Post-Game Talk: Game #25: Blackhawks 2, Canucks 1 - Six goals? Nah, one goal will do fine...

[orcatown]

Better team won and that's about all you can say. We rely too much on certain players and are obviously too thin at the forward position. Good effort, in the main, but there were lots of critical breakdowns throughout the game and mostly we were just clinging to the lead.

The Good

Burrows - first line only really started going when he got put on it. Made some very good set ups which often got screwed up by others. Was the one player being effective in the dirty areas

Tanev - amazing in the first two periods in breaking up chances and turning the play around- too bad he can't do it offensively.

Richardson - no star but did create chances and was good in covering up for some of the terrible play by his line mates.

The Bad

Higgins - off night - just pushing the puck around - no zip at all on his passes and lost just about every puck battle he was in. Play has started going into the ditch after a very good start

Hansen - outside of the one goal has not looked good since his return. Mostly just chasing around and doing little that is effective. Seems to be constantly falling or getting knocked down and then picking himself up. Timing on passes and general play seems off. 3rd line was chaos and the only thing saying it at all was Richardson

The Bad

Kassain simply could not play at the speed needed in this game and was appropriately benched. Don't know that he can think the game fast enough to play at this level. Maybe not his fault but the team has to be thinking at looking at alternatives. If the team begins to tank then maybe best to just play him, live with his mistakes and hope he develops. Probably better if he could learn at lower level. Also, Kassain seems to have totally disregarded his role and his need to bring some toughness. Right now you could not be softer than Kassain.

Other thoughts

Outside of Tanev rest of the defense seemed pushed into rushed and bad plays by the Hawks speed. Edler was unable to sustain the good effort of Friday night and messed up some good chances and failed most of the night to create good angles for return or get into the spaces provided for him. (lots of passing and then standing) Also groping on defense at times. Edler just never seems to be able to maintain that level that would move him into the elite category. Look at players like Keith and they are always solid. Hamhuis made some very poor plays such as just tossing the puck to the point on the first goal. Bieksa looked tired and confused at times. Stanton made some very bad decisions and had trouble with the speed in this game. Garrison got caught flat-footed around his net. Lot of these problems resulted from the speed of the Chicago forecheck and if not for really good goal tending by Luongo this could have been over early. There were just too many breakdowns on defense.

Don't think Luongo was a star since the at least one of the goals should have been stopped. However, he was not the major problem in this game.

Canucks are obviously in real tough to make the playoffs. If we are to miss the playoffs then the most beneficial thing is to finish as low as possible and get the best draft possible. But this is very unlikely to happen with this team. Probably they will be close and if they do miss the playoffs will be in the 10 to 14 range. (especially given the weak records in the East). Not giving up yet but this was a critical game in assessing the team and important in highlighting some of the significant problems this team has.

 

[Grumbler]

Oh so now Luongo's an average goalie because the other team hit the post a couple times?

This is hilarious. I can't believe I'm having the argument that Luongo isn't doing his job because he's not racking up shutouts at an astronomical pace. The offense is the problem with this team AINEC, yet the discussion is all about Luongo. Unbelievable.

Lmao, when did I say any of this?

And I do think Luongo is doing his job, just not at the level that reflects his paycheck.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Luongo has one game in November where he has allowed more than 2 goals.

Doesn't matter. That 2 goal limit is arbitrary and reminds of a threshold analysis. They are inherently flawed.

How many games did he outplay the other goalie?

What is his sv% among his peers?

How many scoring chances do the Canucks give up on average?

Do the Canucks usually win the scoring chance battle?

These questions lead to better answers than an arbitrary marker will ever tell us. If sv% is itself deemed meaningless, what does that 2 goal marker really mean? Nothing IMO.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

it's not luongo, people. you do not sell your goalie out by making him face yet another shot nine seconds after a center-ice faceoff. that's bad defensive play. luongo was in control for everything but that tiny span of the game, and shut down a hell of a lot of excellent chances the hawks had in the first part of the game. it's madness to blame him. he's doing his job.

Not only that but coming right off a penalty kill. On another Kesler penalty.

Havent watched the game yet but Im betting a shiny new $100 that the Kesler penalty was an idiotic one to take.

 

[cutcopy]

Lmao, when did I say any of this?

don't even bother with him, I don't think he's a fan of the team, just luongo.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Lmao, when did I say any of this?

I don't think Luongo is not doing his job.

