a game to allow him some proper recovery time.

 

[RobertKron]

It's certainly possible that Hamhuis is 'hurt', but i'm not totally convinced.

He really hasn't looked good in Torts system and it concerns me a bit in that Hamhuis has essentially played his whole NHL career under two very similar systems. That Nashville system, and under AV here. Both very rigidly structured, passive type of systems. Torts system is an entirely different beast and when you see a guy like Hamhuis looking that lost/confused at times...it really makes me wonder.

I hope we don't have like an 'Anti-Ballard' scenario shaping up here. ie. A passive player having trouble adapting to an 'aggresive' system...the opposite of an aggressive player like Ballard having a really rough time adapting to a more passive 'safe' system here. Granted, even 'bad Hamhuis' hasn't looked anywhere near the ballpark of 'bad Ballard'. But it's concerning because we need Hamhuis to be a rock on our blueline...and thus far in the season, Bieksa has looked like the 'steadying presence' on that pairing much of the time. That's...unnerving.

The D wasn't passive at all under AV's system. The constant jumping the weak side defenseman down the wall to seal off clearing attempts, for example.

 

[wonton15]

Hansen with the Sedins has looked amazing. We have SOO many line combinations


Sedin Sedin Hansen
Booth Kesler Burrows
Higgins Santorelli Kassian
Richardson Schroeder ??

 

[BeardedCanuck]

Hansen with the Sedins has looked amazing. We have SOO many line combinations


Sedin Sedin Hansen
Booth Kesler Burrows
Higgins Santorelli Kassian
Richardson Schroeder ??

I've liked Weber as a forward and would bring an element the 2nd PP needs on the point.

 

[Fa Ci La]

While Hamhuis has obviously had a couple of bloopers, we're still having no trouble controlling the puck when he's out there on the ice. I don't think there's too much reason to get worried right now. If we start getting stuck in our own zone everytime Hamhuis steps out there, ok get worried, but a couple of mistakes early in the season? meh

 

[Win One Before I Die]

AV wouldve made them defend the 3-1 deficit

 

[shottasasa]

Good comeback, but the guys really need to adjust to Torts' defensive system fast. Torts likes to overly pressure every puck and try to win every battle. In almost every area of the ice, the Canucks will overload the wall with 3 or 4 guys to win the puck. its entertaining, keeps the offensive pressure and creates turnovers.

The problem is our coverage/backchecking hasn't been good enough. There have been way too many odd-man rushes and breakaways in the first three games. They're the result of a loose puck squirting out of one the overloaded battles on the wall and everyone is caught behind the play. Hamhuis has had particular trouble adjusting. AV's system would involve a lot more "regrouping" and setting up a type of neutral zone trap.

Not saying I don't like Torts' system. But we need to adjust fast. We can beat up Alberta teams even with loose coverage. But against actual Western conference contenders life will be a lot more difficult.

I agree with this. The toughest thing about learning a new system is most likely going to be the play in our own end and standing up the opposition at our blue line which is what they have struggled with so far. I am very optimistic that given 10-15 more games this will get better.

If Hamhius is hurt, I hope it is something that will get better without him having to miss time. I would prefer to lose a little effectiveness now and have Hamhuis get this fixed now than have him hobbled in the playoffs if this is something that needs time on the IR to properly heal.

Santorelli and Richardson continue to impress this weekend. if they can keep this up against stronger opposition our bottom six isn't looking as bad as feared.

 

[biturbo19]

The D wasn't passive at all under AV's system. The constant jumping the weak side defenseman down the wall to seal off clearing attempts, for example.

The defencemen pinching in the offensive zone really doesn't have a huge amount to do with what i'm talking about, with where Hamhuis has struggled, or an aggressive 'defensive system'. It was one of the few aggressive offensive features of AV's system, having the defencemen jump up into the play offensively and pinching aggressively. The blueliners have still been pinching fairly aggressively at times under Torts.

But in terms of own-zone play in particular, AV's system was extremely passive and based around zones, containment, and keeping the puck to the outside. And was very structured (at times to a fault) in terms of breakouts. Torts defensive system seems to be here, and was largely in NY about aggressive and immediate puck pressure and collapsing down low. And the breakout is largely built around a)chipping the puck up the wall and b)carrying it out with numbers.

Hamhuis' skating ability and positioning allowed him to excel in that sort of passive system, but now, expected to make aggressive reads and apply immediate pressure and subsequently, make quick reads with the puck rather than rigid set plays...he's looked indecisive at times.

It's not all that unfathomable that the same system that has Edler looking far more comfortable, would have a guy like Hamhuis looking a little bit less comfortable.

Hopefully Hamhuis gets it all together in the new system, and he's a talented enough player that i think he will to an extent...but thus far, it's been a bit of a concern to me. The indecisiveness with the puck and in closing gaps is the tell for me that maybe it's not an 'injury' so much as 'adjustments'. Who knows though, could be both, could be neither, could just be that he simply isn't healthy and that's impacting the way he goes about his business on the ice.

