Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think to get Crouse that it would take the 7th, not the 25th.

I don't think there is a trade for Crouse that would actually make sense for both us and Utah. There is no position of strength we can leverage to get him that helps Utah.

People are overvaluing Joseph and are going to be disappointed at the kind of picks or kind of player he returns.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Be more specific, otherwise you're just stirring the soup.

He always does

 

[Cosmix]

I think to get Crouse that it would take the 7th, not the 25th.

I don't think there is a trade for Crouse that would actually make sense for both us and Utah. There is no position of strength we can leverage to get him that helps Utah.

People are overvaluing Joseph and are going to be disappointed at the kind of picks or kind of player he returns.

Not worth the 7th.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

3 separate trade ideas with Philly assuming we want Laughton. I am not endorsing, just bored.

Joseph + 39OA for Laughton

Chabot for Ristolainen + Laughton

Chychrun + Joseph for Laughton + FLA 1st.

Let the boos rain down.

Laughton needs to get traded and get a no team trade clause with ottawa on it so we don't have to hear about him anymore.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Not worth the 7th.

On paper, he's worth the 7th.

He isn't worth it to us. It would be a terrible trade given our situation. Granted, he has 3 years of term - it would be the same thing we keep doing with high picks. Trading them for a veteran and then having to liquidate that veteran shortly after for much less.

There is no trade we could make for Crouse that makes any sense. I would want Pinto if I were them, and we aren't doing Pinto for Crouse.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

On paper, he's worth the 7th.

He isn't worth it to us. It would be a terrible trade given our situation. Granted, he has 3 years of term - it would be the same thing we keep doing with high picks. Trading them for a veteran and then having to liquidate that veteran shortly after for much less.

There is no trade we could make for Crouse that makes any sense. I would want Pinto if I were them, and we aren't doing Pinto for Crouse.

7th OA for a 40 point winger with some "intangibles" is laughable. He doesn't even have a lot of hits on the season.
Overhyped player.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not sure why Crouse is even being brought up.

Utah is trying to make the playoffs and they already have a tiny forward group full of offense-first players.

Crouse fills a need on their team and they have a billion draft picks already.

He'd probably only be traded for a top 4 RD.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Idk 2.9 for a guy that brings an element of speed (which we lack) plays decently defensively is not too much imo.

I think its more about using Joseph to gain assets as much as it is about cap soace/roster construction

 

[ottawagm]

If we get nothing back for Joseph then it's still a 2nd worth of value from where we were last year.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Priorities:
1. #1 Goalie - Spencer Knight
2. RD - Brayden Schneider
3. RW - Jack Roslovic
4. Tough guy - Lawson Crouse LW
- Knight & Schneider are both young enough to grow with the Sens young roster
- Roslovic & Crouse are two gritty vets & Crouse a legitimate heavyweight
- Kubalik LW ($2.5 mil out)

Stole Some Trade Ideas:
To Florida: Forsberg G & Brannstrom LD ($4.735 mil out)
To Ottawa: Spencer Knight G ($4.5 mil in) - difference $.235K

To NYR: Chychrun LD ($4.6 mil out)
To Ott: Schneider RD & Roslovic RW ($4.6 mil in) (signed)

To Utah: Joseph LW/RW & Bost 1st rd pick 25th OA ($3 mil out)
To Ottawa: Lawson Crouse LW ($4.3 mil in) - difference $1.3 mil

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Stutzle - Pinto - Roslovic
Crouse - Greig - Giroux
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - MacEwan/Kelly - $53 mil

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Schneider
Kleven - JBD/Hamonic - $25 mil

Knight - Korpisalo/Sogaard - $8.5 mil = $86.5

I like the Crouse trade. Makes the team bigger and tougher.

Sure, but the question, or part of it that many (or most) don’t bother with is does Utah want to move Crouse? Phoenix/Utah were adding players last year in the summer versus continuing the perpetual rebuild.

Using another example, I think its appropriate to ask why a team with a good, young RD would want to move him for one year of Chychrun. Even if there was a reason, there would likely be a lot of interest, so it's not going to be a underwhelming offer from any team that would get it done.

It's going to be a long summer.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Someone brought up a 3-way Karlsson trade a few pages back.

My idea would be:

• Karlsson to Ottawa.
• Chabot to NYI. (Maybe Roy still likes him?)
• Mayfield to PIT (He is NYI's Cody Ceci now and is signed forever. Has a NTC, but maybe he would waive for a change of scenery after a tough year. Pittsburgh is unlikely to care about his term because they are in win now mode.)

