Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part V: Gorton is on McLeod Nine.

[Inferno]

He picked up a tough guy on the waiver wire, waited 2 weeks into free agency after better options were exhausted, and then signed him to a 1 year deal for an easily variable amount. Labeling this as gorton viewing McLeod as valuable is an exaggeration. It screams settling.

He gave up zero assets, tried to replace him and gave a miniscual contract.

And people care very much about the signing. They flipped out and there are now 7 pages dedicated to a guy that will wear suits to games.

Again...it's more about what it says about the front office. If he plays regularly..that's on the coach.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Great stuff AK27, and Montoya was also a high pick (but maybe you counted him as a part of the Cloutier era).

You are right about Shestyorkin. I like him, but don't see him as an A-tier goalie prospect. He is very good, but he is behind the top prospects we have seen come into the NHL the last years. Some will say, what more can you ask for him? Its as simple as this for me, I've seen him since before his WJC days until today. He is often very good, I think his upbringing in St. P has been great for him, but when tested hard he hasn't been consistently great.

With that said, it doesn't affect his potential one bit, goalies don't work like that, its about how good he is now, Lias can't become McDavid II, nobody can, many young goalies can become the best in the league.

If you hooked me up to a lie detector test and asked me if I would take Shesty over X, Y and Z of the top goalie prospects that I've seen outside the NHL the last handful of years I would often consider him but end up betting on other guys, hence I think its fair to label him as a B-tier type.

I would definitely not count him out from being able to come to NY and take the starting job and become a great goalie for us. But as of now that is something we should hope for, not something we can count on.

I don't think there's enough of a sample size to judge this. I think trying to draw this conclusion is extreme over-analyzation. We are talking about a sample size of maybe 5-10 games in his career. And in none of those games was he actually bad. Some he was very good. Its like if people blamed Hank for not standing on his head during the SCF. Thats what you are doing.

And some of these other goalies you can say the same thing about. I presume you are talking about Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Saros among younger goalies. Maybe Murray, although I think we saw this season that he actually sucks and was just carried to his previous success by two generational players. Vasilevskiy has struggled before in big games, Gibson's playoffs SV% is over 10 points lower than his regular season, and while Saros is very good, he's completely untested as a #1. Do I think Shestyorkin is better than all those guys? No, but I think the argument you are making shows that pretty much no young goalie has a perfect resume. Vasilevskiy is looking generational at his position, yet there are even things you could criticize about him.

And the other prospect goalies have the same things you could point out. Sorokin was outright bad in relief during the WJC final against Canada that Shestyorkin was pulled from for his teammates playing like zombies. His play the last two years has been pretty average. He's been criticized by the Russian National Team goalie coach for failing to develop further. Samsonov lost a key WJC game for Russia against the USA. Demko had a terrible AHL season two seasons ago. Hart lost a key WJC for Canada against USA, and is completely unproven outside of junior hockey. I don't think these are all even valid criticisms that I'd level as anything important, but I think it shows that what you are saying is silly.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Hey, I'm just glad the main Rangers beat writer is making 100% the correct point about the McLeod signing.

I also think his point about AV in that Nashville game last year is probably correct. AV put McLeod on directly after Staal got cheapshotted right our against Emelin and McLeod did nothing. Then Vesey gets cheapshotted with McLeod on the ice with him. I get he's not gonna go after Forsberg but come on, dude did nothing. If this is his one role on the team, he should've lost his chance at getting re-signed right then and there.

McLeod clearly loved his former buddies better. Stupid signing.

 

[Ola]

I don't think there's enough of a sample size to judge this. I think trying to draw this conclusion is extreme over-analyzation. We are talking about a sample size of maybe 5-10 games in his career. And in none of those games was he actually bad. Some he was very good. Its like if people blamed Hank for not standing on his head during the SCF. Thats what you are doing.

And some of these other goalies you can say the same thing about. I presume you are talking about Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Saros among younger goalies. Maybe Murray, although I think we saw this season that he actually sucks and was just carried to his previous success by two generational players. Vasilevskiy has struggled before in big games, Gibson's playoffs SV% is over 10 points lower than his regular season, and while Saros is very good, he's completely untested as a #1. Do I think Shestyorkin is better than all those guys? No, but I think the argument you are making shows that pretty much no young goalie has a perfect resume. Vasilevskiy is looking generational at his position, yet there are even things you could criticize about him.

And the other prospect goalies have the same things you could point out. Sorokin was outright bad in relief during the WJC final against Canada that Shestyorkin was pulled from for his teammates playing like zombies. His play the last two years has been pretty average. He's been criticized by the Russian National Team goalie coach for failing to develop further. Samsonov lost a key WJC game for Russia against the USA. Demko had a terrible AHL season two seasons ago. Hart lost a key WJC for Canada against USA, and is completely unproven outside of junior hockey. I don't think these are all even valid criticisms that I'd level as anything important, but I think it shows that what you are saying is silly.

