[Friedman] Pittsburgh hires Kyle Dubas as President of Hockey Operations

[ClydeLee]

I didn't say they were good moves. You seem to have missed the point. I said I am not sure many GMs would've been able to do much better.

Clearly you and anyone else with the benefit of hindsight could've done much better.

What Hindsight? The moves and decisions of the Leafs have been ripped by so many so clearly and loudly.

 

[57special]

It's much better.

One is signed through their prime and the other is signed through the end of their career. Not to mention the defensive side of Marner's game.

 

[notbias]

 

[Oddbob]

I'm a leafs fan till I die.



There have been many over the years. I think one of his first was finding Hyman for McKegg and then signing him to a steal 2.5 AAV deal. HIs first draft picks Liljegren and Sandin are coming along nicely and Sandin was even being called a top pairing dman after the trade by these main boards. He has lots of quality depth pieces coming up on ELC's who will be making their NHL debuts this year or establishing themselves as such. He found nice prospects like Knies, Niemela, Robertson, etc in 2nd and later rounds. Also not his fault that Amirov gets brain cancer a year after being drafted 15th OA (which was highway robbery as well in that trade).

He also lost a few firsts because he had to move Zaitsev monstrosity, got rid of Phaneuf for cheap, moved Marleau's last year of that contract, etc.

Overalll, I admit he made mistakes particularly early. But the GM at the end was polished and operating extremely intelligently. We trained a guy and then when he showed his potential fired him. Not even for performance reasons but for ego

Pretty much every GM has moves like this though. None of the stuff you mentioned is anything better than most GMs and the Marleau one was pricey to get rid of just one year. I don't think he is bad, I just think he is run of the mill.

 

[Voight]

What have most presidents done? What has Shanahan done to be POHO, be a good player?

FWIW he did work in the league office for a a few years beforehand.

OP - obviously his Toronto or bust comment wasn't for real. Theres only so many POHO/GM jobs in the league, youd be stupid not to take one if it was offered.

 

[Oddbob]

this isn't something that "I" determined, lol.

hf. never disappoint.

Detroit and Buffalo are both a lot closer.

 

[celtic man]

Dubas clearly wanted more power in Toronto.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Unsure of what she teaches but if this is some lame attempt at saying Pittsburgh is a “wonder” in the world of education, it’s a pretty awful attempt.

Pittsburgh has two ridiculously highly regarded educational colleges in the entirety of North America. And a couple others that are a couple hours drive that are up there as well.

You can attack the city for other things but I would take a seat if this truly was aimed at a diss at the educational system here.

CMU and…?

 

[danny90]

I think he wants a buffer that being a Gm .
Like Shanahan has .
He really can't make tough decisions.

I think the point was he wanted full control to be able to make tough decisions, which Toronto wasn’t giving him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Dubas teary-eyed: "I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else. It'll either be here (Toronto) or it'll be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here. You won't see me next week pop up elsewhere. "

Dubas 2 weeks later: "we are excited to call Pittsburgh our home."


I found it kind of surprising, then I remembered he used to be an agent. Lying is like breathing. lol

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wish him all of the same success he's had.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Great on Dubas.

However the saltiness is based on Dubas failing as GM of the Leafs - not him working for Pittsburgh. Any GM in the league could have the same results Dubas had with the Leafs. He took a first round exit team and... lost in the first round until he traded 2 1st round picks for a second round loss.

And honestly calling it a second round loss is overselling it a bit.

He took a team that had 3 playoff wins to a team the has 5 playoff wins.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

What has he done to earn president of hockey ops?

Ridiculous.

So will he be making the decisions or whoever the GM is. Assuming he isn't the gm.

He’s a slick talker.

Knows how to beschmooze the suits at FSG, and Shanny years ago as well. It took Shanahan a few good years to finally see through Kyle’s BS.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He's a top manager in the league if not the best.

Doobler’s playoff series record as manager:

1 Win - 5 Losses

 

[Artemi Panarin]

Sounds like he played this perfectly tbh. He has way more job security and is subject to less scrutiny than whatever GM he'll hire.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

Failing upward

 

[Divine]

He surrounded the core 4 with good pieces, the problem is with them not dubas imo, they just don’t have that next level of play that winners have in the playoffs

That's on Dubas.

