Friedman "wonders" if there are GMs out there upset at Briere for trying to trade them Carter Hart

[StreetHawk]

The roster has 22 players (2G, 7D, 13F)

Three weren’t at the Gala or in London that night: Kyrou, Mete, Clague
So that’s 19 for sure.

Unless I’m mistaken it was announced that only CHL players were involved which eliminated the NCAA players: Makar, Fabbro, Point
That makes it 16.

Can we go by statements?

Alex Formenton: no statement
Well that ended up making sense.

How about statements that weren’t full denials of involvement?

Mike McLeod:

Arrested.

Dillon Dube:

Arrested.

Drake Batherson

Not arrested.

Boris Katchouk

Not Arrested.

How about full denials?


Oh. Huh.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-statements-world-juniors-2018-1.6597503

I look at it that their agent/lawyer would tell them, don't come out with a statement of Denial Unless you are 100% NOT involved. Because, if you do and it later comes out that you were, you will have lost all credibility with a jury if it goes to trial.

In McLeod, Katchock, Foremention's statements, they acknowledged the situation and investigation, but no comment on his involvement. Probably the most you should say at that point in time.

Dube, agent's quotes are not favorable if his client does end up going to trial.

Foote, the writer, didn't quote the agent, which seems odd for something this serious. Seems more of a summary of their conversation. So, that can be open to interpretation. Not sure how that would play in a court of law or even would be considered evidence in court.

For these GMs, you know the roster and what it got narrowed down to as potentially involved. You are best served not looking into acquiring anyone of those guys once the case was re-opened.

Neither for or against the players. Hope there is enough evidence to support the truth of whatever happened that day.

 

[Number8]

And? The players weren't banned from the league or anything like Miller was. What's he supposed to do? Suspend them based on rumors?

I get it. The two are not exactly the same (Miller was convicted in court prior to Bruins signing him).

And i honestly don’t know what it would look like — legally or otherwise.

I’m just saying that Bettman better look really carefully at his own house, here. The NHL did their own investigation, the results of which we’ve never seen. And to what end, if the only thing that matters to them appears to be the outcome of the legal system?

Besides, Mitch Miller was convicted and served his Court mandated “sentence” prior to any subsequent signing. And, no, I not trying to defend Miller or Bruins in any way. Just suggesting that Bettman can’t be holier than thou selectively.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I get it. The two are not exactly the same (Miller was convicted in court prior to Bruins signing him).

And i honestly don’t know what it would look like — legally or otherwise.

I’m just saying that Bettman better look really carefully at his own house, here. The NHL did their own investigation, the results of which we’ve never seen. And to what end, if the only thing that matters to them appears to be the outcome of the legal system?

Besides, Mitch Miller was convicted and served his Court mandated “sentence” prior to any subsequent signing. And, no, I not trying to defend Miller or Bruins in any way. Just suggesting that Bettman can’t be holier than thou selectively.

He's not being selective. These players were anonymous (officially) and only under investigation.

If the league just suspended them all then they'd be blowing the whistle on an active police investigation.

It's ludicrous to expect the league to take action before the players names were anything other than rumors.

That's just crapping on Bettman for the sake of it.

 

[joestevens29]

who was the goalie the oilers nearly acquired when the deal fell off at the last minute? I think it was Carter. Usually when a deal fall flat at the last moment, the media is all over it but but this time they moved on very quickly.

The guy mentioned apparently had a NTC/NMC, so it ended there.

Hart doesn't have one of those.

 

[Rare Jewel]

It's quite easy to see how some are reacting to this, but Eliotte doesn't usually just throw things out there. Perhaps they weren't forthcoming with info, or they didn't know the extent of Hart's involvement.

But you can see why some GMs could be upset if they were thinking about giving up some good pieces for a guy who may not be playing for a long time, if ever, again.

 

[HBK27]

I get it. The two are not exactly the same (Miller was convicted in court prior to Bruins signing him).

And i honestly don’t know what it would look like — legally or otherwise.

I’m just saying that Bettman better look really carefully at his own house, here. The NHL did their own investigation, the results of which we’ve never seen. And to what end, if the only thing that matters to them appears to be the outcome of the legal system?

Besides, Mitch Miller was convicted and served his Court mandated “sentence” prior to any subsequent signing. And, no, I not trying to defend Miller or Bruins in any way. Just suggesting that Bettman can’t be holier than thou selectively.

When was the NHL's investigation completed?

If I'm not mistaken, the results were not released because (a) it was pending appeal and (b) they didn't want it to influence the active police investigation.