How much sample size do you need? I don't care about objective facts that can be used at the main board to brag. I pay focus to what I've seen.

I have seen the top young goalies the last 2.5 decades and I've two times seen top NHL peak goalies in Europe. There is a big difference between an average back-up in the NHL and the average top 10-20 starter in Europe. The NHL caliber back-up track the puck so much better, can be so much more aggressive and confident.

Lundqvist in Europe was easily spotted as a future top NHL goalie. I think they have deleted the history at this board for some reason, but I remember posting that Hank behind a good season could be a Vezina candidate his rookie year.

People can point at stats all they want, I just don't see a goalie that is quite as assertive as a top guy outside the NHL can be. There is also a reason for why he is stood up in KHL POs and for long stretches in the WCHs or OGs etc, he isn't clearly the top guy.

I think Shestyorkin is a good young goalie prospect, I love how calm and collective he is, how economic he is in his movement, and also his skill level and ability to move out of his comfort zone to make the necessary move to stop the puck. I definitely think its fair to mention him in talks about our top 10 prospects. Top 5 maybe. But he clearly isn't on par with a top guy outside the NHL, yet at least. Next year will be big for him.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It's not the Mccleod signing that is worrying, no one on these boards gives a **** about the signing. Rather it is the fact that our management still thinks that the 4th line goon is ''valuable'' that is concerning. Other than old man Lou, every other GM has rightfully moved on from this outdated philosophy. We need young, progressive thinkers running our franchise like Dubas not old dinosaurs like Gordon and Sather whining about toughness and ''character''. I have no faith in a General Manager who still thinks 4th line goons are valuable in this league.

That is CLEARLY false...

You in particular care about this or else you wouldn't still be bitching about it.

 

[Ola]

That is CLEARLY false...

You in particular care about this or else you wouldn't still be *****ing about it.

So many lost it due to that signing. Oh iiiii they are clearly not caring about Fenwahl. Bammy is all over the world wide web destroying this signing with advanced graphs. Iiiii oooooohhhh.

For christ sake, its a depth move. We play NJ two times, NYI two times and Philly two times -- this preseason -- if nothing else the 70k is worth it to have McLeod around for a few of those games.

 

[Irishguy42]

So many lost it due to that signing. Oh iiiii they are clearly not caring about Fenwahl. Bammy is all over the world wide web destroying this signing with advanced graphs. Iiiii oooooohhhh.

For christ sake, its a depth move. We play NJ two times, NYI two times and Philly two times -- this preseason -- if nothing else the 70k is worth it to have McLeod around for a few of those games.

If you're signing a player just because you want to "set the tone" or something akin to that in PRESEASON, you should be fired.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How much sample size do you need? I don't care about objective facts that can be used at the main board to brag. I pay focus to what I've seen.

I have seen the top young goalies the last 2.5 decades and I've two times seen top NHL peak goalies in Europe. There is a big difference between an average back-up in the NHL and the average top 10-20 starter in Europe. The NHL caliber back-up track the puck so much better, can be so much more aggressive and confident.

Lundqvist in Europe was easily spotted as a future top NHL goalie. I think they have deleted the history at this board for some reason, but I remember posting that Hank behind a good season could be a Vezina candidate his rookie year.

People can point at stats all they want, I just don't see a goalie that is quite as assertive as a top guy outside the NHL can be. There is also a reason for why he is stood up in KHL POs and for long stretches in the WCHs or OGs etc, he isn't clearly the top guy.

I think Shestyorkin is a good young goalie prospect, I love how calm and collective he is, how economic he is in his movement, and also his skill level and ability to move out of his comfort zone to make the necessary move to stop the puck. I definitely think its fair to mention him in talks about our top 10 prospects. Top 5 maybe. But he clearly isn't on par with a top guy outside the NHL, yet at least. Next year will be big for him.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, so I won't argue further about that, but there is one thing I should correct you about.

You are wrong about why he doesn't start big games for his team. This has been cleared up recently by the goalie coach for SKA and Russia in an interview. He didn't start big games with his club team because Koskinen had the 1st goalkeeper contract. The goalie coach said he thinks if the level of play is relatively close between the keepers, the guy who is being paid the bigger contract should be given the right to "earn" his contract. And he was scheduled to start at the Olympics, but got injured in the months leading up to the tournament and that changed the plans of the Russian National Team. They weren't going to count on someone who may or may not return in time, may or may not be on form. He was the "starter" at the World Championships, so you are wrong about that, and I think that actually proves what the keeper coach was saying. Without clear obstacles in his way like injury or contracts, he's the starter.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

It's not the Mccleod signing that is worrying, no one on these boards gives a **** about the signing.

Are you kidding me?

People on these boards are rioting over the McLeod signing!!

Even @Thirty One was there rioting on his wheelchair.

I’d be scurred if I were JG.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Think people should get infractions if they bring up Mccleod starting a midnight tonight.

