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G Ilya Sorokin (2014, 78th, NYI)

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I still think Gillies is a top goalie prospect. Bit of a hiccup this year with the injury, but I still think highly of him.
 
Atas2000 said:
Sorry guys, but you overrate NA goalies by a margin there.
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I think it's the other way around.

Sure, Sorokin is doing very big things in the KHL, but look no further than two former Isles goalie prospects who have dominated the KHL and flopped in the NHL: Anders Nilsson (twice flopped) and Mikko Koskinen.

Sure, there are success stories too, but Sorokin's KHL success is no more significant than the other goalie prospects I mentioned and their accomplishments. I know you fancy the KHL as the 2nd best league in the world, but that doesn't translate into any higher success rate for goalies than the CHL, NCAA, etc.

My point of view is simple, I'd like to see Sorokin replicate his success outside of the KHL before I put him at that top tier. He didn't fare so well a few years back in the WJC, whereas players like Hellebuyck, Demko, Murray, etc. have replicated their success across multiple platforms: CHL, NCAA, WCs, WJCs, AHL, etc.
 
Sorokin will struggle at first if he ever comes to the NHL. Shooting lanes in the KHL are vastly different compared to the NHL.
 
Konk said:
I think it's the other way around.

Sure, Sorokin is doing very big things in the KHL, but look no further than two former Isles goalie prospects who have dominated the KHL and flopped in the NHL: Anders Nilsson (twice flopped) and Mikko Koskinen.

Sure, there are success stories too, but Sorokin's KHL success is no more significant than the other goalie prospects I mentioned and their accomplishments. I know you fancy the KHL as the 2nd best league in the world, but that doesn't translate into any higher success rate for goalies than the CHL, NCAA, etc.

My point of view is simple, I'd like to see Sorokin replicate his success outside of the KHL before I put him at that top tier. He didn't fare so well a few years back in the WJC, whereas players like Hellebuyck, Demko, Murray, etc. have replicated their success across multiple platforms: CHL, NCAA, WCs, WJCs, AHL, etc.
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The ghost of Koskinen and Nilsson strikes again.

To be fair:

1) Sorokin is a good 5 years younger than those guys when they found their KHL success...and still, his numbers are noticeably superior.

2) You could literally say the "I'll believe it when I see it" about any prospect from any league. Dal Colle, Barzal, Beauvillier. All hyped Isles prospects, but at the end of the day no one knows how they will translate to the pro game. The excitement comes not only from their production, but from the raw talent that each player displays. The only difference between these guys and Sorokin is that Ilya was drafted much later and he happens to play on a different Continent.

Let's not overthink this and take it for what this is: a very exciting prospect who seems to be developing extremely well. God knows we are due to find an NHL goalie through the draft.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
What I was saying is that Sorokin's isn't in a tier of his own, hence naming someone like Demko. I don't even think he's in a tier of his own for goalies in Russia from his age group, hence naming someone like Shestyorkin.

I really don't know where the argument is here. Maybe you can fill me in on that. I disagreed that he was "hands down" the best goalie. You seem to agree on that, and it seems like everyone else besides the one poster that I quoted does, so why are you picking out a footnote of my post? I think I know why, but that discussion doesn't need to be had.
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It's about as silly as me saying Petrov is in the same tier as Buchnevich, I'll leave it at that.
 
blinkman360 said:
The ghost of Koskinen and Nilsson strikes again.

To be fair:

1) Sorokin is a good 5 years younger than those guys when they found their KHL success...and still, his numbers are noticeably superior.
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He also has a better chance than those two, as the Islanders seem content with letting him actually develop before binging him over. Those guys were plucked too early, even though Koskinen was drafted as an over ager.
 
blinkman360 said:
The ghost of Koskinen and Nilsson strikes again.

To be fair:

1) Sorokin is a good 5 years younger than those guys when they found their KHL success...and still, his numbers are noticeably superior.

2) You could literally say the "I'll believe it when I see it" about any prospect from any league. Dal Colle, Barzal, Beauvillier. All hyped Isles prospects, but at the end of the day no one knows how they will translate to the pro game. The excitement comes not only from their production, but from the raw talent that each player displays. The only difference between these guys and Sorokin is that Ilya was drafted much later and he happens to play on a different Continent.

Let's not overthink this and take it for what this is: a very exciting prospect who seems to be developing extremely well. God knows we are due to find an NHL goalie through the draft.
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I honestly don't have a problem with anything you're saying here. I think you're being rational about it. Others, not so much.
 
blinkman360 said:
The ghost of Koskinen and Nilsson strikes again.

To be fair:

1) Sorokin is a good 5 years younger than those guys when they found their KHL success...and still, his numbers are noticeably superior.

