Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Like so many other players, Ceci was overused in Ottawa. Too high up the depth chart. He was basically used as shut down D #1 playing too much and was more like a #3 than a complimentary #4. And of course everyone was scared off by the talk of the big long term deal that he never ended up getting.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Vasilevsky isn't playing behind them and has been below average this year. he's got a .899 sv%.

I think the idea that the team in front of him is the reason Korpisalo has been inconsistent just doesn't line up with reality. I mean, Forsberg as you put it, had vezinal level numbers one season, that year we had an xGA/60 that was 6th worst in the league (all strengths), this year our all strength xGA is 13th best in the league, and it's been the best in the league since 12 Jan, unfortunately that's been paired with league worst sv% all year (and since 12 Jan)

We've been getting team defense good enough for a goalie to look acceptable, our issue is no longer the play in front of the goalie, it's been on the goalie for a while now.

I mean we could have prime in form Vasilivsky and he would have been annoyed to play behind this team this year and many years prior. Probably would have asked for a trade out.

And Vasilivsky is having a bad season and it just so happens it's behind the weakest defensive team Tampa has put out in years.

This team has only had Martin for what 2 months? And only played good defensively for a month and a half maybe less?

Team went 8-2-2 over that stretch and even if the goalies could have been better we really have no proven alternatives we can get. so might as well let the goalies find their confidence and consistency after playing behind a shinny team for the majority of the year.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Defensive dmen are always underappreciated by fans, I'm not saying Ceci was/is a stud, but the guy has always gotten tough deployment

I also think Ceci has had trouble shaking the reputation he had while here,

You think leafs fans just agreed with sens fan because of rep? And penguins ?

I asked the oilers board what they thought about Ceci.

I mean this is a long time since he played for the sens.

One thought I was from the Canucks board and offered me him for blueger

Some complimentary things said “best asset is he’s RHD and passable at the NHL level”.

And
“Contract is good”.

One poster was a little more complimentary. Saying he was a perfectly fine top 4 guy. Fair enough

Which is essentially it. His skating and size get him shoehorned into roles that are beyond him.

I was responding to a post that said we owe him an apology because he’s apparently a top pairing d man now. That’s all.

He’s not great. But is fast. And big.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You think leafs fans just agreed with sens fan because of rep? And penguins ?

I asked the oilers board what they thought about Ceci.

I mean this is a long time since he played for the sens.

One thought I was from the Canucks board and offered me him for blueger

Some complimentary things said “best asset is he’s RHD and passable at the NHL level”.

And
“Contract is good”.

One poster was a little more complimentary. Saying he was a perfectly fine top 4 guy. Fair enough

Which is essentially it. His skating and size get him shoehorned into roles that are beyond him.

I was responding to a post that said we owe him an apology because he’s apparently a top pairing d man now. That’s all.

He’s not great. But is fast. And big.

Not weighing in on the general argument but Ceci did very well in Pittsburgh and their fans liked him. They had 5 D set to make over $4mil in 2021-2022, though, so they couldn't keep him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not weighing in on the general argument but Ceci did very well in Pittsburgh and their fans liked him. They had 5 D set to make over $4mil in 2021-2022, though, so they couldn't keep him.

So he likely wasn’t seen as their top pairing d man.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

So he likely wasn’t seen as their top pairing d man.

Lol as I said, I'm not weighing in on that. I agree with your conclusion - Ceci is not a legit or ideal top pairing Dman, nor was he used as one in Pittsburgh - but what you said about him in Pittsburgh is still false.

 

[bert]

I'm sure there's a professional team in France that'll take him. He speaks French right?

I can't see any NHL team taking him with his AAV and money owed unless they offload millions in bad contracts as part of the deal

I think you are probalby right. Would people do it for Kuznetsov and a pick? What about Chabot and Bostons first for Hertl? These are the types of deals the sens likely need to look at to move him.

 

[BondraTime]

Wonder if we could take advantage of Vegas' new capspace.

Tarasenko + Chychrun

Dorofeyev, Edstrom, 1st, + 2nd

We'd have a ton of assets to find a 2nd pair RD at the draft or UFA, a young replacement winger for the top 9 in Dorofeyev, and a very good prospect who would immediately jump to our #1 in Edstrom

 

[Micklebot]

You think leafs fans just agreed with sens fan because of rep? And penguins ?

I asked the oilers board what they thought about Ceci.

I mean this is a long time since he played for the sens.

One thought I was from the Canucks board and offered me him for blueger

Some complimentary things said “best asset is he’s RHD and passable at the NHL level”.

And
“Contract is good”.

