[Friedman] Pittsburgh hires Kyle Dubas as President of Hockey Operations

[BayStBullies]

Lol, just love how the script changed. Dubas is a genius now.

We all predicted it. Sheep be sheep.

 

[Donnie740]

You're doing the same. You're saying you argued for years he overpaid and now you're arguing he did a great job.

In regards to your first point, due to Dubas' mistakes, yes the core 4 needed to be broken up. However, ironically, it was his arrogance that lead to the core 4 needing to be broken up and his arrogance that made sure he didn't break them up.

If Dubas didn't overpay Matthews/Marner/Nylander (at the time) - then he probably wouldn't have to break up the core 4. So it was simply due to him overpaying his players and then being arrogant about 'we can and will' that ended up costing him his job.

He mismanaged the Leafs. It wouldn't matter if he won a cup, which is why fans had the let's wait and see approach. However, he barely won a round in his tenure and he left the team worse off than he joined them. He's also traded away 2 of the next 3 first round picks for the next GM. That's the sign of a bad GM.

The Kadri trade was also horrible for the Leafs, as well him protecting Holl over McCann. Him relying on Matt Murray and Samsonov was bad also - even though Samsonov worked out.

I know he likes to use big words and pretend to be intelligent - but he's not the Harvard graduate - the Harvard graduate is the guy you fired for Dubas. You fired a guy with proven success for a guy who uses unnecessarily big words and accomplished nothing. Dubas also has the philosophy of letting the players run the organization. They can wear whatever they want, do whatever they want - there's no rules with him around. Let's see if that works out for Pittsburgh. I'm sure he'll allow the Penguins to walk in as the NBA players do to express themselves - the complete opposite of Burke.

Tremendous post, accurate on everything.

Glad I’m not the only one who recognizes what an incompetent fraud Dumbass is.

 

[Statto]

I said elsewhere last week, he’s a perfect FSG fit. President of hockey ops makes sense as he can build out everything below him in the moneyball image which FSG like. It doesn’t surprise me at all.

 

[TooManyHumans]

If dubus was feeling thr heat here wait.
The Pittsburgh owners want a Stanley Cup.
Here it was like well we lost again again and again ok let's do nothing not in Pittsburgh.
Pressure you now have dubasss .

Are you seriously claiming that there is more pressure in Pittsburgh than Toronto? Lol. The Pittsburgh media will adore Dubas so long as he gives them attention.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Hahaha “gonna take some time off. Ok I’m done now, new job weee!”

He came off as an absolute weasel in the Toronto debacle and just fails upwards.

I don't think he looks that way to anyone who isn't invested in Toronto.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

We all predicted it. Sheep be sheep.

The true sheeps are the Dubas cult members who still believe in him.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I guess I get why this is such a big deal on here since no person had ever before been let go as a GM and then landed another gig as a GM. The NHL never ever recycles guys.

 

[Voight]

Not the GM though?

Odd

My guess is he wanted less travel given he has young kids.

As POHO you dont need to always travel with the team. So he can stay in PIT for most of the road trips.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess I get why this is such a big deal on here since no person had ever before been let go as a GM and then landed another gig as a GM. The NHL never ever recycles guys.

He’s not going to be a GM.

 

[Voight]

Possibly, but is there anyone left.

I heard Jack Campbell could be available

 

[horner]

Are you seriously claiming that there is more pressure in Pittsburgh than Toronto? Lol. The Pittsburgh media will adore Dubas so long as he gives them attention.

Yep
Dubas never won a round until this yr.
Shanahan was ready to sign him again ( until dubas pulled his big move) and Keefe would have fell into place. Dubas Shanahan and Keefe should have been gone 2 or 3 yrs ago.
No change

Pittsburgh Crosby malkin Letang want a cup bad as do the Pittsburgh ownership if it doesn't happen in 3 yrs , he will be gone

I heard Jack Campbell could be available

Murray

 

[TooManyHumans]

He’s not going to be a GM.

He is until he hires one, if he does.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Yep
Dubas never won a round until this yr.
Shanahan was ready to sign him again ( until dubas pulled his big move) and Keefe would have fell into place. Dubas Shanahan and Keefe should have been gone 2 or 3 yrs ago.
No change

Pittsburgh Crosby malkin Letang want a cup bad as do the Pittsburgh ownership if it doesn't happen in 3 yrs , he will be gone


Murray

He was hired to usher the Penguins into the next era while trying to stay competitive until Crosby is gone. He isn't going to be fired in three years for failing to win a cup.

