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Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: Someone Get Gorton A Vesey Button.

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Gardner McKay said:
Is it possible that Hartnell has no desire to play in NY? Or do things that don't fit your agenda just get ignored?
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Yes, of course.
Let’s just throw that agenda term out there again.

If you can’t wrap your head around me not wanting to bottom out and tank, then choose to label that as an agenda, then by all means, knock yourself out.
Just because you choose to jump on the JG rah rah train doesn’t mean I have to as well.

That aside, that doesn’t mean I want to abort the rebuild either btw, even if I don’t like the guy running it with his ridiculous outside the box moves or lack thereof.

It simply means that I would like to see them bring in the right players to support what’s going on.
That’s not at the expense of a younger player that deserves a spot either.

I listed 3 different players as examples to make a point, of the type of player I’d rather them acquire over resigning McLeod but you just choose to focus on one.
Hell, I would just plug in Lettieri over McLeod and save the $650K.

BTW, when exactly has New York become an undesirable place to play?
If that’s the case, how long do we have to wait for Lundqvist and the other remaining vets on the team to submit their trade requests?

Now I’m seeing Carcillo being compared to Ovi.
Any statement that ridiculous would be considered an agenda because it defies common sense but let’s just ignore that and go for my post..
 
NYR said:
Yes, of course.
Let’s just throw that agenda term out there again.

If you can’t wrap your head around me not wanting to bottom out and tank, then choose to label that as an agenda, then by all means, knock yourself out.
Just because you choose to jump on the JG rah rah train doesn’t mean I have to as well.

That aside, that doesn’t mean I want to abort the rebuild either btw, even if I don’t like the guy running it with his ridiculous outside the box moves or lack thereof.

It simply means that I would like to see them bring in the right players to support what’s going on.
That’s not at the expense of a younger player that deserves a spot either.

I listed 3 different players as examples to make a point, of the type of player I’d rather them acquire over resigning McLeod but you just choose to focus on one.
Hell, I would just plug in Lettieri over McLeod and save the $650K.

BTW, when exactly has New York become an undesirable place to play?
If that’s the case, how long do we have to wait for Lundqvist and the other remaining vets on the team to submit their trade requests?

Now I’m seeing Carcillo being compared to Ovi.
Any statement that ridiculous would be considered an agenda because it defies common sense but let’s just ignore that and go for my post..
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Hokay.

Where did all of this come from when my point was, how do you know Hartnell wants to play in NY and why do you just discount the fact that he may have no desire to?

I am a die hard NY Rangers fan and if I had the opportunity to play in the NHL, the Rangers wouldn't even be in my top 5. They would barely crack the top 10. Not every one wants to go to NY.
 
silverfish said:
There were some scalding takes. I have very selective and biased memories, though.
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Yes, the Neal comps were there. I do remember them. I think those were more his D+1 year. Even then a lot of people thought it was a terrible pick. The D+2 year solidified it, even if his tear over the last two months put him back at respectable totals.
 
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Always saw Gropp as a support guy, albeit a potentially good one if the pieces all lined up.

As I said in the prospect poll, he has quite a bit of work to do. But he did post the second highest goals rate for the team, as a rookie, and scored at approximately a 24 goal pace after a horrendous 16 game start to the season.
 
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I rather bottom out and tank. Like Pittsburgh did for super Mario back in the 80’s. I’ve watch to many mediocre seasons.
Hughes would look great in Ranger blue!
 
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nyr2k2 said:
Yes, the Neal comps were there. I do remember them. I think those were more his D+1 year. Even then a lot of people thought it was a terrible pick. The D+2 year solidified it, even if his tear over the last two months put him back at respectable totals.
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Yeah, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a biased hater. Hope he proves me wrong.
 
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A bit late to the party but I’m confused at the definitive claims that the Rangers do not have an elite talent in the system. Who / when gets this “elite” status? I mean every draft the top2-3 OA picks get assigned it pretty automatically and get to keep it unless they prove otherwise - which happens quite often. The rest of prospects have to work to earn it as they develop by passing certain milestones on the way all the way until they exceed realistic expectations from them or even their ceilings. The Rangers just drafted 5 first rounders in the last two years. Maybe we should wait with claims that there are no candidates for elite within the organization, at least for a bit? I mean Chytil’ performance last season would’ve earned him a 3OA this year if he were less than two weeks younger and a few here would’ve claim that Montreal just drafted an elite center.
 
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Cag29 said:
I rather bottom out and tank. Like Pittsburgh did for super Mario back in the 80’s. I’ve watch to many mediocre seasons.
Hughes would look great in Ranger blue!
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Only five 1OA drafted in the last 20 years. won the SC. Ovechkin (a truly generational talent) had to wait 14 years.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
Hokay.

Where did all of this come from when my point was, how do you know Hartnell wants to play in NY and why do you just discount the fact that he may have no desire to?

I am a die hard NY Rangers fan and if I had the opportunity to play in the NHL, the Rangers wouldn't even be in my top 5. They would barely crack the top 10. Not every one wants to go to NY.
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Based on location only and not the cyclical nature of team quality, where you would rather play than MSG and get to talk to Al Trautwig on a regular basis?
 