2) You could literally say the "I'll believe it when I see it" about any prospect from any league. Dal Colle, Barzal, Beauvillier. All hyped Isles prospects, but at the end of the day no one knows how they will translate to the pro game. The excitement comes not only from their production, but from the raw talent that each player displays. The only difference between these guys and Sorokin is that Ilya was drafted much later and he happens to play on a different Continent.

Let's not overthink this and take it for what this is: a very exciting prospect who seems to be developing extremely well. God knows we are due to find an NHL goalie through the draft.
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Not if you speak to Oiler fans.

Early on Nilsson was highly regarded by the fan base.

Another slick move by Chiarelli who seems to have a knack for those type deals.
 
Konk said:
I think it's the other way around.

Sure, Sorokin is doing very big things in the KHL, but look no further than two former Isles goalie prospects who have dominated the KHL and flopped in the NHL: Anders Nilsson (twice flopped) and Mikko Koskinen.

Sure, there are success stories too, but Sorokin's KHL success is no more significant than the other goalie prospects I mentioned and their accomplishments. I know you fancy the KHL as the 2nd best league in the world, but that doesn't translate into any higher success rate for goalies than the CHL, NCAA, etc.

My point of view is simple, I'd like to see Sorokin replicate his success outside of the KHL before I put him at that top tier. He didn't fare so well a few years back in the WJC, whereas players like Hellebuyck, Demko, Murray, etc. have replicated their success across multiple platforms: CHL, NCAA, WCs, WJCs, AHL, etc.
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Can you guys please start with the fact that you don't follow the KHL and thus have little idea about the performance of players in the KHL?

Nilsson and Koskinen "dominated"? When did that happen? If yu only read the stats that doesn't give you any proper idea about the players, especially prospecs, especially goaltenders.

Nilsson always was an inconsistent, overhyped bum and he always will be. Being dragged to his stats by the best defensive team in the league helped him get a contract, so what? It can't make him a better goaltender.

Koskinen is an averge goalie in the KHL at best. Got exposed again ths playoffs.:dunno: Why SKA is in love with him you'll have to ask the SKA management.

And your argument about replicating success is just laugable. So Sorokin replicatimg success in the KHL is somehow worth zero while success in some american junior leagues is what matters? How?
 
I couldn't care less if people consider Sorokin the top goalie prospect outside the NHL or not.
I haven't seen him play much at all but I'm going to guess that he isn't.
Even if I had studied him closely I'm no professional scout.
His numbers in the KHL are impressive for sure. For that he must be highly ranked but when you consider all the great kids we've seen in recent years ranking him top 5 is even questionable. What I do know his team is very good and the KHL isn't a very offensive league. He benefits from that for sure.
Still I'm happy he's an Isles prospect because we really need some youth at the goalie spot in the system.

I can't rank him above guys like Demko, Hell, Vasilevsky, Gillies,
 
Atas2000 said:
Can you guys please start with the fact that you don't follow the KHL and thus have little idea about the performance of players in the KHL?

Nilsson and Koskinen "dominated"? When did that happen? If yu only read the stats that doesn't give you any proper idea about the players, especially prospecs, especially goaltenders.

Nilsson always was an inconsistent, overhyped bum and he always will be. Being dragged to his stats by the best defensive team in the league helped him get a contract, so what? It can't make him a better goaltender.

Koskinen is an averge goalie in the KHL at best. Got exposed again ths playoffs.:dunno: Why SKA is in love with him you'll have to ask the SKA management.

And your argument about replicating success is just laugable. So Sorokin replicatimg success in the KHL is somehow worth zero while success in some american junior leagues is what matters? How?
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Yep, you're right. I don't watch the KHL, just like you don't watch the CHL/NCAA/AHL.

Here's something you haven't yet acknowledged: those leagues have a much better track record of developing NHL goalies than the KHL.

The basis of comparison for Sorokin is Bobrovsky, who aside from one great year has been fairly average in his career. Then there's Andrei Vasilevskiy, who we have more to reference with his play internationally and in the AHL and NHL so as a result he's considered among the top group of goalie prospects... which is what I want to see from Sorokin. Fact of the matter is, we only have his KHL play and one subpar WJC tournament to go off of. So it's difficult to say if his stats are a product of his team or not.

I'm leaving the argument with this statement, which is the main point for me: Sorokin is a very good goalie prospect, one that I have a vested interest in seeing succeed, but he will simply need to accomplish more/show more at other levels/tournaments before we can rank him with other goalies who have multiple accomplishments with multiple teams at different levels.
 
Konk said:
Yep, you're right. I don't watch the KHL, just like you don't watch the CHL/NCAA/AHL.

Here's something you haven't yet acknowledged: those leagues have a much better track record of developing NHL goalies than the KHL.