Surrounding a team with the wrong players and/or continuing to play with players who can't win is on the GM.

The players are what they are, the GM's job is to construct a winning team.

You're blaming the players when the entire point of a GM is to evaluate players and create a winning team. If the players he choose are unable to win in the environment he constructed, it's on him.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He didn't fail people are just morons. They can't see that Dubas has the stuff to build dynasties.

Lol, oh he failed in spectacular, water bottle-hurling, tantrum-throwing fashion.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Failing upward

This.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's on Dubas.

Surrounding a team with the wrong players and/or continuing to play with players who can't win is on the GM.

The players are what they are, the GM's job is to construct a winning team.

You're blaming the players when the entire point of a GM is to evaluate players and create a winning team. If the players he choose are unable to win in the environment he constructed, it's on him.

The alternative is Dubas trades a couple of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares. I'm sure Leaf fans would be overjoyed if he'd dealt Matthews or Marner away.

It's kind of a no-win situation for a GM if his "core" are playoff chokers. He's either got to hope he can bring in some character to offset the core choking or he's got to trade a couple of pieces of that core and hope he gets the Tkachuk end of the trade rather than the Huberdeau end of any star-for-star deal.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Again, Niemela 3rd round pick, Woll 3rd, Holmberg 6th who plsyed 37 games for us this year. Rest is too early.

And in my other post I didn't mention Durzi was a 2nd either. He's legit at drafting

Lol, somehow dubas' is credited for all of the good picks but not the bad. Why is Woll a dubas' pick as a AGM while korshkov isn't?

At the end of the day, the amount of Dubas' drafted players as a GM that played in the playoffs this year was one.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The alternative is Dubas trades a couple of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares. I'm sure Leaf fans would be overjoyed if he'd dealt Matthews or Marner away.

It's kind of a no-win situation for a GM if his "core" are playoff chokers. He's either got to hope he can bring in some character to offset the core choking or he's got to trade a couple of pieces of that core and hope he gets the Tkachuk end of the trade rather than the Huberdeau end of any star-for-star deal.

The only thing I really fault Dubas for is signing Tavares; especially that contract. Toronto didn't need more offense, they needed defense and to a lesser extent goaltending, and it was incredibly obvious.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I think he also prefaced not popping up next week. To his word, it's been a few weeks.

He popped up at the Pens practice facility one week after he said that, to meet with Crosby and other staff.

 

[Divine]

The alternative is Dubas trades a couple of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares. I'm sure Leaf fans would be overjoyed if he'd dealt Matthews or Marner away.

It's kind of a no-win situation for a GM if his "core" are playoff chokers. He's either got to hope he can bring in some character to offset the core choking or he's got to trade a couple of pieces of that core and hope he gets the Tkachuk end of the trade rather than the Huberdeau end of any star-for-star deal.

Isn't this just an example of Dubas' failure to evaluate talent?

He bet this season on Matt Murray and Samsonov when the Leafs had no goaltending.

Also, most Leafs fans would happily trade anyone on the team for success. The team is bigger than individual players.

You're arguing the players are chokers while simultaneously arguing that he couldn't trade them. If you know the players are chokers - there is no consequence to trading them - because you're losing anyway.

People need to stop quoting the Tkachuk/Huberdeau trade as if Tkachuk did not force a trade and refuse to sign with Calgary - forcing them to go to arbitration to extend the time they had to trade him before he walked as a UFA.

Also, the Huberdeau trade could still work out for Calgary. The players didn't gel but you can't blame a GM for trying - that's literally their job.

Well, unless you're Dubas - Dubas sat on the core he inherited and made the team arguably worse since he got there.

Dubas inherits:

Matthews (ELC), Marner (ELC), Nylander (ELC), Kadri (4.5M), Rielly (5M) + Kapanen/Moore/Johnsson

And turned that into the highest paid core in the league and traded Kadri for Kerfoot while signing an 11M Tavares. He also decided to protect Justin Holl at the expansion draft over Jared McCann - the Leafs could have used another 40 goal scorer instead of a 7th d-man.

The decisions Dubas made literally capstrapped the team. He walked into a better spot than he's leaving, but people think he 'built the team'.

 

[DearDiary]

It's strange to see a team where their core players are the same age as their GM/President