And anyone who thinks the Pittsburgh media is going to be tougher on him than the Toronto media was knows nothing about the media in either place.

 

[Turin]

Brodie
Giordano
Muzzin
Bunting
Campbell
Samsonov
O’Reilly
Acciari
Spezza
Mikheyev
Barabanov
Schenn

All good players when they were gotten and many were acquired relatively cheaply. His main errors were not upgrading on Kerfoot and not finding another defenseman who can push offensively.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Put your spreadsheet away and try watching the games.

Justin Holl is a God-awful defenceman who belongs in the AHL. Anytime the Leafs gave up a goal in the playoffs, it was almost a certainty that Holl was on the ice.

Timid Liljegren is terrified of his own shadow and does not have much hockey sense. He and Holl were inexplicably on the ice together when the Leafs were eliminated in OT.

Assmus Sandin is hopelessly slow footed and just as easily frightened as Timid Liljegren.

All three are worthless.

Slowdin is a Smurf and too slow to be an elite D in the NHL.

Liljegren is good, but he was a Hunter pick, not a Doobler one.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Sandin and Liljegren are the equivalent. Yes I know Holl played over him in playoffs yes that is because the coach wanted experience above all. But him and Sandin were both solid 2nd pairing dmen for the leafs the past 2 years, last year especially.

Liljegren is going to be a legit dman for us for a long time

Liljegren was drafted by Hunter.

Sandin is meh.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Doobler just fired multiple Penguins FO staff members.

Incoming swarm of Dubasite hires in 3…2…1….

 

[Oleksiak]

Brodie
Giordano
Muzzin
Bunting
Campbell
Samsonov
O’Reilly
Acciari
Spezza
Mikheyev
Barabanov
Schenn

All good players when they were gotten and many were acquired relatively cheaply. His main errors were not upgrading on Kerfoot and not finding another defenseman who can push offensively.

Their entire blueline other than Schenn can't play defence, and you're worried about offence from the blueline? Bottom lins is Dubas simply does not understand what an NHL quality defenceman looks like.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You're doing the same. You're saying you argued for years he overpaid and now you're arguing he did a great job.

Where did I argue he did a good job with those contracts? I was simply pointing out that Leaf fans can't simultaneously criticize him for the Leafs' playoff failures while at the same time defending those contracts when they were signed.

My point was it seems like a lot of Leaf fans are revising history by criticizing Dubas for the Matthews, Marner and Tavares contracts when at the time they were all signed, Leaf fans loved them and were calling anyone who criticized them "haters".

In regards to your first point, due to Dubas' mistakes, yes the core 4 needed to be broken up. However, ironically, it was his arrogance that lead to the core 4 needing to be broken up and his arrogance that made sure he didn't break them up.

If Dubas didn't overpay Matthews/Marner/Nylander (at the time) - then he probably wouldn't have to break up the core 4. So it was simply due to him overpaying his players and then being arrogant about 'we can and will' that ended up costing him his job.

He mismanaged the Leafs. It wouldn't matter if he won a cup, which is why fans had the let's wait and see approach. However, he barely won a round in his tenure and he left the team worse off than he joined them. He's also traded away 2 of the next 3 first round picks for the next GM. That's the sign of a bad GM.

So to clarify, you believe that a core of Matthews, Marner and Tavares are chokers and can't get it done? You're in favor of dealing one or more of those guys and if Treliving keeps them all he's also an idiot?

Because that's the cause of the Leafs' playoff chokes. Those guys not getting it done when it matters. And Dubas' "blame" in that is that he had too much faith in them and didn't move one of them.

Again, to repeat, I'm not arguing he did "good" with regards to building the team around those core four. I'm just pointing out that a lot of Leaf fans seem to have selective memory and only now that Dubas is gone do they argue how badly he managed those contracts. Because at the time you couldn't say a single negative thing about those contracts on here without a horde of Leaf fans swarming you with calls of hater and not knowing how the market works.

 

[Turin]

Their entire blueline other than Schenn can't play defence, and you're worried about offence from the blueline? Bottom lins is Dubas simply does not understand what an NHL quality defenceman looks like.

They were one of the best teams in the league defensively, but ok

 

[Divine]

Where did I argue he did a good job with those contracts? I was simply pointing out that Leaf fans can't simultaneously criticize him for the Leafs' playoff failures while at the same time defending those contracts when they were signed.

My point was it seems like a lot of Leaf fans are revising history by criticizing Dubas for the Matthews, Marner and Tavares contracts when at the time they were all signed, Leaf fans loved them and were calling anyone who criticized them "haters".

