Post-Game Talk: GAME #23 - Flyers beat B's in a 9 round shootout - Philadelphia 3 BRUINS 2 F/SO

sarge88

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Actually, virtually zero logic in your statement.

Who gets lucky bounces in shootouts? Its one on one.

125 more goals during game situations has nothing to do with shootout ability.

You hit a post or crossbar and it goes in...I hit one and it doesn't.

Tuukka gets a piece with of Gostisbeher's shot tonight and it still goes in....maybe tomorrow it wouldn't.

There is a lot of luck in shootouts.

Riley Nash has 30 something career goals for a reason...

Marchand has over 150 for a reason.
 

toasterjam

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I really like Schaller as a player...staying on the 4th line, glad to see that experiment ended, he is a good player but should not be on the 2nd line.

Nice to see Spooner respond well with a couple decent games now.

Get his confidence going again and maybe the PP can start to click.
 

CharasLazyWrister

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So, in every situation you just go by the %?

Beleskey wins 3 face offs in a game, so he takes a defensive zone face off with 25 seconds left of a tie game over Bergeron?

Sometimes you have to look at things through a different lens.

Trust me, I do not. You only have to visit a few of my posts to realize I am not a big stat-based guy overall. Hence, not wanting Eriksson and welcoming the Backes signing.

That being said...every argument you make represents extremely small samples that aren't comparable. 12 shootout attempts is 1200% more than 1. 3 faceoff wins IN ONE GAME is different than separate shootout attempts in separate games. You're trying to make your point but you're manufacturing intentionally miniscule examples to minimize something extremely logical.

Claude used Nash, not because he's a star hockey player, but because over the years, he is historically very successful in shootouts. Not one shootout attempt, not two, but 12. Again, look at the example I gave for Daniel Sedin. This isn't foreign. I understand you disagree. And I give you credit for being honest about Nash. But the fact that you launched into the tirade, only to continue it without blinking once you learned the perfectly sound logic behind it, tells me all I need to know. You created a bias instantly, whether you admit or not, of having to ruthlessly defend your argument.

I understand why it happened. You don't like it. As a matter of fact, I don't either because they didn't win. But I'm not going to ***** and moan about something that made perfect sense because it didn't work out in my favor. Just the way it goes.

Now...if Marchand keeps popping SO goals and Nash misses even his next...one...I'm with you. But, it's the shootout. It's a four second play. It's probably the most statistically significant action in the entire game.
 

Fenway

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Sadly tonight we saw two .500 teams that are going nowhere in the spring. If either of these teams makes the playoffs it won't be for long.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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You hit a post or crossbar and it goes in...I hit one and it doesn't.

Tuukka gets a piece with of Gostisbeher's shot tonight and it still goes in....maybe tomorrow it wouldn't.

There is a lot of luck in shootouts.

Riley Nash has 30 something career goals for a reason...

Marchand has over 150 for a reason.

Seriously?
 

CharasLazyWrister

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You hit a post or crossbar and it goes in...I hit one and it doesn't.

Tuukka gets a piece with of Gostisbeher's shot tonight and it still goes in....maybe tomorrow it wouldn't.

There is a lot of luck in shootouts.

Riley Nash has 30 something career goals for a reason...

Marchand has over 150 for a reason.

Some guys are good at shootouts, some guys are not. That's just the way it goes. There are guys down in the A who kill it at shootouts but don't get called up because they are overall not good hockey players. The opposite situation also exists.

A huge argument against the shootout is that it's ******** because it's not "real hockey". That's a very correct assertion to me. But because it's not "real hockey", it is evaluated differently and you have to look at things a bit differently.
 

Ben Grimm

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Sadly tonight we saw two .500 teams that are going nowhere in the spring. If either of these teams makes the playoffs it won't be for long.
Now that's a thread title. Throw in over half a mil in V-Cash and you've got it goin on! ;)
 
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VanIsle

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Crazy how the Bruins were worried about the defense when in all reality putting the biscuit in the basket is the major problem with the Bruins.

I really hope Vatrano and Chara coming back in the long run will boost the gpg.
 

sarge88

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Trust me, I do. You only have to visit a few of my posts to realize I am not a big stat-based guy overall. Hence, not wanting Eriksson and welcoming the Backes signing.

That being said...every argument you make represents extremely small samples that aren't comparable. 12 shootout attempts is 1200% more than 1. 3 faceoff wins IN ONE GAME is different than separate shootout attempts in separate games. You're trying to make your point but you're manufacturing intentionally miniscule examples to minimize something extremely logical.

Claude used Nash, not because he's a star hockey player, but because over the years, he is historically very successful in shootouts. Not one shootout attempt, not two, but 12. Again, look at the example I gave for Daniel Sedin. This isn't foreign. I understand you disagree. And I give you credit for being honest about Nash. But the fact that you launched into the tirade, only to continue it without blinking once you learned the perfectly sound logic behind it, tells me all I need to know. You created a bias instantly, whether you admit or not, of having to ruthlessly defend your argument.

