Confirmed with Link: G Ilya Samsonov heads to arbitration (Awarded 1 year, $3.55M)

[The Iceman]

I'd rather keep Murray as 1A, 1B with Woll rather than buy him out and lose the valuable cap space. Maybe we can re-sign Murray to a reasonable deal early next season.

Let Samsonov walk, trade Jarnkrok and Liljegren (does this get us under?)

Bertuzzi Matthews Marner
Knies Tavares Nylander
Robertson Domi Holmberg
Lafferty Kampf Reaves

Reilly Mccabe
Klingberg Brodie
Timmins Gio

Woll/Murray

I think you would be stuck with Woll as the starter and searching for a back-up.

Too much risk, Murray has proven he can't stay healthy.

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

Toronto is already compliant for the offseason 110% cap. They placed Muzzin on off-season LTIR prior to signing Domi.

Cap usage is calculated different in the off-season also. The CapFriendly numbers are projecting where the team will be at when the regular season starts.

Using the current CapFriendly projections of $6.756m over the cap yields

a) buyout Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.96m over the cap. Need to move one ~$2m contract out, or send two ~$1m players to the AHL for a 20 man opening roster.

b) Trade Murray and Robertson to AHL. 22 man roster $1.27m over the cap. Still kind of in the same boat as you can't simply send one player to the AHL to keep a 21 man roster. There is an option to bury a $1.125m+ contract and swap Knies for a $775k min player from the AHL. That would create a 21 man compliant roster for day 1. However there wouldn't be cap space to recall Knies without someone else going on LTIR or removing another contract equal to or greater than Knies' $925k.

I think you forgot to subtract Dylan Gambrell ($775,000) form the Cap Friendly numbers. This would give a 21 man roster (12+7+2) and under scenario A $1.185M over the CAP and scenario B $495K over the CAP. Scenario B could be addressed by waiving/trading Timmins, wheras scenario A is more challenging. Thus, I dont think they buyout Murray. Either LTIR or trade him.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Lol, like you can just put any guy on LTIR on a whim. It’s not that simple. There was a huge downside to acquire Murray, and it is that he plain sucks. Not to mention this headache for management now about how to get rid of him.

But you can put inured players on LTIR. With his various injuries it will not be too hard to pick one. Especially Post Concussion symptoms.

As for him plain sucking I remember reading posts on HF me even posted they were the best tandem in the league. It is pretty hard to make the argument "he sucks" when he was in the top 10 of most goalie categories in the first half of the season. He startany of the simpltd to get hurt and either couldn't play or the injuries effected his play. He won 14 games and even recorded a shut out. That is not a goalie who sucks. His contract is far from a headache right now. If he is healthy they buy him out if not LTIR. It is in Murray's best interest to not be bought out as it will cost him 2 million in real dollars.

But Murray is a headache for many of the simpletons out there.

 

[rocketman588]

But you can put inured players on LTIR. With his various injuries it will not be too hard to pick one. Especially Post Concussion symptoms.

As for him plain sucking I remember reading posts on HF me even posted they were the best tandem in the league. It is pretty hard to make the argument "he sucks" when he was in the top 10 of most goalie categories in the first half of the season. He startany of the simpltd to get hurt and either couldn't play or the injuries effected his play. He won 14 games and even recorded a shut out. That is not a goalie who sucks. His contract is far from a headache right now. If he is healthy they buy him out if not LTIR. It is in Murray's best interest to not be bought out as it will cost him 2 million in real dollars.

But Murray is a headache for many of the simpletons out there.

I mean the issue with Murray is that he gets "hurt" every time his game is about to implode. That's why his numbers weren't bad the last two seasons because he was mid implosion when they shut him down

From December until they shut him down he had over a .900 save percentage 7 times in 19 games and was under a .900 for the month from January on.

He basically had a good November. He got figured out when teams realized he was using the posts to cheat laterally ( which is why he kept knocking them off)

 

[Niagara Bill]

Ottawa just signed a backup as their #1, they have their own issues.

And Treliving just signed Samsanov, what are you talking about?

What year are looking at. Palm-tree retired.
We now have Murray, Samsonov and Woll
Treliving did not sign Samsonov, they went to arb to protect an asset that no may be traded.
Dubas wasted 4.5m of cap on Murray and 1.8m on Sam.

 

[Niagara Bill]

If you are referring to Sammy can't they still trade him now? You aren't stuck with a player signed to a decent number who is tradeable. They can buy out Murray and have less committed to goalies than last year, although the $2M shoe drops next year.