When you said Luongo hasn't been good enough. Either you expect him to hold the team to 0 goals, or what he's done has been good enough. Which is it? Because there's a very fine line between what he's done, and racking up constant shutouts.

 

[Orca Smash]

kassian should have a few games in the pressbox. booth/dalpe in?

I dont know if i would put him in the press box yet, but in a tight game against sc champion i would have been uneasy playing him based on his play. Hindsight is 20/20 for some its easy after the game to say we lost anyway should have gave him more chances. I dont think i would put him in the press box yet though.

Weise was actually decent in his spot though but we cant rely on dale. I would give booth a shot to draw in though, but I would probably take sestito out even against the kings.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

No, it's not misleading. Someone posted a stat a few games ago that in the past few years our goaltending has kept opponents to under two goals in ~30% of games. We've gotten that twice this year: the shutout against Buffalo and the shutout against Toronto. We need that more than one every 12 games, which you must agree with since you also think Luongo has to improve.

I'm not saying goaltending has been a bigger problem than scoring, I just take issue with the fanboys who claim our goaltending has been good enough.

It's misleading because Luongo has allowed 2 goals in every single game this month, except for 2 games. 4 games against LA and a shutout against Toronto.

He has identical records of allowing "2 or more" and "2 or less". He isn't as likely to win when we score 1 or 2 goals(keeping in mind the vast majority of the time it means scoring one goal) but he's also less likely to require more than 3 or more goals to win a game, which someone like Crawford has required 5 times already this month.

 

[John Bender*]

Doesn't matter. That 2 goal limit is arbitrary and reminds of a threshold analysis. They are inherently flawed.

How many games did he outplay the other goalie?

What is his sv% among his peers?

How many scoring chances do the Canucks give up on average?

Do the Canucks usually win the scoring chance battle?

These questions lead to better answers than an arbitrary marker will ever tell us. If sv% is itself deemed meaningless, what does that 2 goal marker really mean? Nothing IMO.

This is precisely the concepts that Y2K fails to grasp. It's what makes all his posts flawed.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Its stupid how some people are throwing Luongo under the bus and defending the teams lack of finish and offense. Come people get into reality.

 

[VanCanucks53]

You realize Schneider has struggled in New Jersey and we would be without a top ten prospect, yes?

That would have been great right now.

Dont think its Schneider that has struggled but rather their offense that has.

 

[Wetcoaster]

The sad part is Chicago didn't even try this game until that opening 5 minute mark of the 3rd period. Its how sad we are.

I am unsure what game you were watching but the Hawks were trying - the Canucks were playing very well and then they had that short period of brain cramping which cost them the game.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Schneider has struggled in New Jersey

Since when?

Horvat is an excellent prospect but cap issues aside I would trade him back to Jersey for Schneider in a heartbeat. No question at all.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Nah, I get what you mean. I've never been a proponent of "blow it up," we are still good but if we make the playoffs, we will likely be underdogs and then we'll decline a bit more next year. The way it goes. I want us to continue to try to win with the Sedins and am not convinced we have the youth to do anything different (it's too early to say anything about Horvat/Shinkaruk. We have no idea how they'll adjust to a pro league.) We are the Phillies of the NHL, but at least they won a ****ing championship before age caught up to them.

But what can you do? We are blessed to be fans of a team that has a core that has had them amongst the top 10 teams in the league almost every year since about 2002. You started watching when Mogo and hE who shall not be named were playing. I started watching during the 94 run. We have been on the other side of this. Been a fan of a team that was about as good as the Thrashers were for most of their history. So, even if we don't get our happy ending (and we still may), try to enjoy that we go into every game believing that we can win. It's not always like 2011 where we believed we would win every game. But it still means something to me, and it should to you as well.


---

Kassian. What the hell is wrong with Kassian? I have been encouraged by some of his shifts with the puck, etc. But what has happened to his physical game? He doesn't even finish his hits, and when he does it's a token bump. He has a body that is made to devastate guys. And he had a rep for being a real loose cannon in junior. I know he needed to tighten up the loose screw, but if he's not going to be physical, he's gonna be a 4th liner.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Doesn't matter. That 2 goal limit is arbitrary and reminds of a threshold analysis. They are inherently flawed.

How many games did he outplay the other goalie?

What is his sv% among his peers?

How many scoring chances do the Canucks give up on average?

Do the Canucks usually win the scoring chance battle?

These questions lead to better answers than an arbitrary marker will ever tell us. If sv% is itself deemed meaningless, what does that 2 goal marker really mean? Nothing IMO.