The logic of the trade would be they all prefer those different D to the ones they have now, and Pittsburgh prioritizes short-term cap space to load up the team for Crosby and Malkin over the next 2 seasons over long-term cap space when they will be rebuilding anyways.

Then some moving parts have to be included to make it cap in/cap out for everybody. Something along the lines of Pageau out of NYI, Korpisalo out of OTT, and Smith out of PIT.

Something like:

• Karlsson+Smith (@ 2.5) to Ottawa (12.5M in 12.0M out this season) (32.5M in total, 48M out total)
• Mayfield+Korpisalo+Pageau to PIT (12.5M in 15M out this season) (51M in total, 35M out)
• Chabot to NYI (8M in 11.5M out this season) (34.5M in total, 31M out)

The Islanders retain 2.5M on Smith's 1 year contract, because they are dumping Pageau's 2 year contract.

The trade would be made with the understanding that Pittsburgh is going to buyout Korpisalo which would save them an additional 3.67M this season and 3.17M next season, to actually make it about 8.83M in and 15M out. That is hugely beneficial to Pittsburgh since it gets them enough cap space to go out and acquire another star player.

Ultimately, when you look at the above calculations, it's obvious Pittsburgh is getting the worse situation long term money wise, so Ottawa sends Pittsburgh the Boston 1st, and NYI sends PIT a 2026 3rd.

At the end of the day, Pittsburgh adds Mayfield and Pageau to their roster and can turn around and flip the 1st+3rd to acquire a star player with their 6M in new cap space. The big thing to consider why this works for Pittsburgh is because they are going to value short term cap space and competing now over the liability of Mayfield being on the books long-term.

Ottawa gets their veteran forward in Smith, they move on from Chabot, and they bring back Erik Karlsson which will sell a ton of season tickets after a disappointing year. This costs them a late 1st, is cap neutral in the short term, but saves them a boatload of long-term cap space between Karlsson's contract ending 1 year before Chabot's, and getting out of the Korpisalo contract. Almost think of it like Karlsson for Chabot is a lateral move cap wise (30M owed for Karlsson vs 32M owed for Chabot), and the Senators pay a 1st to trade Korpisalo for Smith @ 2.5M.

The Islanders turn Mayfield into Chabot for a 3rd, and get out of 7.5M of Pageau's remaining 10M in salary. Mayfield's contract was already looking like it would be a long-term liability, so that cancels out Chabot being overpaid.

Most importantly, everybody dumps/shuffles around their bad contracts to make each team better without having to burn retention spots long term. There is only 1 retention spot used in this trade (NYI retaining on Smith) and that expires at the end of this season. There is dead cap on Pittsburgh via the Korpisalo buyout, but that isn't nearly as limiting as burning a retention spot for 3+ season would be.

 

[aragorn]

Sure, but the question, or part of it that many (or most) don’t bother with is does Utah want to move Crouse? Phoenix/Utah were adding players last year in the summer versus continuing the perpetual rebuild.

Using another example, I think its appropriate to ask why a team with a good, young RD would want to move him for one year of Chychrun. Even if there was a reason, there would likely be a lot of interest, so it's not going to be a underwhelming offer from any team that would get it done.

It's going to be a long summer.

Of course your right & that is the possibility with any trade proposal as to why the other side would trade that player. The same arguement applies when we hear rumours of our players being traded as to why Ott would trade a good player & of course people can come up with all kinds of arguements as to why trade a certain player or not trade them. I also agree, if I was Utah I wouldn't trade Crouse because he is exactly the kind of player I want on Ott.

If I were the NYR I wouldn't trade Schneider because he is exactly the kind of defenceman I want on Ott. Having said that though, when we look at the NYR lineup, they have Fox & Trouba in front of Schneider at RD & at LD their best LD arguably is K'Andre Miller & Chychrun arguably could move into their top 4 improving their Ds offensive production. One could also argue the opposite where it makes them weaker defensively without Schneider & I would agree. Schneider would likely fit into our top 4 while Chychrun would likely fit into their top 4.

Where does that leave us? Potentially unable to make any moves unless they are hockey moves that improve both sides & every trade that has ever happened there are those for & those against. It's always afterwards, yrs later sometimes that we can determine whether a trade is good or not & in a number of cases it can be argued whether it has worked out for both sides. People post all kinds of trades & a number of them like mine are head scratchers that make you wonder why the other team would do that, but in some cases teams move on from certain players for all kinds of reasons. The teams that trade good players are usually rebuilding & out of the playoffs & those that trade young players/picks are looking to move onto the next higher level with established players. C'est la vie.

 

[BigRig4]

Someone brought up a 3-way Karlsson trade a few pages back.