 

[Inferno]

Any word on the rfas?

 

[Good Intentions]

Probably.

It’s probably crazy to think Gilmour could use his speed on the flank as a winger? Really? Why so crazy? Less effective than Desharnais? If anything, perhaps it’s crazier to force him as a defenseman.

At very least, why not try to utilize him as a PK forward. (As one poster already suggested).

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What’s the recent history of significant trades going on this late in the offseason? Anything of note?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

What’s the recent history of significant trades going on this late in the offseason? Anything of note?

Nash trade happened 7/23

 

[BBKers]

Bigras/Giomour?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Nash trade happened 7/23

Zibanejad trade was 7/18

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I am going to send death threats to msg about a week before the draft. We should all do this!

Good luck purchasing your next airline ticket....

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Nash trade happened 7/23

Zibanejad trade was 7/18

True, True

 

[JT Kreider]

The Danault contract is good news for Hayes. If he got $3 mill then Hayes should easily push close to 5

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers and Columbus worked on the Nash trade for 5-6 months. They could have made the same deadline at the 2012 deadline.

The Rangers and Ottawa discussed the Brassard for Zibanejad deal when Dorion was named GM replacing Murray. Gorton called Dorion to congratulate him. They discussed that trade at that time. At the draft,Gorton and Dorion discussed it again. They agreed to wait until after July 15. Brass had a $2M bonus due. Ottawa paid the $3M salary for 16-17. The Rangers paid it and the trade was made.

After the draft was over,Gorton was asked by Brooks if there were any discussions at the draft which could result in something happening later. Brooks brought up the Brassard trade as an example. Gorton said it was possible. Gorton has made a big trade in each of the last two summers. Does he make one big trade this summer? Hayes? His arbitration hearing is on August 2.

The Rangers need Pacioretty and Skinner to move this summer and for both of them to sign extensions with their new teams. Pacioretty was nearly dealt to LA with a 5 year/$30M extension. Pacioretty didn't like the contract offer and changed agents. Skinner used his NMC to reject a trade or two. Both of them moving frees up Zuccarello to be a prime rental in February 2019.

 

[egelband]

If Quinn wants us to become grittier Gorton must make bigger moves than shopping for UFA 4th lineers.

To play a gritty style you just have these guys in your top 6-9. And they must be younger when you get them. Andrew Shaw did a great job for Chicago, but he only had the energy for it for a handful of years. Nolan for LA. These guys never repeat. Philly got Simmonds at the right age. Wilson in Washington. If anyone would get Wilson in 2-3 years he would be worthless.

And like, when these guys are moved it’s — NEVER — as finished products. Often it’s second chance guys, or kids finally coming through. We will never be able to trade for a really gritty good young top 6 forward, Gorton must find someone on the way up. Find someone that can come through in a new environment.

There are not a ton of potential guys for these roles out there. But you have a few, I’ve mentioned the Lemieux kid in Winnipeg before. You have Jake Virtanen in Vancouver. Curtis Lazar in Calgary.

I think that it’s a mistake that we have tried to roll the dice on a kid like that in a really really long time. Think they could bring a lot of energy to be honest, thrive in NY. If they start to just do OK fans would love them. Todd Harvey II...

I was hoping the Rangers would sign Jordan Nolan. But, oh well.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

While I'm all for the grittiness, you have to stop and ask yourselves just where these guys are going to play? Right now, you have probably 8 spots assured (that's provided there are no trades): Zib, CK, Buch, Zucc, Hayes, Vesey, Fast, Names. Then you have McLeod, Holland and Belesky on roster.

Let's forget M, H & B for the moment: if the plan is to try some of the kids, where are they going to play all these "gritty" players everyone wants to sign?

I think the plan all along is to see which the of eight can make the change as well as give some kids some evaluation time.

 

[egelband]

McLeod probably will be playing in the AHL anyhow. We won’t see much of him. I’d expect. He’s getting a nice salary to help teach the youngsters about the NHL. Is my suspicion.

 

[apoptygma]

So what do we think abouit Kreiders next contract?
He got 2 more years at $4,625,000. He will be 29 when he starts his next contract. Looking at the Evander Kane contract
as compareable, will you guys be comfortable with 7x7 for Kreider?
It will take him to he is 36 year old, and surely have some sort of NTC on most of the years.
If not he will be very valuable on the market. When do we incase trade him?

 

[Deleted member 23124]

So what do we think abouit Kreiders next contract?
He got 2 more years at $4,625,000. He will be 29 when he starts his next contract. Looking at the Evander Kane contract
as compareable, will you guys be comfortable with 7x7 for Kreider?
It will take him to he is 36 year old, and surely have some sort of NTC on most of the years.
If not he will be very valuable on the market. When do we incase trade him?

This will be Kreider's year to show he can be what they thought they were getting....If he doesn't dial it up a notch, I see him gone after next season (unless he's gone by the deadline -- but I think they give him a full season).