Let's see, for November:

Crawford
Bobrovsky
Thomas
Lehtonen
Niemi
Andersen
Quick
Niemi
Smith
Reimer

Bolded are goalies that outplayed him, imo.

I noticed you chose to ignore this.

 

[Wetcoaster]

The major problem with the offence is the terrible power play. If they can get that working and take leads of more than one goal then that forces other teams to open up and they can be put away. That was the recipe during the high scoring seasons.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Since when?

Was outplayed by Luongo twice in two head to head matchups.

 

[ghostingtaro]

If I was Schneider, I am glad I got traded.

I hope Luongo ditches Vancouver and just gets up and says he retires

Would be funny to see these fans start freaking out

 

[YouppiKiYay]

How does Lu rank in Save percentage - a much more pertinent stat.

I wondered cause you asked. Luongo's .914 save percentage is 36th -- right behind Richard Bachmann and right in front of the Winnipeg duo of Ondrej Pavelec and Al Montoya

Goalie Stats Sorted by Save Percentage

 

[Nucker101]

Doesn't matter. That 2 goal limit is arbitrary and reminds of a threshold analysis. They are inherently flawed.

How many games did he outplay the other goalie?

What is his sv% among his peers?

How many scoring chances do the Canucks give up on average?

Do the Canucks usually win the scoring chance battle?

These questions lead to better answers than an arbitrary marker will ever tell us. If sv% is itself deemed meaningless, what does that 2 goal marker really mean? Nothing IMO.

Although, the biggest problem with this team is clearly a lack of scoring depth and top 6 skill. But Luongo is definitely no longer "elite" and is more middle of the pack. We lost the elite goaltending edge we had when we dealt Schneider.

 

[Hammer79]

absolutely true, but that's also the issue...luongo should at the very least match the goaltending performance at the opposite end of the rink, and there's been way too many games so far where he's been the inferior goaltender or let in a softie at an important juncture in the game

another point is that it's not 2007 anymore...the excellent post showing the increase in average save percentage around the league demonstrated the increase in quality around the league, as well as showing that he's statistically below average at this point

I think that has to do with the goalie at the other end of the ice seeing a lot of perimeter shots while the Canucks look to jump on rebounds. Rarely do we create offense off of odd man rushes anymore. This just isn't a speedy team up front, this is a team that tries to cycle in the zone and grind away until they get one or get a PP call. We may be getting 30+ shots and outshooting teams, but I don't think we are out-chancing many teams despite generally controlling the puck.

On the other end failed pinches, missed assignments, partially blocked but deflected shots, leaving guys open on the doorstep are leading to prime scoring chances against. I think a lot of posters are saddling Luongo with the blame for goals that are coming off of defensive miscues, and pointing the finger at him for somehow not being elite. I think the problem really is that certain D are having off-to-average seasons; Edler, Garrison, Tanev especially and Stanton as of late.

 

[Grumbler]

When you said Luongo hasn't been good enough. Either you expect him to hold the team to 0 goals, or what he's done has been good enough. Which is it? Because there's a very fine line between what he's done, and racking up constant shutouts.

Based on the couple of games we had where we limited so much of the oppositions offence and blocked that many shots, etc, yea I expect him to keep the game at 1 or 0 goals against atleast in some of them, but so far he has done that in NONE.

 

[Wetcoaster]

 

[Orca Smash]

I am unsure what game you were watching but the Hawks were trying - the Canucks were playing very well and then they had that short period of brain cramping which cost them the game.

Ya hawks were fired up especially at the start they were skating miles, toews said post game one of the best road games they have played.

 

[NuxFan09]

Oh so now Luongo's an average goalie because the other team hit the post a couple times?

This is hilarious. I can't believe I'm having the argument that Luongo isn't doing his job because he's not racking up shutouts at an astronomical pace. The offense is the problem with this team AINEC, yet the discussion is all about Luongo. Unbelievable.

You STILL fail to see the freaking point. Nobody is saying that Luongo is the problem with this team. People are just waiting for him to steal a game or two, like Crawford did for the Blackhawks tonight, or Reimer did for the Leafs tonight stopping 49 of 50.

You always feel the need to defend Luongo with your life instead of admitting "Yeah, it would be nice if one of these 2-1 losses would swing our way because Luongo was the one who let in 1 instead of 2".

Everyone (or most people here) sees that the main issue with this team is the offense. Luongo is not a problem, per se. We're just looking for Luongo to swing one of these low scoring games in our favour instead of making excuses for him EVERY TIME.