My idea would be:

• Karlsson to Ottawa.
• Chabot to NYI. (Maybe Roy still likes him?)
• Mayfield to PIT (He is NYI's Cody Ceci now and is signed forever. Has a NTC, but maybe he would waive for a change of scenery after a tough year. Pittsburgh is unlikely to care about his term because they are in win now mode.)

The logic of the trade would be they all prefer those different D to the ones they have now, and Pittsburgh prioritizes short-term cap space to load up the team for Crosby and Malkin over the next 2 seasons over long-term cap space when they will be rebuilding anyways.

Then some moving parts have to be included to make it cap in/cap out for everybody. Something along the lines of Pageau out of NYI, Korpisalo out of OTT, and Smith.

Something like:

• Karlsson+Smith (@ 2.5) to Ottawa (12.5M in 12.5M out this season) (32.M in total, 48M out total)
• Mayfield+Korpisalo+Pageau to PIT (12.5M in 15M out this season) (51M in total, 35M out)
• Chabot to NYI (8M in 11.5M out this season) (34.5M in total, 31M out)

The Islanders retain 2.5M on Smith's 1 year contract, because they are dumping Pageau's 2 year contract.

The trade would be made with the understanding that Pittsburgh is going to buyout Korpisalo which would save them an additional 3.67M this season and 3.17M next season, to actually make it about 8.83M in and 15M out. That is hugely beneficial to Pittsburgh since it gets them enough cap space to go out and acquire another star player.

Ultimately, when you look at the above calculations, it's obvious Pittsburgh is getting the worse situation long term money wise, so Ottawa sends Pittsburgh the Boston 1st, and NYI sends PIT a 2026 3rd.

At the end of the day, Pittsburgh adds Mayfield and Pageau to their roster and can turn around and flip the 1st+3rd to acquire a star player with their 6M in new cap space. The big thing to consider why this works for Pittsburgh is because they are going to value short term cap space and competing now over the liability of Mayfield being on the books long-term.

Ottawa gets their veteran forward in Smith, they move on from Chabot, and they bring back Erik Karlsson which will sell a ton of season tickets after a disappointing year. This costs them a late 1st, is cap neutral in the short term, but saves them a boatload of long-term cap space between Karlsson's contract ending 1 year before Chabot's, and getting out of the Korpisalo contract. Almost think of it like Karlsson for Chabot is a lateral move cap wise (30M owed for Karlsson vs 32M owed for Chabot), and the Senators pay a 1st to trade Korpisalo for Smith @ 2.5M.

The Islanders turn Mayfield into Chabot for a 3rd, and get out of 7.5M of Pageau's remaining 10M in salary. Mayfield's contract was already looking like it would be a long-term liability, so that cancels out Pageau being overpaid.

Most importantly, everybody dumps/shuffles around their bad contracts to make each team better without having to burn retention spots long term. There is only 1 retention spot used in this trade (NYI retaining on Smith) and that expires at the end of this season. There is dead cap on Pittsburgh via the Korpisalo buyout, but that isn't nearly as limiting as burning a retention spot for 3+ season would be.

Great post, very well thought out. I think NYI need to add a pick going to Pittsburgh to entice them a bit more. PIT gets a bit of a raw deal currently taking a dump + retaining.

 

[Loach]

Someone brought up a 3-way Karlsson trade a few pages back.

My idea would be:

• Karlsson to Ottawa.
• Chabot to NYI. (Maybe Roy still likes him?)
• Mayfield to PIT (He is NYI's Cody Ceci now and is signed forever. Has a NTC, but maybe he would waive for a change of scenery after a tough year. Pittsburgh is unlikely to care about his term because they are in win now mode.)

The logic of the trade would be they all prefer those different D to the ones they have now, and Pittsburgh prioritizes short-term cap space to load up the team for Crosby and Malkin over the next 2 seasons over long-term cap space when they will be rebuilding anyways.

Then some moving parts have to be included to make it cap in/cap out for everybody. Something along the lines of Pageau out of NYI, Korpisalo out of OTT, and Smith.

Something like:

• Karlsson+Smith (@ 2.5) to Ottawa (12.5M in 12.5M out this season) (32.M in total, 48M out total)
• Mayfield+Korpisalo+Pageau to PIT (12.5M in 15M out this season) (51M in total, 35M out)
• Chabot to NYI (8M in 11.5M out this season) (34.5M in total, 31M out)

The Islanders retain 2.5M on Smith's 1 year contract, because they are dumping Pageau's 2 year contract.

