Confirmed with Link: G Ilya Samsonov heads to arbitration (Awarded 1 year, $3.55M)

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

No I meant Dubas who brought both guys here. Leafs do not have to accept contract from arbitration.


No, Campbell was a bum, but Pittsburgh and Ottawa knew what Murray was. We knew what Campbell was and should have seen what Murray was.

Leafs have to except the arbitration contract because it was under 4.5 million

Ottawa had to pay a 3rd pick 7th round pick and 2 million dollars for 2 season to have him play in Toronto. For an internal cap team that was a high price to pay. What goalie would you have brought in last year? How about this off season?

Murray was also a starting goalie for the Leafs for the first half of the season while Samsonov got his footing and Woll recovered. Was he great? No but he did win some important games at the beginning of the season. At the end of the day they either LTIR Murry or Buy him out with Ottawa spending more money on the buy out. They really was no down side to acquiring Murray.

 

[FerrisRox]

Mike Smith played every game in the Oilers playoff run and then was LTIR'd for the entire following year, and people act like its impossible for that to happen to Murray because he dressed as a back up lol?

Mike Smith failed his physical at training camp the following year leading to his LTIR placement. The Oilers didn't just "decide" he was going on LTIR.

 

[Mess]

The issue is whether or not Murray is actually injured. The best empirical evidence we have at this time is that he is healthy.

Do you happen to know now that the Samsonov ruling has been completed and a 2nd buyout window occurs how long a team has to become cap compliant for off-season rules?

We know $83.5 mil Ceiling + 10% slush fund ($8.35 mil) + Muzzin LTIR ( $5.625 mil) = $97,475,000 max spending off-season

Leafs

PROJECTED CAP HIT

: $95,881,450​

So it appears the team is still legal, until when the 10% slush fund ends preparing opening day rosters submitted = $89,125,000.

PRE-SEASON LTIR CANDIDATE ESTIMATES:

CAP HIT OF LTIR CANDIDATES

: $5,625,000​

CAP SPACE WITH LTIR CANDIDATES

: $0 (-$6,756,450)​

So am I correct in saying Leafs currently must cut $6.756 mil from their legal 23 man roster come regular season opening day roster and Muzz is already removed from that total?

If there is no Murray buyout, and even if Murray would qualify for season beginning LTIR (10 games 24 days etc ) in September by failing his physical, he would still be factored into Leafs opening day roster amount FIRST, and then Leafs could place him on LTIR (if legally injured) and begin to cut into his LTIR relief thereafter. Basically he is not acting similar to Muzzin who does currently qualify or long term IR and Leafs open day roster does not need to be at $83.5 mil (while excluding Muzzin) but it would need to include Murray's full $5.687 mil) for cap compliance opening day roster?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Leafs have to except the arbitration contract because it was under 4.5 million

Ottawa had to pay a 3rd pick 7th round pick and 2 million dollars for 2 season to have him play in Toronto. For an internal cap team that was a high price to pay. What goalie would you have brought in last year? How about this off season?

Murray was also a starting goalie for the Leafs for the first half of the season while Samsonov got his footing and Woll recovered. Was he great? No but he did win some important games at the beginning of the season. At the end of the day they either LTIR Murry or Buy him out with Ottawa spending more money on the buy out. They really was no down side to acquiring Murray.

Lol, like you can just put any guy on LTIR on a whim. It’s not that simple. There was a huge downside to acquire Murray, and it is that he plain sucks. Not to mention this headache for management now about how to get rid of him.

 

[Peasy]

Mike Smith failed his physical at training camp the following year leading to his LTIR placement. The Oilers didn't just "decide" he was going on LTIR.

Yeah I'm sure they were completely shocked when that happened, i'm sure they had no idea that was going to occur.

 

[BallardEra]

Lol, like you can just put any guy on LTIR on a whim. It’s not that simple. There was a huge downside to acquire Murray, and it is that he plain sucks. Not to mention this headache for management now about how to get rid of him.

Didn't the Oilers do the exact same thing to Mike Smith after the playoffs?

I think it's a lot easier to do than most people think.

Mike Smith failed his physical at training camp the following year leading to his LTIR placement. The Oilers didn't just "decide" he was going on LTIR.

I'm sure the Leafs will find a way for Murray to fail his too...lol

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If players can go to arbitration and get more money, the team should be able to take players to arbitration to get back overpay money.

