Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Dionysus]

before the biggest problem we had was leadership, so that's what they tried to address.

turns out you actually have to change the established leadership to instill changes, and not just bring in vets as leaders.

Yep. They added leadership. Unfortunately the main guys are just not good enough. And the cap is too constrained to add much skill. Next step will be restructuring. Some bigger contracts will have to move out.

 

[Sting]

before the biggest problem we had was leadership, so that's what they tried to address.

turns out you actually have to change the established leadership to instill changes, and not just bring in vets as leaders.

Leadership has never been the biggest problem, though. I think maybe that's where the management group went wrong. Everyone is under the assumption that because we have a ton of young guys locked up to long-term, high cap hit deals, that they're all star players. There's a good argument to be made that only Stu is worth his cap hit, and while Sanderson will get there, he has struggled of late.

The core isn't good enough. Simple as that. Deal with "character" after you're a good team. The clubs that prioritize elite talent always end up on top.

 

[PlayOn]

Leadership has never been the biggest problem, though. I think maybe that's where the management group went wrong. Everyone is under the assumption that because we have a ton of young guys locked up to long-term, high cap hit deals, that they're all star players. There's a good argument to be made that only Stu is worth his cap hit, and while Sanderson will get there, he has struggled of late.

The core isn't good enough. Simple as that. Deal with "character" after you're a good team. The clubs that prioritize elite talent always end up on top.

Jacques said over and over again last year the team needed to mature and learn how to be pros. Staios spoke often about the emotional swings. So they just have seen things in the room that gave them pause, which is to be expected given how this org was run.

It’s part of Staios’ “process” imo. Step 1: hire his coach, get a proper goalie to provide consistency, gets vets in the room that help them manage the day to day. He said several times they were relying on the internal growth of the core. When this season is over, if we’re not in a playoff spot, he will conclude the core needs to be changed to some degree. And that’s basically step 2.

I think it’s less where he went wrong and more that he felt the first try was to attempt to salvage things - there wasn’t really much harm in trying.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Kind of crazy was a disaster staios offseason was.

Perron okay off ice issues but like…. Contributed zero.

Amadio. Bruuutal

Gregor. Haven’t noticed him since the first two games what happened to that guy.

Ullmark. Awful.

Jensen good but now has found himself on pairing 3???

Cousins…. That’s gotta be one of the worst FA signing in a decade. Horrible horrible player

But you knew this was going to happen. Guy probably said AH we have so much offensive skill. What we need is the exact opposite.

And he just completely botched it

Why did anyone expect better though?

What was the process to hire the POHO? Literally nothing. Staios' relationship with Andlauer was more than enough to be the guy that oversees all hockey operations.
What was the process to hire the GM? Literally nothing. Didn't interview or consider anyone except himself.
What was the process to hire the coach? The guy with literally 0 management experience at the NHL level who has never been involved in a coaching search/hiring at the NHL level was the one leading the process.

This guy was a special advisor/assistant for, like, a year. It's pretty much the first step on the management ladder on your way to becoming a GM. Jason Spezza was in the same position for the Leafs last year and he's just the AGM in Pittsburgh now, not GM and POHO. Drury started off as Dir. of Player Development before years of AGM before he got the GM + POHO combo.

The former-player-to-GM path is kinda well-established. I don't know why we thought we were gonna outsmart everyone and be the outlier in the equation. At the very least, if they wanted to make him POHO, go out and get an experienced GM. Or make him the GM and get an experienced POHO. Have at least one person with substantial experience at the NHL level sitting in on the coaching hire, the free agency work, the professional scouting, etc.

What we're getting is exactly in-line with someone who's learning the ropes of 2 separate, highly-demanding executive positions, on the fly.

 

[BigRig4]

Why did anyone expect better though?

What was the process to hire the POHO? Literally nothing. Staios' relationship with Andlauer was more than enough to be the guy that oversees all hockey operations.
What was the process to hire the GM? Literally nothing. Didn't interview or consider anyone except himself.
What was the process to hire the coach? The guy with literally 0 management experience at the NHL level who has never been involved in a coaching search/hiring at the NHL level was the one leading the process.

This guy was a special advisor/assistant for, like, a year. It's pretty much the first step on the management ladder on your way to becoming a GM. Jason Spezza was in the same position for the Leafs last year and he's just the AGM in Pittsburgh now, not GM and POHO. Drury started off as Dir. of Player Development before years of AGM before he got the GM + POHO combo.

The former-player-to-GM path is kinda well-established. I don't know why we thought we were gonna outsmart everyone and be the outlier in the equation. At the very least, if they wanted to make him POHO, go out and get an experienced GM. Or make him the GM and get an experienced POHO. Have at least one person with substantial experience at the NHL level sitting in on the coaching hire, the free agency work, the professional scouting, etc.

What we're getting is exactly in-line with someone who's learning the ropes of 2 separate, highly-demanding executive positions, on the fly.