I think people are really reaching if you think the NHL or GM's should be facing any sanctions just for employing these players before charges were brought.

 

[Number8]

He's not being selective. These players were anonymous (officially) and only under investigation.

If the league just suspended them all then they'd be blowing the whistle on an active police investigation.

It's ludicrous to expect the league to take action before the players names were anything other than rumors.

That's just crapping on Bettman for the sake of it.

I get it, and I confess I dislike Bettman. So, probably guilty as charged.

i do wonder what the purpose of the NHL investigation into this affair was for, though.

Sounds like it had no purpose if this was, in their eyes, unactionable in absence of legal process/police investigation.

 

[HBK27]

It's quite easy to see how some are reacting to this, but Eliotte doesn't usually just throw things out there. Perhaps they weren't forthcoming with info, or they didn't know the extent of Hart's involvement.

But you can see why some GMs could be upset if they were thinking about giving up some good pieces for a guy who may not be playing for a long time, if ever, again.

Only if Briere had some inside knowledge of the situation via the police and/or NHL investigations that other GM's would not have had access to, which I highly doubt was the case. Could be as simple as they felt it would not have been good optics to trade the highest profile player in this case just months before charges were brought, even if Briere only thought that was a possibility at the time.

 

[Number8]

When was the NHL's investigation completed?

If I'm not mistaken, the results were not released because (a) it was pending appeal and (b) they didn't want it to influence the active police investigation.

I think people are really reaching if you think the NHL or GM's should be facing any sanctions just for employing these players before charges were brought.

Maybe so. I do wonder though, again, what intent of NHL investigation was to begin with.

 

[HBK27]

Maybe so. I do wonder though, again, what intent of NHL investigation was to begin with.

It's a fair question - I suspect at the very least it was a CYA move, but I think in the event that the 2nd police investigation also yielded no charges (due to it these types of cases generally being difficult to prove), the league could've still taken disciplinary actions against the players pending the results of the investigation. Pinto was suspended for 1/2 a season without committing any crime, so I don't think the move would've been unprecedented. The NHL would also be showing (to whatever extent) that they take these matters seriously by releasing the full details of the investigation and even without any formal suspensions or disciplinary actions, there might've been some teams/GM's that would've fully avoiding some/all of the players involved.

 

[Number8]

It's a fair question - I suspect at the very least it was a CYA move, but I think in the event that the 2nd police investigation also yielded no charges (due to it these types of cases generally being difficult to prove), the league could've still taken disciplinary actions against the players pending the results of the investigation. Pinto was suspended for 1/2 a season without committing any crime, so I don't think the move would've been unprecedented. The NHL would also be showing (to whatever extent) that they take these matters seriously by releasing the full details of the investigation and even without any formal suspensions or disciplinary actions, there might've been some teams/GM's that would've fully avoiding some/all of the players involved.

Probably true.

Regardless of any of this, I do think at least one potential positive outcome of this is that hockey groups are going to have to take this issue with much more seriousness moving forward (obviously they are not alone, here). There is a problem. I hope no one can deny that at least.

 

[M88K]

On the Marek show this morning.

Friedman was discussing about how he wonders if there are GMs out there that might be peeved at Briere for trying to trade Carter Hart this off-season. He was speculating that this might be viewed as bad business and dealing in bad faith if Philly knew the magnitude of Hart's involvement in the alleged crime.

If you recall there were plenty of reports and speculation that Hart was available for trade this off-season and fall...It went so far as Hart unfollowed the Flyers in his Social Media accounts.

This isnt a good look on Briere nor is it good business practice to alienate the other GMs that youll need to make deals with in the future.

4 of the 5 names have been listed in public since the a month after the story broke in 2022, including Hart.
If I knew 4 of the names with 80% certainty in June of 2022, there is no way an NHL GM didn't know them with 100% certainty in 2023.
I'd venture a guess it's why trade talks went nowhere.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Only if Briere had some inside knowledge of the situation via the police and/or NHL investigations that other GM's would not have had access to, which I highly doubt was the case. Could be as simple as they felt it would not have been good optics to trade the highest profile player in this case just months before charges were brought, even if Briere only thought that was a possibility at the time.

It is impossible to know when whatever trade talks happened, but we've known for nearly 2 years now that most of the players from that 2018 team, to some extent, have been wrapped in red tape.

If it happened in that time, then the GMs who are angry now don't have a leg to stand on. But as for Friedman's reporting, I think he's one the best, and he's typically quite cautious when it comes to speculation about anything really, so I don't doubt that there's likely truth in what he says.

 

[HBK27]

It is impossible to know when whatever trade talks happened, but we've known for nearly 2 years now that most of the players from that 2018 team, to some extent, have been wrapped in red tape.