The trade would be made with the understanding that Pittsburgh is going to buyout Korpisalo which would save them an additional 3.67M this season and 3.17M next season, to actually make it about 8.83M in and 15M out. That is hugely beneficial to Pittsburgh since it gets them enough cap space to go out and acquire another star player.

Ultimately, when you look at the above calculations, it's obvious Pittsburgh is getting the worse situation long term money wise, so Ottawa sends Pittsburgh the Boston 1st, and NYI sends PIT a 2026 3rd.

At the end of the day, Pittsburgh adds Mayfield and Pageau to their roster and can turn around and flip the 1st+3rd to acquire a star player with their 6M in new cap space. The big thing to consider why this works for Pittsburgh is because they are going to value short term cap space and competing now over the liability of Mayfield being on the books long-term.

Ottawa gets their veteran forward in Smith, they move on from Chabot, and they bring back Erik Karlsson which will sell a ton of season tickets after a disappointing year. This costs them a late 1st, is cap neutral in the short term, but saves them a boatload of long-term cap space between Karlsson's contract ending 1 year before Chabot's, and getting out of the Korpisalo contract. Almost think of it like Karlsson for Chabot is a lateral move cap wise (30M owed for Karlsson vs 32M owed for Chabot), and the Senators pay a 1st to trade Korpisalo for Smith @ 2.5M.

The Islanders turn Mayfield into Chabot for a 3rd, and get out of 7.5M of Pageau's remaining 10M in salary. Mayfield's contract was already looking like it would be a long-term liability, so that cancels out Pageau being overpaid.

Most importantly, everybody dumps/shuffles around their bad contracts to make each team better without having to burn retention spots long term. There is only 1 retention spot used in this trade (NYI retaining on Smith) and that expires at the end of this season. There is dead cap on Pittsburgh via the Korpisalo buyout, but that isn't nearly as limiting as burning a retention spot for 3+ season would be.

Do you mean Reilly Smith from Pitt?

 

[aragorn]

I think to get Crouse that it would take the 7th, not the 25th.

I don't think there is a trade for Crouse that would actually make sense for both us and Utah. There is no position of strength we can leverage to get him that helps Utah.

People are overvaluing Joseph and are going to be disappointed at the kind of picks or kind of player he returns.

I agree, if I was them I wouldn't trade him for any reason, he is exactly the kind of player every playoff team would need which is why I would love to have him in Ottawa. When we were talking about getting Chychrun from Phoenix, I said we should go after Crouse & have wanted him for quite some time. Same for Tom Wilson.

I’d do all of these, but the other teams wouldn’t.

I know, I wouldn't do it either if I were them.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Do you mean Reilly Smith from Pitt?

Yes, they apparently want to move him.

NYI would retain on Smith, not Pittsburgh.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Someone brought up a 3-way Karlsson trade a few pages back.


The logic of the trade would be they all prefer those different D to the ones they have now,

We move an offensive d-man, to get an offensive d-man back. And, we’d still have a need for a defender that is good at defending. We were tied for 5th worst in goals against last year.

 

[Loach]

Yes, they apparently want to move him.

NYI would retain on Smith, not Pittsburgh.

Ah. Thank you. Interesting idea you have there. Taking all of Karls 10m would be off set by Korps going out. A left d to play with Karl would be easier to find than a rd for Chabot. We still have Chych to move for picks/goalie/whatever. Can you figure out how to get Deslaurier too? For aragorn because he can't have Crouse.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

We move an offensive d-man, to get an offensive d-man back. And, we’d still have a need for a defender that is good at defending. We were tied for 5th worst in goals against last year.

Karlsson for Chabot is a lateral move with these two benefits:

1. The return of Karlsson will be a major positive news story. It will help season ticket sales. Season ticket sales were strong last year, but after a hugely disappointing season there is no guarantee they remain as strong.
2. It breaks up the current failing core by moving the longest standing veteran player. Bringing in Karlsson could be hugely negative or hugely positive depending on what type of response they want to illicit out of the remaining core. He is an alleged big personality who would be returning to the kingdom that he used to have the keys to. There is also a "my dad is the coach" effect with Alfredsson on the bench. Ultimately, it will shatter whatever preconceived norms the team might have and create a dramatic storming effect, which they clearly are already trying to accomplish with Green threatening to murder them cardiovascularly.

Then the other element of the trade is that it brings in a veteran forward, which is on our checklist. It also allows us to dump Korpisalo.