 

[hockeywoot]

Good:
-Torts made adjustments as necessary.I wonder how much yelling went on during the 2nd intermission. lol
-Lack kept them in this one earlier on.
-PK has been good
-depth players stepped up

Bad:
-getting significantly out-chanced
-not enough intensity through 40 (barely any shots or hits)
-PP
-Odd-man rushes. (less concerning. its obvious team is still adjusting to the new system. give it a dozen games)


Liked the look of Richardson-Santorelli-Weise. They'll be a good 4th line when all healthy.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Good:
-Torts made adjustments as necessary.I wonder how much yelling went on during the 2nd intermission. lol
-Lack kept them in this one earlier on.
-PK has been good
-depth players stepped up

Bad:
-getting significantly out-chanced
-not enough intensity through 40 (barely any shots or hits)
-PP
-Odd-man rushes. (less concerning. its obvious team is still adjusting to the new system. give it a dozen games)


Liked the look of Richardson-Santorelli-Weise. They'll be a good 4th line when all healthy.

Exactly. That's a good 4th line. I've stated in other thread that, for me, noting that the American Express line did so good two years ago until Booth's injury, i would put Burrows in the 3rd with Schroeder and Kassian.

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Burrows - Schroeder - Kassian
Richardson - Santorelli - Dalpe/Weise
Weise/Dalpe Sestito

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Stanton - Tanev
Weber

Lu
Lack

I would even put Sestito in the minors, put Weber on the 4th/13th F and Alberts becomes our 7th D.

 

[Saturated Fats]

- Lack played great. It's weird to say that a goalie played great when he lets in 4 goals, but he truly did, especially for a guy in his first NHL game. Only one game, but I'm a believer
- Richardson brings an element to the penalty kill of tenacity and sheer determination. He is relentless on the puck, and I love his willingness to do the difficult stuff. Great bottom 6'er
- Santorelli is earning his ice time. Hell, he earned shifts with Henrik Sedin. And made them count. Skill player who is finally getting a chance, and making something of it
- Ryan Stanton is so strong, and has been in all three games. He is no nonsense, puck smart, and hard along the boards. How the Hawks could waive this guy for Mike Kostka...

- Hamhuis struggled again. Is making weird, un-Hamhuislike plays with the puck. Not sure if he's hurt of what but, if he is, it'd be better to sit him for a few to let him heal up than let the injury linger
- Booth scored a goal, but he was pretty much a non-factor other than that. Loses the puck too often, even in situations where it's resting easily on his stick
- Kes also kind of invisible tonight. Disappointing.

I think this team finally has a competitive 4th line (which, funny enough, is our 3rd line right now). When Kass and Burrows get healthy, I would argue that we are a 3rd line C and maybe a top 9 winger (if Booth continues to underperform) away from being a legitimate contender.

 

[sticknrink]

Just to temper some enthuasiasm here; the two wins have been at Edmonton and Calgary's expense. Not the world beaters in the league ...

 

[vanuck]

To see the coach actually have an impact in a game where we looked like we were down and out and could easily have mailed it in is such a change.

And how about Richardson and Santorelli? Some eye-opening play by Stanton tonight too. Solid pick-up.

So happy for Lack's first NHL win. Congrats Eddie.

 

[vanuck]

I love Stanton.

In the OT I thought I heard that Bieksa was paired with "Stantion", and I thought, "Well, here it comes. Guy is for sure going to score now."

Didn't even pick up on that.

Just to temper some enthuasiasm here; the two wins have been at Edmonton and Calgary's expense. Not the world beaters in the league ...

Oh no, people are just glad there are actual positive changes from last year - especially in the coaching aspect. Even if it is against teams we should beat.

 

[Lemurion]

Just to temper some enthuasiasm here; the two wins have been at Edmonton and Calgary's expense. Not the world beaters in the league ...

Nope, but at the same time, there are quite a few positives to take away from both games, starting with the fact that neither was a loss. I'm also glad that Calgary did much better than Edmonton (something about relying on hard work rather than drafting star power).

Still even ignoring the results, there are lots of positives to take from it.

Points from 14 of 19 skaters in the first three games.
Already tied last season for shorthanded goals.
Shooting more.
Came back from 2-goal deficit in the third rather than giving up.
Stanton was a great waiver pickup.
Santorelli & Richardson are hungry.
Team is responding positively to Torts.
Not letting off the gas when they have the lead.

It's looking better than last season, just from an effort perspective, and this is with 3 forwards out, including 2 from the top-six.

 

[Intoewsables]

While Hamhuis has obviously had a couple of bloopers, we're still having no trouble controlling the puck when he's out there on the ice. I don't think there's too much reason to get worried right now. If we start getting stuck in our own zone everytime Hamhuis steps out there, ok get worried, but a couple of mistakes early in the season? meh

Pretty much. He's had a couple warts early this season but the ice has still been pretty tilted in our favour every time he's out there. Not worried about Hamhuis at all, personally.