So to clarify, you believe that a core of Matthews, Marner and Tavares are chokers and can't get it done? You're in favor of dealing one or more of those guys and if Treliving keeps them all he's also an idiot?

Because that's the cause of the Leafs' playoff chokes. Those guys not getting it done when it matters. And Dubas' "blame" in that is that he had too much faith in them and didn't move one of them.

Again, to repeat, I'm not arguing he did "good" with regards to building the team around those core four. I'm just pointing out that a lot of Leaf fans seem to have selective memory and only now that Dubas is gone do they argue how badly he managed those contracts. Because at the time you couldn't say a single negative thing about those contracts on here without a horde of Leaf fans swarming you with calls of hater and not knowing how the market works.

No - I believe you can win with that core - Dubas wasn't smart enough to figure out how to do it. Under Dubas, the core could not win. Treliving gets the benefit of the doubt, but assuming they all get raises - the core might need to be broken up.

What people feel to realize through Dubas' big words is his delusions. Dubas is as arrogant as they come, it's great if it works - but when it doesn't he still doesn't shift. Dubas overpaid the player as RFA's and then he traded all the Leafs draft picks every year so they had no cheap ELC's to fill in the gap. He would then sign 1-2M dollar players to fill in the holes - I don't think that's a winning strategy. There's a reason these players are signing 1-2M dollar contracts when they can sign with any team.

If he *instead* did not trade all our draft picks and filled the holes with ELC players making under what they're worth - you can probably win with that team. The core 4 weren't the reason for the Leafs exits - they led the team in scoring every playoffs. They dominated Tampa's core this year, the problem is you're expecting them to keep scoring even more with no secondary scoring as a result of Dubas' blunders. Every time the Leafs lose, it's well the core 4 needs to score more goals - even though they lead both teams in scoring. Under Dubas' strategy that's the case because they're surrounded by garbage. This was evidenced by how much of an impact Knies had when he entered, he was the first player that was making 1M due to ELC and not value and he was head and shoulders above the rest of the Leafs supporting cast. If you had more players like that the core 4 would be heralded as champions if they lead the team in scoring like they always do and won.


When people suggested to Dubas you can't build a team with 4 players making 40M+ of the cap, he responded "we can and we will". He will now argue I told you we can and we will. The issue is that's his arrogance speaking, the argument was never that it is impossible to ice a team with 4 players making 40M+, of course it's possible when the cap is over double that. The argument was you cannot ice a *Stanley Cup winning team* that way. However, he shifted the argument and probably belives to himself he did the impossible by icing a team. His lack of awareness is one of his main pitfalls as a GM.

 

[MessierII]

Brodie
Giordano
Muzzin
Bunting
Campbell
Samsonov
O’Reilly
Acciari
Spezza
Mikheyev
Barabanov
Schenn

All good players when they were gotten and many were acquired relatively cheaply. His main errors were not upgrading on Kerfoot and not finding another defenseman who can push offensively.

Good players in isolation but not necessarily the right players. His bottom 6 was consistently all not skilled enough to be top 6 types. His blue line is similar. Too much of the same everywhere. He’s a EA sports be a GM mode type of GM.

 

[Turin]

Good players in isolation but not necessarily the right players. His bottom 6 was consistently all not skilled enough to be top 6 types. His blue line is similar. Too much of the same everywhere. He’s a EA sports be a GM mode type of GM.

Toronto's bottom six is quite acceptable and good value, idk what you are talking about.

 

[MessierII]

Toronto's bottom six is quite acceptable and good value, idk what you are talking about.

Toronto has a terrible mix of skilled soft players all throughout their lineup. If they didn’t they would have had some semblance of success by now.

 

[Antropovsky]

The only remaining good parts of the leafs were the parts of other GMs
1) Matthews - Lou
2) Marner - Lou/Hunter
3) Nylander - Nonis
5) Reilly - Burke
4) Tavares - he and his wife wanted to move home
5) Brodie - he a his wife are from Ontario and she was diagnosed with MS. They chose Toronto to be home near family.


Casualties of Dubas: Kadri, Hyman, Mikheyev

He also royally messed up Marner/Matthews deals

Coach: Babcock replaced with Keefe

The rest of this roster is Dubas have your pick and enjoy, I cut out rentals:

Bunting
Jarnjkrok
Kerfoot
Kampf
Engvall
Aston Reese
Simmonds
Robertson
Knies
Holmberg

Liljegren
Mccabe
Holl
Giordano
Timmins

The parts of the roster he's responsible for all are easily replaceable. Bunting may be the only exception, but he's a 60 point player with 100 point players.