Karlsson is not the kind of player the Senators need, but the above proposal is closer to a 1 for 1 lateral move between Karlsson and Chabot. Where they both occupy similar roles. It's not the same as us giving up assets+cap space for Karlsson in place of adding what we actually need.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Karlsson for Chabot is a lateral move with these two benefits:

1. The return of Karlsson will be a major positive news story. It will help season ticket sales. Season ticket sales were strong last year, but after a hugely disappointing season there is no guarantee they remain as strong.
2. It breaks up the current failing core by moving the longest standing veteran player. Bringing in Karlsson could be hugely negative or hugely positive depending on what type of response they want to illicit out of the remaining core. He is an alleged big personality who would be returning to the kingdom that he used to have the keys to. There is also a "my dad is the coach" effect with Alfredsson on the bench. Ultimately, it will shatter whatever preconceived norms the team might have and create a dramatic storming effect, which they clearly are already trying to accomplish with Green threatening to murder them cardiovascularly.

Then the other element of the trade is that it brings in a veteran forward, which is on our checklist. It also allows us to dump Korpisalo.

Karlsson is not the kind of player the Senators need, but the above proposal is closer to a 1 for 1 lateral move between Karlsson and Chabot. Where they both occupy similar roles. It's not the same as us giving up assets+cap space for Karlsson in place of adding what we actually need.

I was thinking that if we have a trade chip like Chabot, we might want it to address one of largest needs versus a lateral swap.

Winning will be the best tonic for increased ticket sales. Until we can play better team D, I wouldn’t expect us to win that much. Smith Is OK if he can PK which is another area of weakness last year.

 

[Sun God Nika]

88M Cap.

Tkachuk(8.2) - Stutzle(8.3)- Giroux(6.5)
(______) - Norris(8) - Batherson(5)
Joseph(3) - Greig(0.9) - (_______)
1M Player - 1M Player - 1M Player
1M Player
(45)


Chabot(8) - Zub(4.6)
Sanderson(8) - Chychrun(4.6)
Hamonic (1.1) - JBD(0.9)
Kleven (0.9
(28.1)

Forsberg (2.75)
Korpisalo(4)
(6.75)

About 8M in cap space if we carried the existing roster just with Pinto to sign and that includes the White cap credit.

Pinto to sign. Chychrun to trade, Hamonic to buy out. Joseph to trade. Gotta get a top 6 winger. 1 Goalie to be moved and acquired I would say the sens are pretty comfortable cap wise. Just gotta navigate convincing free agents to come here or players to waive their NTC.

 

[Golden_Jet]

88M Cap.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
(______) - Norris - Batherson
Joseph - Greig - (_______)
(______) - (______) - (______)

Chabot(8) - Zub(4.6)
Sanderson(8) - Chychrun(4.6)
Hamonic (1.1) - JBD(0.9)
(27.2)

Forsberg (2.75)
Korpisalo(4)
(6.75

You’re a little over the cap and missing a spare forward and D.
Can’t be playing short again. I’d like to see a 22 man roster and a 1-2% of cap, to spare for injuries or a move if team thinks that’s what needed.

 

[Sun God Nika]

You’re a little over the cap and missing a spare forward and D.
Can’t be playing short again. I’d like to see a 22 man roster and a 1-2% of cap, to spare for injuries or a move if team thinks that’s what needed.

ya i edited the post to get a more accurate picture.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Don’t want crouse. Don’t trust trading with that team. Nobody gives a f*** about them and not sure how much honest coverage we even hear.

Defense shit players get a pass on everything cuz “weak team around them”.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I was thinking that if we have a trade chip like Chabot, we might want it to address one of largest needs versus a lateral swap.

Winning will be the best tonic for increased ticket sales. Until we can play better team D, I wouldn’t expect us to win that much. Smith Is OK if he can PK which is another area of weakness last year.

It was reported closer to the trade deadline that Chabot is a negative-value asset. The Senators would need to take back salary to trade him. If we could trade Chabot straight across for a top 4 RHD that fits our needs better, of course we should do that. I don't think there is a deal out there like that.

The trade is basically 3 teams getting together and organizing a change of scenery with 3 different negative value assets. It's meant to create a situation where they can all walk away with a D that they prefer, without one team retaining.

The additional purpose is to take advantage of the situation Pittsburgh is in with Crosby, Malkin, and Letang all nearing retirement. They apparently want to keep trying to win. That means that they might value short-term cap space more than long-term cap space. In the long-term, 3-4 years down the road, they will be rebuilding. So an 8 year Korpisalo buyout, or Mayfield declining physically while still under contract 4+ years from now won't matter as much to them.

Obviously, it's more of a challenge or thought exercise than a realistic trade that would happen in real life. There are too many moving parts and different elements, with too many chances for it to fall through.