I wonder if there's a timeline where Staois gets a bigger role in Edmonton and doesn't leave, and we just go with Jacques as GM.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Leadership has never been the biggest problem, though. I think maybe that's where the management group went wrong. Everyone is under the assumption that because we have a ton of young guys locked up to long-term, high cap hit deals, that they're all star players. There's a good argument to be made that only Stu is worth his cap hit, and while Sanderson will get there, he has struggled of late.

The core isn't good enough. Simple as that. Deal with "character" after you're a good team. The clubs that prioritize elite talent always end up on top.

the thing is though we have had less talented teams be wildly more successful. there are less talented teams in the league now that have more success and play much better.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I wonder if there's a timeline where Staois gets a bigger role in Edmonton and doesn't leave, and we just go with Jacques as GM.

Gotta ask why he didn’t get a bigger role?
Also went further than ever without him

the thing is though we have had less talented teams be wildly more successful. there are less talented teams in the league now that have more success and play much better.

Disagree. More success yeah.

Play much better? Do you know how many shit teams there are and how many teams leave their goalies out to dry? And how many other teams really don’t creat much lol

 

[Big Muddy]

Ottawa isn't taking that Palat contract. We don't have the cap flexibility to do it. It's a bad contract. The only way Palat is included is if it is a bigger trade with Norris going as well, and the idea is that Palat is a proxy for retaining on Norris.

I assume the team is still going to try and make the playoffs if they trade Brady. It will be more of a retool type move. Like how we got Jensen back for Chychrun instead of picks+prospects.

That Tkachuk trade proposal doesn’t look great for the Senators either.

I’d expect Staois to be better than some of these proposals on here. Sure hope so.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I have no idea why people were seemingly expecting so much more from the Amadio signing. He put up an average of 25 points a season on a much better team, with one good playoff run. I never saw him as any more than a decent 4th liner. Same with Cousins.

Over the last 3 seasons he scored at an above 18 goals, so almost 20 goals, per 82 game pace. That was almost double Joseph's (11+) in the same period. He did it on a better team, but I certainly expected to see some of that. Thought it indicated he was able to put the puck in on his own even if his point totals weren't high.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

That Tkachuk trade proposal doesn’t look great for the Senators either.

I’d expect Staois to be better than some of these proposals on here. Sure hope so.

I try to expect the worst and hope for the best with trade proposals.

Most people here would say Jack Hughes for Brady Tkachuk would be a fair 1 for 1 type swap. That obviously isn't happening, and the team trading the player is usually dealing from a position of weakness.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Man Branny 3 goals this year. Not far off the entire sens D corps loll

 

[Alex1234]

Man Branny 3 goals this year. Not far off the entire sens D corps loll

This D core has Zero offensive instinct

 

[Big Muddy]

I try to expect the worst and hope for the best with trade proposals.

Most people here would say Jack Hughes for Brady Tkachuk would be a fair 1 for 1 type swap. That obviously isn't happening, and the team trading the player is usually dealing from a position of weakness.

Yes, in another thread I posted that there will be a bunch of trade proposals that the other team wouldn’t do. That’s another category. The return for Jiricek was interesting.

 

[Big Muddy]

This D core has Zero offensive instinct

Not easy to get good offensive & defensive defenders on the 3rd line for minimal money though. The salary cap has some bearing on what’s realistic for teams. Not sure if you saw JBDs advanced stat numbers for the last game? Take a look in the Ott-Kings game thread. I’m playing devils advocate to some degree here just now though.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why did anyone expect better though?

What was the process to hire the POHO? Literally nothing. Staios' relationship with Andlauer was more than enough to be the guy that oversees all hockey operations.
What was the process to hire the GM? Literally nothing. Didn't interview or consider anyone except himself.
What was the process to hire the coach? The guy with literally 0 management experience at the NHL level who has never been involved in a coaching search/hiring at the NHL level was the one leading the process.

This guy was a special advisor/assistant for, like, a year. It's pretty much the first step on the management ladder on your way to becoming a GM. Jason Spezza was in the same position for the Leafs last year and he's just the AGM in Pittsburgh now, not GM and POHO. Drury started off as Dir. of Player Development before years of AGM before he got the GM + POHO combo.

The former-player-to-GM path is kinda well-established. I don't know why we thought we were gonna outsmart everyone and be the outlier in the equation. At the very least, if they wanted to make him POHO, go out and get an experienced GM. Or make him the GM and get an experienced POHO. Have at least one person with substantial experience at the NHL level sitting in on the coaching hire, the free agency work, the professional scouting, etc.

What we're getting is exactly in-line with someone who's learning the ropes of 2 separate, highly-demanding executive positions, on the fly.

It was nepotism through and through. I was able to handle Staios being hired as either the President or GM, but not both.

Needed someone with experience and a track record of performing well in the role after so many years of seeing the damage an inexperienced GM like Dorion could do to a franchise.