Yes, his 3.7m may force them into a trade. And Murray at season end was declared ready to play so maybe no LTIR,
Maybe Murray will return to Pitt for Dubas since he loves him.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I mean the issue with Murray is that he gets "hurt" every time his game is about to implode. That's why his numbers weren't bad the last two seasons because he was mid implosion when they shut him down

From December until they shut him down he had over a .900 save percentage 7 times in 19 games and was under a .900 for the month from January on.

He basically had a good November. He got figured out when teams realized he was using the posts to cheat laterally ( which is why he kept knocking them off

Again, he provided the Leafs with number one goaltending from Oct to Dec/Jan. at zero cost other than money. When he was hurt his salary is on LTIR and they can use it in other ways. Same as this year. He will be on LTIR and his cap hit goes towards Domi and Samsonov.

 

[stickty111]

what about TOR 1st, lafferty and Murray for Vancouver's 2nd in 2024. moves blackhawks up 10-15 picks more then likely. if its more then 15 chicago adds a 4th on 2025

Murray's deal is not so bad that Leafs need to add a 1st and a depth piece to move it.

 

[Stephen]

One thing that annoys the hell out of me with the Matt Murray buyout is how oddly the buyout cap hit divides between Year 1 and Year 2. Such a Bettman-ism that they can't even do a buyout with giving teams a chance to amortize the cap over a period of their choosing or any custom control that might result in a better on ice product.

"No we just have to punish you at every turn and close every loophole, and if you figure out a way to functionally live with the cap we'll take that away too."

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[mouser]

what about TOR 1st, lafferty and Murray for Vancouver's 2nd in 2024. moves blackhawks up 10-15 picks more then likely. if its more then 15 chicago adds a 4th on 2025

Doubt Chicago would consider that enough value.
- Lafferty even with positive value isn‘t what Chicago is looking for—picks/prospects.
- $6m salary for Murray in 2023-24 should return more than upgrading a mid 2nd to a late 1st.

 

[kmwtrucks]

Murray's deal is not so bad that Leafs need to add a 1st and a depth piece to move it.

U are giving up a late 1st and receiving an early second to get Murray off your books. Other option is $700k dead hit this year and $2mil next

 

[kb]

Mrazek can't even stop a puck, has his own injury issues, had 2 years and $8.6 million real money left on his deal......and only cost 13 spots in the draft to move.

I can't even fathom some of the deals I am seeing here to move Murray.

 

[Peasy]

Mrazek can't even stop a puck, has his own injury issues, had 2 years and $8.6 million real money left on his deal......and only cost 13 spots in the draft to move.

I can't even fathom some of the deals I am seeing here to move Murray.

Buncha non leaf fans just in here chatting. Average leaf board experience.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I mean the issue with Murray is that he gets "hurt" every time his game is about to implode. That's why his numbers weren't bad the last two seasons because he was mid implosion when they shut him down

From December until they shut him down he had over a .900 save percentage 7 times in 19 games and was under a .900 for the month from January on.

He basically had a good November. He got figured out when teams realized he was using the posts to cheat laterally ( which is why he kept knocking them off)

OR the "implosions" were his multiple injuries starting to catch up to him. Again he won 14 tied 2 out of the 24 games he started and with him handling the number 1 spot until Samsonov took over. Not bad return on a player who was free from the other team. As for his actual 6 million dollar salary the Leafs use that to light the cigars in the board room each year.

He will be on LTIR for the year as it is in Murray's best interest to be. If he gets bought out he loses 2 million that he cannot recover by playing.

 

[Mess]

Doubt Chicago would consider that enough value.
- Lafferty even with positive value isn‘t what Chicago is looking for—picks/prospects.
- $6m salary for Murray in 2023-24 should return more than upgrading a mid 2nd to a late 1st.

Leafs just got Lafferty and McCabe at the trade deadline from Chicago.

Maple Leafs acquire McCabe, Lafferty in trade with Blackhawks​

Jake McCabe and Sam Lafferty were traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs by the Chicago Blackhawks on Monday.

Toronto also acquired a conditional fifth-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft and a conditional fifth-round pick in the 2025 NHL Draft for forward Joey Anderson , forward prospect Pavel Gogolev, a conditional first-round pick in the 2025 draft and a second-round pick in the 2026 NHL Draft.

McCabe has two seasons remaining on a four-year, $16 million contact he signed with the Blackhawks on July 28, 2021. Chicago will retain 50 percent of McCabe's salary.

PS. Chicago already got Leafs 1st round pick from 2022 for Leafs dumping Mrazek on them, and if it costs another 1st to dump another goalie Murray then Chicago will be making 3 X 1st round selections (2022, 2024 & 2025) of Leafs former 1sts at Leafs expense mainly for correcting former GM poor goaltending decisions.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I'd rather keep Murray as 1A, 1B with Woll rather than buy him out and lose the valuable cap space. Maybe we can re-sign Murray to a reasonable deal early next season.