I understand why it happened. You don't like it. As a matter of fact, I don't either because they didn't win. But I'm not going to ***** and moan about something that made perfect sense because it didn't work out in my favor. Just the way it goes.

Now...if Marchand keeps popping SO goals and Nash misses even his next...one...I'm with you. But, it's the shootout. It's a four second play. It's probably the most statistically significant action in the entire game.


I never said there was no logic behind it.....I would hope there is logic behind every decision a coach makes.

I disagree with the logic because I feel it is flawed.

There is much more at play than numbers.

I challenge anyone to say that when Nash took off up ice on his turn they had anywhere near the confidence they had when Marchand did.

What someone else posted makes total sense to me...what Nash has done is simply a statistical anomaly, that will correct itself.

I have no doubt about that because I've watched him play hockey.

Given that....there is no reason to have Marchand outside of the top 3, IMO.

I've been around long enough to know that the %'s aren't always what they seem.
 

CharasLazyWrister

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Crazy how the Bruins were worried about the defense when in all reality putting the biscuit in the basket is the major problem with the Bruins.

I really hope Vatrano and Chara coming back in the long run will boost the gpg.

Bergeron needs to step up his game. Krejci needs to be able to play at more than 60%, whether that is some sort of healing from an injury or just needing to get his head in the game. Vatrano has got to be pretty ready to go when he gets back. Got to stay healthy. Backes needs to find a little bit of consistency. Marchand can hopefully get back to playing high energy games consistently. Hopefully, Chara doesn't miss a step.

A lot has to go right and very little can go wrong with this team. God forbid any major injuries to players like Marchand, Pasta, or Rask. Either of those three go down, we're completely finished.
 

sarge88

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Seriously?

Take tonight...

Hayes had Mason beat cleanly...puck rolled off his stick.

Pasta, was it? Just missed getting it under Mason. Another night, Mason moves a half second later...it goes in.

Not to mention the flukey Gostisbehere goal.

It's not like every shootout goal is ripped under the crossbar.
 

CharasLazyWrister

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I never said there was no logic behind it.....I would hope there is logic behind every decision a coach makes.

I disagree with the logic because I feel it is flawed.

There is much more at play than numbers.

I challenge anyone to say that when Nash took off up ice on his turn they had anywhere near the confidence they had when Marchand did.

What someone else posted makes total sense to me...what Nash has done is simply a statistical anomaly, that will correct itself.

I have no doubt about that because I've watched him play hockey.

Given that....there is no reason to have Marchand outside of the top 3, IMO.

I've been around long enough to know that the %'s aren't always what they seem.

You're minimizing someone's obvious, firsthand contribution for the sake of your argument.

You are making things objective and quantifiable...subjective and qualitative.

I have listened to your argument. I understand the thinking. But, I don't agree with at all and I think it is a. a result of not initially knowing the sound reasoning behind why Claude did what he did, and having to defend yourself when you learned the stats and b. simply seeing Marchand as the better player, which he is.

I do respect it. I don't think any less of you as a hockey mind or that I know any more about the sport than you (truthfully, you probably know more overall since you've been around longer than I have). But, I think YOUR reasoning is terribly flawed and we'll have to agree to disagree as there is plenty of sound logic and reasoning on my side and it's not changing.
 

CharasLazyWrister

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Take tonight...

Hayes had Mason beat cleanly...puck rolled off his stick.

Pasta, was it? Just missed getting it under Mason. Another night, Mason moves a half second later...it goes in.

Not to mention the flukey Gostisbehere goal.

It's not like every shootout goal is ripped under the crossbar.

Right...

But again...:laugh: You're exclusively comparing tiny scale samples (one instance) with much larger scale samples. You're purposely citing minimal examples because they are the only ones that support your argument which relates to a far larger sample size. I don't understand how you can keep doing this and not see the absurdity.

If shootouts are "a lot of luck" as you say, then **** it. Let's go Moore, Schaller, Czarnik. Your own argument can be used directly against you.
 

PlayMakers

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I play the percentages. You already know the answer.

Again, the flail Sarge. Strawman arguments. Please stop. You're now trying to introduce lethal weapons into the conversation to make your point. You're completely separating the situation from reality to try to make your point. There's no merit to any of it.

I agree, the whole argument is silly.

Bergeron, Krejci, Backes, Krug, Pastrnak... they're all stars. Why aren't people screaming that they should have gone right off the top, in succession? Oh that's right, because they missed. The only reason we're having this discussion is hindsight is 20/20.

Remember Oshie in the Olympics? Why not go with bigger NHL stars? Because of the percentages.