Had to laugh at the people who thought adding Dave Poulin from the TSN studio was enough

 

[Sensators]

I would take laf+Schneider for tkachuk easily. I highly highly doubt the Rangers would consider that. Schneider is a considerable asset.

I wish we had our first for the next 2 years so we could have more hope.

 

[Stylizer1]

I would take laf+Schneider for tkachuk easily. I highly highly doubt the Rangers would consider that. Schneider is a considerable asset.

I wish we had our first for the next 2 years so we could have more hope.

Alexis Lafreniere is in a way better situation than he would be in Ottawa. To think he would out preform what he is doing there is very questionable.

The problem we have is we don't have coaching who are making each player better which makes the team better. This is what we all thought we would get with a new GM and coach. Instead we get a rookie and a former Leaf pylon.

We all wanted legit management and got the same old same old.

 

[Alex1234]

Not easy to get good offensive & defensive defenders on the 3rd line for minimal money though. The salary cap has some bearing on what’s realistic for teams. Not sure if you saw JBDs advanced stat numbers for the last game? Take a look in the Ott-Kings game thread. I’m playing devils advocate to some degree here just now though.

Nothing against you but they have 3 goals in around 2577 mins played ... 2577...
Couldn't care less about advanced stats honestly
In the past 3 years we have won, in the category of advanced stats, 3 world championships, 5 world cups, 4 gold medals, 7 silver and 2 bronze but zero Playoff games...


ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES despite all our accolades in the advanced stats department

 

[Dionysus]

Man Branny 3 goals this year. Not far off the entire sens D corps loll

Chychrun with 8 as well.

 

[Big Muddy]

Nothing against you but they have 3 goals in around 2577 mins played ... 2577...
Couldn't care less about advanced stats honestly
In the past 3 years we have won, in the category of advanced stats, 3 world championships, 5 world cups, 4 gold medals, 7 silver and 2 bronze but zero Playoff games...


ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES despite all our accolades in the advanced stats department

All we need to then is get some good 3rd pair defenders that can score at a good clip and that are also stout & strong defensively for let’s say around $3 m for the pair. It should be easy, right?

I’m well aware of our lack of success (so the last 2 sentences were pointless fluff), but that doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the points I was making. You seem to have completely glossed over the last sentence which was: "I’m playing devils advocate to some degree here just now though."

I’d think we’d all like a better 3rd pair, but not sure that would be the tonic that would cure the various illnesses that plague the Senators. You also seem to be unaware of how many times I have pointed out that the Stanley and playoff seeds are not based on advanced stats yet you post here a lot.

 

[Alex1234]

All we need to then is get some good 3rd pair defenders that can score at a good clip and that are also stout & strong defensively for let’s say around $3 m for the pair. It should be easy, right?

I’m well aware of our lack of success (so the last 2 sentences were pointless fluff), but that doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the points I was making. You seem to have completely glossed over the last sentence which was: "I’m playing devils advocate to some degree here just now though."

I’d think we’d all like a better 3rd pair, but not sure that would be the tonic that would cure the various illnesses that plague the Senators. You also seem to be unaware of how many times I have pointed out that the Stanley and playoff seeds are not based on advanced stats yet you post here a lot.

Im not attacking you in any way
Wasn't intended if misinterpreted

I just find crazy the WHOLE D not just the 3rd pairing has only 3 goals

 

[Burrowsaurus]

People that watched ALOT of Nashville said he was a 6-7 and more of the same of what we have in the bottom pair.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

It was nepotism through and through. I was able to handle Staios being hired as either the President or GM, but not both.

Needed someone with experience and a track record of performing well in the role after so many years of seeing the damage an inexperienced GM like Dorion could do to a franchise.

Had to laugh at the people who thought adding Dave Poulin from the TSN studio was enough

Titles don't matter in the NHL. What matters is who is actually in control. Usually control and responsibility is delegated completely differently from team to team, regardless of whether their executives have the same title. One GM might be running the show, while another GM might be a sounding board for the POHO who makes the real choices.

I think the reason that he was brought in as POHO was because Dorion was already GM and they took over the team at the worst possible time near the end of the offseason. Whether they had more nefarious reasons for keeping Dorion, like they wanted to use him as a scapegoat if/when his build failed, or they valued him, or they simply weren't ready from a day-to-day perspective to replace the management team, who knows.

I guess what I am getting at is that he probably does the same job regardless of what he is called. So being called both POHO and GM doesn't matter. He could be called the Emperor of Kanata and his role is still the same.

 

[Big Muddy]

Im not attacking you in any way
Wasn't intended if misinterpreted

I just find crazy the WHOLE D not just the 3rd pairing has only 3 goals

Yes, I do agree on that (bolded) point. And, thanks for clarifying!

One thing in terms of a little more detail on the advanced stats is that I have mentioned a few weeks ago that our advanced stats have regressed. I’m thinking the October stats look better than the November stats. I don’t think the idea that the advanced stats could regress got a huge amount of attention.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Chychrun with 8 as well.

Dammit, big sunscreen strikes again.