Let Samsonov walk, trade Jarnkrok and Liljegren (does this get us under?)

Woll/Murray

 

[Mess]

I'd be presently surprised and closer to shocked if Treliving could find any dance partner to unload Murray and avoid a buyout, without including a sweetener that we might regret.

GMs understand the terrible contract of Murray ($6 mil in balance owing) and the tough position the Leafs find themselves in cap wise that Leafs new GM inherited, and not going to rush in and bail Leafs out of their self inflicted mess, without it really benefiting them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'd be presently surprised and closer to shocked if Treliving could find any dance partner to unload Murray and avoid a buyout, without including a sweetener that we might regret.

Yeah, it seems like we unfortunately got rid of the guy who could do that.

 

[ACC1224]

I'd be presently surprised and closer to shocked if Treliving could find any dance partner to unload Murray and avoid a buyout, without including a sweetener that we might regret.

GMs understand the terrible contract of Murray ($6 mil in balance owing) and the tough position the Leafs find themselves in cap wise that Leafs new GM inherited, and not going to rush in and bail Leafs out of their self inflicted mess, without it really benefiting them.

There is that guy in Pittsburgh who's notorious for being ripped off on Goalie acquisitions. I imagine he's the first one they'll call.

 

[81Leafs50]

The major CBA medical evaluation points:

a) The Leafs doctor(s) clearing Murray as fit to play on ~May 9th, after which he dressed as a backup in games.
b) The results of Murray‘s end of season exit physical. After each teams playing season is over teams conduct exit physicals on each player, including whether the player is medically fit or unfit to play.

We don’t know the results of (b), but Murray didn’t play in a game between (a) May 9th and (b) (unknown date) likely May 13th to 15th. It would be very unusual for Murray to by cleared in (a) but fail (b) less than a week later.

The next CBA mandated player physical is

c) At the opening of training camp in September, all players are given physicals by the team doctor(s).

Teams cannot require a player to submit themself for a physical between (b) and (c). My understanding is the player can voluntarily undergo a physical during this period. This would most commonly happen if a player was rehabbing an injury under the supervision of team doctors. Note: even if a player is rehabbing a injury during the off-season the player is not required to do so under the care of team physicians—the player can use their own selected medical personnel.


If Murray was cleared as fit to play in (b), but wants to claim he is currently injured and unable to play he would have to successfully pursue one of three routes:

1) Challenge the doctors evaluation of being fit to play in (b) was incorrect, seeking a second opinion.
2) Argue he has endured a setback related to a pre-existing injury after it was cleared in (b).
3) Argue he a new injury in the off-season after (b) which qualifies as an injury incurred in the course of his employment as a hockey player. For example in off-season training.


My personal takes:
- I’m skeptical on (2). Most players don’t do any serious ice time training in July. The only realistic claim I could see is if there’s a concussion related setback.
- (3) Is something of a grey area. Would need clear evidence of a covered injury. And keep in mind such an injury would be unlikely to keep Murray out for the 2023-24 season.
- (1) Would be the most likely route for a challenge.


- Lastly I want to emphasize even if Murray isn’t healthy today, that doesn’t automatically mean he would qualify for LTIR the entire 2023-24 season. Buying out Murray now is a much cleaner solution for Toronto vs dealing with how to dump Murray if he’s cleared to play during the 2023-24 season. Especially the earlier in the season he’s cleared.

I HATE THE CAP SYSTEM because of posts like this. This hurts hockey a lot.

 

[rocketman588]

Yeah, it seems like we unfortunately got rid of the guy who could do that.

You mean the guy that gave up multiple first round picks to dump contracts and then took basically nothing for only a 25% retention of Murray?

Yeah dude was great at not giving up sweeteners to dump deals

 

[Dekes For Days]

You mean the guy that gave up multiple first round picks to dump contracts

No, I mean the guy who moved a worse goalie coming off an injury-filled season that had more term and more money owed, without a buyout or including any significant sweetener.

 

[mouser]

For the curious:

The 48 hour buyout window which runs through Wednesday and Thursday is the window to file buyout paperwork. The player does not need to clear waivers before the buyout paperwork is filed. If for example the buyout was filed with the NHL late on Thursday then Murray would go on waivers Friday.

 

[rocketman588]

No, I mean the guy who moved a worse goalie coming off an injury-filled season that had more term and more money owed, without a buyout or including any significant sweetener.

He gave up a first round pick not to mention his cap hit was a million less. Shouldn't you be on the pens board anyways.

You're still on here celebrating every move that a GM who won nothing then left after trying to get his salary offer doubled.

Obviously don't actually care about the team