It should be a zero sum affair. Marner and Matthews lose 2AAV each and the 4AAV gets spread to Samsonov, Nylander, and O'Reilly.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Leafs have to except the arbitration contract because it was under 4.5 million

Ottawa had to pay a 3rd pick 7th round pick and 2 million dollars for 2 season to have him play in Toronto. For an internal cap team that was a high price to pay. What goalie would you have brought in last year? How about this off season?

Murray was also a starting goalie for the Leafs for the first half of the season while Samsonov got his footing and Woll recovered. Was he great? No but he did win some important games at the beginning of the season. At the end of the day they either LTIR Murry or Buy him out with Ottawa spending more money on the buy out. They really was no down side to acquiring Murray.

Certainly was a downside...cap money..
I have no idea who to bring in. Leafs have not developed 1 goalie in many many years. Hope Woll is exception now.
But a great goalie is more value than JT for 11m.

 

[ToDavid]

Mike Smith failed his physical at training camp the following year leading to his LTIR placement. The Oilers didn't just "decide" he was going on LTIR.

It was widely reported in the summer that he was going on LTIR. They signed a starting goalie the second free agency opened and clearly used his expected LTIR space building their roster in the off-season... He didn't just show up to camp and fail his physical.

 

[Clark4Ever]

It came in a bit lower than I expected.

Very reasonable deal for the Leafs to accept under the circumstances.

 

[Squiffy]

Only here lives the suggestion that LTIR is somehow a legit possibility. Really doubtful I’d think. We’re just living on a prayer that he’s hurt so good.

 

[FerrisRox]

It was widely reported in the summer that he was going on LTIR. They signed a starting goalie the second free agency opened and clearly used his expected LTIR space building their roster in the off-season... He didn't just show up to camp and fail his physical.

Smith himself informed them when the season ended he didn't believe he was capable of continuing his playing career. He was 40, badly beat up, and had spent the past two seasons barely playing due to a string of injuries. His career was essentially over.

The point remains though, the Oilers didn't "decide" to put him on LTIR, his health issues made it a forgone conclusion.

Murray is very unlikely to want to end his career at age 29 and there's no evidence at all that he is injured let alone to the point of missing the season.

The Maple Leafs can't decide, for him, that he's not healthy enough to play. That's deep fantasy land stuff.

 

[ScJeff]

If players can go to arbitration and get more money, the team should be able to take players to arbitration to get back overpay money.

It should be a zero sum affair. Marner and Matthews lose 2AAV each and the 4AAV gets spread to Samsonov, Nylander, and O'Reilly.

Teams can take players to arbitration and have them take less money. You just can't do it to contracts that already exist....

If you don't want to go to arbitration with a player don't qualify a aribration eligible RFA. If you qualify them you know thats a risk..

But 3.55 is not a bad deal for the leafs.

 

[nuck]

Thanks Dubas
We now have 2 over paid goalies, both who are often injured, neither you can count on. Ottawa are laughing their asses off.

If you are referring to Sammy can't they still trade him now? You aren't stuck with a player signed to a decent number who is tradeable. They can buy out Murray and have less committed to goalies than last year, although the $2M shoe drops next year.

 

[notbias]

Thanks Dubas
We now have 2 over paid goalies, both who are often injured, neither you can count on. Ottawa are laughing their asses off.

Ottawa just signed a backup as their #1, they have their own issues.

And Treliving just signed Samsanov, what are you talking about?

 

[JKG33]

At least he's not trash like Murray, but that's a lot of money for yet another goalie that sucks in the playoffs

 

[thusk]

1 its happened to smith, its happened to price...

An average men life during 82 year

82-29 = 53 years remaining... a question Murray have to ask to himself with every different injuries he had by the past...how do he want to live those 53 remaining years of his lives... by keepeing a quality of live by protecting hus body for rest of his live or by going all in and maybe living with chronic pain of injury for remaining of his live...

 

[mouser]

1 its happened to smith, its happened to price...

An average men life during 82 year

82-29 = 53 years remaining... a question Murray have to ask to himself with every different injuries he had by the past...how do he want to live those 53 remaining years of his lives... by keepeing a quality of live by protecting hus body for rest of his live or by going all in and maybe living with chronic pain of injury for remaining of his live...

Mike Smith - age 40, 670 NHL games
Carey Price - age 34, 712 NHL games
Matt Murray - age 28, 272 NHL games

 

[NJG]

Every little bit helps and I still don't understand why Reaves was signed to begin with? Is a guy like him really that necessary to the team and worst of all why 3 YEARS?? Even if you really wanted him could we not have simply signed him to a one year instead so that if he doesn't work out he can be gone by the end of the season?