The basis of comparison for Sorokin is Bobrovsky, who aside from one great year has been fairly average in his career. Then there's Andrei Vasilevskiy, who we have more to reference with his play internationally and in the AHL and NHL so as a result he's considered among the top group of goalie prospects... which is what I want to see from Sorokin. Fact of the matter is, we only have his KHL play and one subpar WJC tournament to go off of. So it's difficult to say if his stats are a product of his team or not.

I'm leaving the argument with this statement, which is the main point for me: Sorokin is a very good goalie prospect, one that I have a vested interest in seeing succeed, but he will simply need to accomplish more/show more at other levels/tournaments before we can rank him with other goalies who have multiple accomplishments with multiple teams at different levels.
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:facepalm:

You are probably one of the guys responsible for the Panarin case. Yeah, the KHL is in Russia, so it's a bad, bad, unknown, enigmatic league. Let's not trust anything coming out of it. You also obviously have no idea about the whole Sorokin track record. Those are the guys who need russian prospects to be in the NA system just to judge them. NA kids leagues are so much better(i.e. they are here and we can watch them. Just ridiculous).

Track record? What goaltending prospects are there for Canada recently? And why did they ban foreign goalies from the CHL again? Canada is in trouble with their goalie pipeline. Yes, US does seem to have a good development system. But spare me those "multiple accomplishments with multiple teams at different levels". Dominating the KHL is by far a bigger accomplishment than dominating juniors at any level.

P.S. There are some NHL goaltenders that failed in the KHL. The NHL seems to have a bad track record of developing KHL goalies.:sarcasm:
 
The Iron Curtain!!!!

Best kept secret in the prospect world. I actually like that there isn't a crazy amount of hype around him beyond the isles board/fans.
 
SI90 said:
The Iron Curtain!!!!

Best kept secret in the prospect world. I actually like that there isn't a crazy amount of hype around him beyond the isles board/fans.
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I wouldn't even say we are hyping him that much.
 
seafoam said:
I wouldn't even say we are hyping him that much.
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I think some Isles fans are too afraid to get their hopes up, after seeing every previous top goaltending prospect fail(even though none were as impressive at such a young age). Add to that he's out of sight and out of mind, and it's not a surprise.

Personally, Sorokin AND Soderstrom have me very excited for the future.
 
blinkman360 said:
I think some Isles fans are too afraid to get their hopes up, after seeing every previous top goaltending prospect fail(even though none were as impressive at such a young age). Add to that he's out of sight and out of mind, and it's not a surprise.

Personally, Sorokin AND Soderstrom have me very excited for the future.
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From the bit that I have seen Sorokin I am very excited. I think he could be a top 10 goaltender. The only thing holding back the hype is his contract in the KHL.
 
SI90 said:
The Iron Curtain!!!!

Best kept secret in the prospect world. I actually like that there isn't a crazy amount of hype around him beyond the isles board/fans.
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Pains me to say it but you might be right.

Kid is going to be a legit #1 goalie in the league one day.
 
FLYLine27 said:
Pains me to say it but you might be right.

Kid is going to be a legit #1 goalie in the league one day.
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You finally said something nice about he isles!!!!!

I hope you're right. The only thing that worries me( besides KHL of course) is how skinny he is. Maybe I'm just knit picking but he's very thin.
 
SI90 said:
You finally said something nice about he isles!!!!!

I hope you're right. The only thing that worries me( besides KHL of course) is how skinny he is. Maybe I'm just knit picking but he's very thin.
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It's probably better that he is skinny. Goalies don't need to have muscle, in fact most European goalies tend to be frail. It gives them more flexibility. Look at DP, he gained a ton of muscle in one offseason and he couldn't stay on the ice after that.
 
WangMustGo said:
It's probably better that he is skinny. Goalies don't need to have muscle, in fact most European goalies tend to be frail. It gives them more flexibility. Look at DP, he gained a ton of muscle in one offseason and he couldn't stay on the ice after that.
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DP built the heck out of his upper body and neglected his legs.

In every sport legs and core are everything.
 
SI90 said:
DP built the heck out of his upper body and neglected his legs.

In every sport legs and core are everything.
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Absolutely, your legs are where your strength really comes from.

My point was really that you don't need to be full of muscle to be a goaltender. As long as Sorokin can quickly get from post to post and from the butterfly to standing quickly he is strong enough.
 
WangMustGo said:
Absolutely, your legs are where your strength really comes from.

My point was really that you don't need to be full of muscle to be a goaltender. As long as Sorokin can quickly get from post to post and from the butterfly to standing quickly he is strong enough.
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Agreed.

I have a belief that goaltenders mostly need to have great reflexes and be flexible. Genetics could play a role.
 
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