NYR said:
Now I’m seeing Carcillo being compared to Ovi.
Any statement that ridiculous would be considered an agenda because it defies common sense but let’s just ignore that and go for my post..
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I mean, you compared Ian Cole to Shattenkirk which is fairly in the ballpark of a ridiculous statement and comparison

e: regarding Gropp, I remember James Neal comparisons but just in potential playing style, not in actual production. It's fair to compare playing styles I think, but the assumption that a comparison means "prospect will be as good as this NHLer I'm using as a comparison" is probably a leap too far. If Gropp was going to make it as a pro, it was going to be because he found a way to find open space and use his shot, not as a puck carrying flashy forward or something. Some people felt Neal was a guy who was very good at that and said Gropp would play a similar game if he made it to the NHL, not that he would be as good as Neal
 
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NYR said:
Now I’m seeing Carcillo being compared to Ovi.
Any statement that ridiculous would be considered an agenda because it defies common sense but let’s just ignore that and go for my post..
Click to expand...

Well, only because you bring up Ian Cole having more rings than Kevin Shattenkirk to suggest he's better or something... You do realize that it's that type of bullshit that people are calling out, right?

Knowing you, you'll probably say I got it wrong and the Cole - Shattenkirk post was about something completely different, or ignore this post. Either way, most people will have read it that way and that's why they respond accordingly. Because your reasoning is flawed and/or your "hot takes" are so crazy, people call you out on it.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
I don't know. You may be right but I wouldn't be completely shocked if it didn't dip. Improving defensively doesn't necessarily have to come at the sacrifice of offense. I think we are just all so traumatized from how AV did things that we just default to these beliefs.

Rather than forcing Buchnevich into a defensive role on a defensive line (like AV did), I think Quinn lets Buch go absolutely haywire on offense. Let him play to his strengths. Then, you begin to reinforce the little things that currently aren't being done. A kid that can't do the things he knows well isn't going to improve upon the things he does not know well. I would guess we see some high scoring, defensively awful and creatively fantastic hockey in the first few months. Quinn will let his players do what they know best while he assesses the team.
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This is true, but I’m also trying to factor in a new coach effect and the lack of overall depth we have right now. We’re replacing NHL forwards with prospects with a sum of NHL games below 20 games total. I’m not too concerned about our established guys. It’s the rest of the team I’m worried about, and that’s where I think we’ll see the main issue.

You also just inspired me to look at scoring effects the year after a coaching change to see if my hypothesis even holds water. Remind me later if I don’t follow up tonight
 
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Mac n Gs said:
This is true, but I’m also trying to factor in a new coach effect and the lack of overall depth we have right now. We’re replacing NHL forwards with prospects with a sum of NHL games below 20 games total. I’m not too concerned about our established guys. It’s the rest of the team I’m worried about, and that’s where I think we’ll see the main issue.

You also just inspired me to look at scoring effects the year after a coaching change to see if my hypothesis even holds water. Remind me later if I don’t follow up tonight
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Sure. I am quite curious now.

You are right, we are replacing NHL forwards with prospects. The only reason I am not TOO concerned is who we are replacing. Nash - He is done. He is contemplating retirement. I couldn't see him putting up more than 15 - 20 - 35 this year at the max. Grabner - he was a product of the system. His lack of production in NJ combined with his spotty history proves just that.

I think either way, even if we had Nash and Grabs, our scoring would be down. I think the fact that Buch will be unleashed + maybe one of our rookies takes a big step, we could make up for the production.

This is what I am hoping for. If it doesn't happen and our scoring does take a nose dive, I wouldn't be shocked. But if you asked me to make a bet on if it was going to be even/higher than last year or lower than last year, I would place my money on even/higher.
 
Trxjw said:
Meh. I still maintain that Gropp has similar tools to Neal, sans the bite in his game. As always it's the toolbox that makes the difference.
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For sure. I've been saying this in the prospect polls the past few rounds. Size (which he doesn't really utilize as well as he should), wheels, awesome shot. If he could speed up the mental part of his game a notch, and do a better job anticipating the play to find space, he could be a very nice complementary winger. However, those two things he needs to improve are very difficult to do. Some of it will come with pro experience, but whether he speeds it up enough is what I think will determine whether he's a decent AHL guy or an actual NHL contributor.
 
Blue Blooded said:
Elite talent, schmelite talent. It is good to have but hardly a requirement. You need players that outperform their cap hit (which elite players are generally great at), a team that does not wilt under pressure, a team that stays relatively healthy and the right bounces.

The 2012-13 Rangers is in my opinion the best Ranger team since 94 and one of the very best cap era teams, but they were decimated by injuries. When healthy they could trot out THREE lines that would put up a +67 5v5 xGF% (Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan, Clowe-Brassard-Nash, Pyatt-Richards-Zuccarello), a fantastic defence when healthy (McDonagh-Girardi, Staal-Strålman, Del Zotto-Eminger) and prime Hank. But Clowe and the entire D got hurt and then Torts and Richards imploded and that was that.
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But thats where you miss the point. It kind of is a requirement. In the last 10 seasons, 9 winners had elite talent.
 
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