They obviously felt it was necessary and worth it, hence why they did it. Signing him for less and shorter term... maybe in your world that makes sense but in reality... Everyone gets overpaid in free agency, he didn't want to leave Minnesota, so you're paying more for that as well. He's 36 and this is the last deal of his career no way he's not going to ask for 3 years.

 

[mouser]

Do you happen to know now that the Samsonov ruling has been completed and a 2nd buyout window occurs how long a team has to become cap compliant for off-season rules?

We know $83.5 mil Ceiling + 10% slush fund ($8.35 mil) + Muzzin LTIR ( $5.625 mil) = $97,475,000 max spending off-season

Leafs

PROJECTED CAP HIT

: $95,881,450​

So it appears the team is still legal, until when the 10% slush fund ends preparing opening day rosters submitted = $89,125,000.

PRE-SEASON LTIR CANDIDATE ESTIMATES:

CAP HIT OF LTIR CANDIDATES

: $5,625,000​

CAP SPACE WITH LTIR CANDIDATES

: $0 (-$6,756,450)​

So am I correct in saying Leafs currently must cut $6.756 mil from their legal 23 man roster come regular season opening day roster and Muzz is already removed from that total?

If there is no Murray buyout, and even if Murray would qualify for season beginning LTIR (10 games 24 days etc ) in September by failing his physical, he would still be factored into Leafs opening day roster amount FIRST, and then Leafs could place him on LTIR (if legally injured) and begin to cut into his LTIR relief thereafter. Basically he is not acting similar to Muzzin who does currently qualify or long term IR and Leafs open day roster does not need to be at $83.5 mil (while excluding Muzzin) but it would need to include Murray's full $5.687 mil) for cap compliance opening day roster?

Toronto is already compliant for the offseason 110% cap. They placed Muzzin on off-season LTIR prior to signing Domi.

Cap usage is calculated different in the off-season also. The CapFriendly numbers are projecting where the team will be at when the regular season starts.

Using the current CapFriendly projections of $6.756m over the cap yields

a) buyout Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.96m over the cap. Need to move one ~$2m contract out, or send two ~$1m players to the AHL for a 20 man opening roster.

b) Trade Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.27m over the cap. Still kind of in the same boat as you can't simply send one player to the AHL to keep a 21 man roster. There is an option to bury a $1.125m+ contract and swap Knies for a $775k min player from the AHL. That would create a 21 man compliant roster for day 1. However there wouldn't be cap space to recall Knies without someone else going on LTIR or removing another contract equal to or greater than Knies' $925k.

 

[Mess]

Toronto is already compliant for the offseason 110% cap. They placed Muzzin on off-season LTIR prior to signing Domi.

Cap usage is calculated different in the off-season also. The CapFriendly numbers are projecting where the team will be at when the regular season starts.

Using the current CapFriendly projections of $6.756m over the cap yields

a) buyout Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.96m over the cap. Need to move one ~$2m contract out, or send two ~$1m players to the AHL for a 20 man opening roster.

b) Trade Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.27m over the cap. Still kind of in the same boat as you can't simply send one player to the AHL to keep a 21 man roster. There is an option to bury a $1.125m+ contract and swap Knies for a $775k min player from the AHL. That would create a 21 man compliant roster for day 1. However there wouldn't be cap space to recall Knies without someone else going on LTIR or removing another contract equal to or greater than Knies' $925k.

THX

So a Murray buyout and say a Jarnkrok ($2.1 mil) trade for futures would be something to look for essentially?

 

[-DeMo-]

One problem I see with the LTIR scenario people keep pointing to this guy or that guy almost everyone if not everyone who has gone on LTIR has not stepped foot back on the ice for an NHL game. So they were essentially done. Is that Matt Murray?

 

[thusk]

Mike Smith - age 40, 670 NHL games
Carey Price - age 34, 712 NHL games
Matt Murray - age 28, 272 NHL games

Doesn't change the fact

Murray 12 different injuries in his carreer just as exemple Price is at 6.

 

[kmwtrucks]

what about TOR 1st, lafferty and Murray for Vancouver's 2nd in 2024. moves blackhawks up 10-15 picks more then likely. if its more then 15 chicago adds a 4th on 2025

 

[Squiffy]

THX

So a Murray buyout and say a Jarnkrok ($2.1 mil) trade for futures would be something to look for essentially?

Any teams out there with deep pockets, lots of cap and a bad gm to take a Murray+Jarnkrok trade?