If it happened in that time, then the GMs who are angry now don't have a leg to stand on. But as for Friedman's reporting, I think he's one the best, and he's typically quite cautious when it comes to speculation about anything really, so I don't doubt that there's likely truth in what he says.

Briere has been GM for less than a year, so the trade talks most assuredly took place over the summer when Hart's name was supposedly out there.

I'd agree that there is likely some truth in what he says, but does that mean he's hearing this directly from other GM's, or someone else within the league speculating about other GM's or just speculating on his own? Difficult to say. I didn't hear the actual clip itself, so we're also all just going off a second hand account of what he said.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

The first and last time I played 52 Pickup, I realized it was my own fault.

If Briere duped any GM, they would've deserved it!

 

[SK13]

It’s possible that they found out after they acquired him. It would explain letting them walk as an RFA after just acquiring months before.

Well, another reason I wonder is that trade was very odd. 5 draft picks and Foote for Jeannot. So did they pay a premium in-part to get Nashville to take Foote (in which case, both parties would have known prior to trade)?

 

[yianik]

Yes, because that's how the situation came to be - make sure everyone shuts up about it and toes the line. Don't say anything about shitty things that happen in the back room dealings of teams, certainly not in the places players are up to no good.

Seems like they've tried this and it's not the way.

When this happened and came to light years ago, it should have been turned over to the police instead of being hushed up.

What I get from Friedman is he is wondering if Briere tried to pull a fast one on other GMs. Is this from a GM he spoke with ? If so why doesn't he say an unnamed GM said so. Sounds like speculation and you don't speculate over this. So yes, if he won't at least say a GM told him there is concern Briere didn't disclose......, then he should shut up.

 

[wetcoast]

Why do you think there was no trade? It's not a nothing burger unless you actually think Carter Hart isn't better than Cam Talbot and Phoenix Copley.

Or some combination of Samsonov Woll and Jones.

Or some combination of Levi, Comire and UPL.

Carter Hart would be the #1 goalie on every team I mentioned by MILES yet there was no trade why do you think that is?

It's not a nothing burger.

Think about it.

It's a nothing burger because he wasn't traded, if he had been traded then there would be something that the GM trading for him to be upset about right?

 

[Nucker101]

Don't really understand the hate for Friedman here, he's just curious about it and it's something people wondered about when Tampa moved off of players who were on that WJC team. He's not even accusing anyone of anything lol.

People are just looking for reasons to get mad here.

 

[Chainshot]

When this happened and came to light years ago, it should have been turned over to the police instead of being hushed up.

What I get from Friedman is he is wondering if Briere tried to pull a fast one on other GMs. Is this from a GM he spoke with ? If so why doesn't he say an unnamed GM said so. Sounds like speculation and you don't speculate over this. So yes, if he won't at least say a GM told him there is concern Briere didn't disclose......, then he should shut up.

Read between the lines - there is enough other chatter from within team management for some franchise for Friedman to mention this. Likely off the record and perhaps not even from the team that was reportedly closest to a deal for Hart (Montreal over the summer). GM's are often in cliques, people who worked with one another or worked under the same mentor. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone has said something off the record that indicates someone, be it Kent Hughes or some other GM, isn't thrilled with this.

 

[Joe Sakic]

At least he didn't push a wheelchair down some stairs

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Obviously Hart’s name was one of the ones speculated for a while but where were people saying it was him out right with confidence?

 

[Dust]

Obviously Hart’s name was one of the ones speculated for a while but where were people saying it was him out right with confidence?

They weren't. The only single player that everyone seemed to have certainty on was the one that made no statement at all.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

They weren't. The only single player that everyone seemed to have certainty on was the one that made no statement at all.

Formenton? He was obvious. One of the odder things about this incident is that 2 of the 3 names I heard thrown around the most weren’t the ones charged. I wonder if they are witnesses of some sort because if there is a lot of smoke, then there often is a semblance of truth in some way. Anyway, I’ve just find it interesting that I’ve seen quite a few posts saying Hart was always known. Maybe in league circles but I’ve never seen anyone here drop his name confidently online. Maybe I wasn’t in the right places though

 

[tsujimoto74]

Did Nashville know about Cal Foote when they made the Jeannot trade? I only ask because if they did, then at least some GMs knew names.

Obviously there's any extent to which NHL execs were aware of at least some of these players' alleged involvement last off-season. Formenton wouldn't have gone unsigned otherwise. Philly trying to trade Hart doesn't look great. NJ signing 2 of these guys also doesn't look great.