Why didn't Voracek or Ghost go in the top3 for Philly? They're stars. They chose Nick Cousins over them. Everybody plays the percentages in the shootout.
 

pierre gagnon*

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People complain when someone does not shoot then we end up with a lot of shots and what we lost. Players refuse to shoot into opposing players knee pads for fear of a breakaway. Maybe looking for an open guy for a one timer by moving the goalie out of his position is better then hammering it on net for an easy save. Mason was bringing everything into his stomach like good goalies do. He made a few nice ones but so did Rask. Shooting a lot from low percentage far away was not going win this game and anyone blamming people for that are using it for an agenda. Flyers let Mason see most shots, the only dangerous ones were when we passed it for a one timer, cross ice or however they did it. Tumbling muffins to Mason was what they wanted us to do, Habs tactic anyone. Having the new guys get a shoot at it was refreshing. Czarnik is a good passer and Colin needs to get more icetime for it. Eriksson is really missed more then we thought. Krug, Colin, Morrow and Kevan had good games as did Rask, Krech and Marchand.
 

Caper Bruins fan

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He was very good all night, haters can say what they want but he is starting to come into form, which if you consider he couldn't skate til late Aug, puts him right on schedule.

He has played very well the last two games . I would consider putting Spooner back with Krejci and Backes .
 

Caper Bruins fan

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Sadly tonight we saw two .500 teams that are going nowhere in the spring. If wither of these teams makes the playoffs it won't be for long.

It's too early to say that . So much can change between now and opening night of the playoffs. Are the Bruins a great hockey team ? Certainly not ,but I am not convinced that come April all of the other teams in the East will be significantly better .
 

sarge88

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Right...

But again...:laugh: You're exclusively comparing tiny scale samples (one instance) with much larger scale samples. You're purposely citing minimal examples because they are the only ones that support your argument which relates to a far larger sample size. I don't understand how you can keep doing this and not see the absurdity.

If shootouts are "a lot of luck" as you say, then **** it. Let's go Moore, Schaller, Czarnik. Your own argument can be used directly against you.

I see you point entirely and I get why Claude used him, I simply don't agree with it because I watched tonight's game and saw Marchand play.

I will never believe anyone who says that tonight (IMO ever) but just tonight for discussion sake....would put Nash in ahead of Marchand.
 

CDJ

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......I absolutely run Nash out there in the shootout


Not like this team is good at them. Nash is.
 

sarge88

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I agree, the whole argument is silly.

Bergeron, Krejci, Backes, Krug, Pastrnak... they're all stars. Why aren't people screaming that they should have gone right off the top, in succession? Oh that's right, because they missed. The only reason we're having this discussion is hindsight is 20/20.

Remember Oshie in the Olympics? Why not go with bigger NHL stars? Because of the percentages.

Why didn't Voracek or Ghost go in the top3 for Philly? They're stars. They chose Nick Cousins over them. Everybody plays the percentages in the shootout.

Personally, if there were a shootout Thursday, I'd use every one you mentioned ahead of Nash, because IMO what Nash has done is a statistical fluke and for one, independent shootout attempt, regardless of the past, I feel as if those players are more likely to score.
 

CombatOnContact

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C.Miller really needs to shoot the puck more. He seems so hesitant to let it fly.. Granted, most of his shots get blocked, but he did have a couple really good lanes to fire one and he elected to pass off. His shot is supposedly one of his greatest assets..

McQuaid has an especial rough night.

Thought K.Miller was pretty good.

The offense is suffering so bad. What the heck is wrong with Bergeron? Is he going to have his worst statistical season ever?
 

trenton1

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Imagine how much friendlier this thread would be if the NHL never gave us shootouts.

Hopefully when the NHL achieves their ultimate goal of being another sport, they will play extra innings until a winner is found in the course of team play. Until then I gotta send Riley Nash over the boards because Axelsson is busy scouting HV71.
 

Pasta88

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C.Miller really needs to shoot the puck more. He seems so hesitant to let it fly.. Granted, most of his shots get blocked, but he did have a couple really good lanes to fire one and he elected to pass off. His shot is supposedly one of his greatest assets..

McQuaid has an especial rough night.

Thought K.Miller was pretty good.

The offense is suffering so bad. What the heck is wrong with Bergeron? Is he going to have his worst statistical season ever?

Hope Not BERGY needs to break through. Can't imagine after a strong World Cup that he is not producing....
 

sarge88

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C.Miller really needs to shoot the puck more. He seems so hesitant to let it fly.. Granted, most of his shots get blocked, but he did have a couple really good lanes to fire one and he elected to pass off. His shot is supposedly one of his greatest assets..

McQuaid has an especial rough night.

Thought K.Miller was pretty good.

The offense is suffering so bad. What the heck is wrong with Bergeron? Is he going to have his worst statistical season ever?

I guess the good news is that the defense has been better than expected. If Bergeron and Krejci can approach their career pace over the remaining games, they could be ok.
 

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