One poster was a little more complimentary. Saying he was a perfectly fine top 4 guy. Fair enough

Which is essentially it. His skating and size get him shoehorned into roles that are beyond him.

I was responding to a post that said we owe him an apology because he’s apparently a top pairing d man now. That’s all.

He’s not great. But is fast. And big.

I think the truth lies in the middle, he's not a top pairing Dman in the sense that most think of it (that in an of itself is its own debate, we can't even agree on whether Chychrun qualifies), but he was/is never as bad as twitter would suggest.

In the end, the guy has played >20 mins a night almost every where he goes with numerous different coaches, so he must be doing something the coaches appreciate that the fans aren't seeing.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Wonder if we could take advantage of Vegas' new capspace.

Tarasenko + Chychrun

Dorofeyev, Edstrom, 1st, + 2nd

We'd have a ton of assets to find a 2nd pair RD at the draft or UFA, a young replacement winger for the top 9 in Dorofeyev, and a very good prospect who would immediately jump to our #1 in Edstrom

I'd be willing to retain 50% on both for that kind of return.

Having said that I don't think Vegas will go all-in again after having just won the cup, nor should they give up Edstrom or their 1st given their barren pool.

Could see them being interested in Tarasenko, as they need scoring help badly, but they are pretty stacked on D already, not sure if they would want Chychrun.

I'd target Korczak in a Tarasenko trade. Could develop into a solid defensive RD.

 

[BigRig4]

I mean we could have prime in form Vasilivsky and he would have been annoyed to play behind this team this year and many years prior. Probably would have asked for a trade out.

And Vasilivsky is having a bad season and it just so happens it's behind the weakest defensive team Tampa has put out in years.

This team has only had Martin for what 2 months? And only played good defensively for a month and a half maybe less?

Team went 8-2-2 over that stretch and even if the goalies could have been better we really have no proven alternatives we can get. so might as well let the goalies find their confidence and consistency after playing behind a shinny team for the majority of the year.

I'm far from an expert on goaltending but in my view I think analytics (although super valuable/interesting) still struggle to account for screens which is something our defence does a really poor job at preventing. We don't really have the size/mindset to push guys out of the paint. I think you're seeing that with Tampa lately having lost McDonagh/Bogosian and other big boys as well. This is, in part, why I'd like to see Kleven up and one of Chabot/Chychrun swapped for a more physical RD.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think the truth lies in the middle, he's not a top pairing Dman in the sense that most think of it (that in an of itself is its own debate, we can't even agree on whether Chychrun qualifies), but he was/is never as bad as twitter would suggest.

In the end, the guy has played >20 mins a night almost every where he goes with numerous different coaches, so he must be doing something the coaches appreciate that the fans aren't seeing.

I’ve said my piece on that. And I could be very wrong. Today’s nhl the game is blistering fast and d men can’t clutch and grab or even be overly physical unless they’re grreat in their timing. I don’t think there are enough top 4 d man in the NHL to go around. And cecis physical tools get him into a role that is beyond him.

Two responses from penguins board. One guy said he was good and proved himself out. Fair.

Another said in lower role he’s good. Then they start playing him as one of their top 3 d men and he started getting badly exposed. Also fair.

But we need to end this. I feel sick just debated Cody Ceci. Nobody bring up Jared Cowen either.

 

[Micklebot]

I mean we could have prime in form Vasilivsky and he would have been annoyed to play behind this team this year and many years prior. Probably would have asked for a trade out.

And Vasilivsky is having a bad season and it just so happens it's behind the weakest defensive team Tampa has put out in years.

This team has only had Martin for what 2 months? And only played good defensively for a month and a half maybe less?

Team went 8-2-2 over that stretch and even if the goalies could have been better we really have no proven alternatives we can get. so might as well let the goalies find their confidence and consistency after playing behind a shinny team for the majority of the year.

This reads like Vasilevski is and always has been just a product of the defense in front of him. Do you actually believe that? Why did Anderson still look competent when the Benny Hill theme was playing as MacLean coached teams struggled to play structured defense? Why was Forsberg and Nilsson able to look competent under DJ no less? Why aren't SJ's goalies stinkers like Korpi does?

The reality is Korpisalo has never really been good, aside from for short spurts; what we're seeing a continuation of his career norm, maybe a touch worse than his average thanks to him performing well above his career average last year.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This reads like Vasilevski is and always has been just a product of the defense in front of him. Do you actually believe that? Why did Anderson still look competent when the Benny Hill theme was playing as MacLean coached teams struggled to play structured defense? Why was Forsberg and Nilsson able to look competent under DJ no less? Why aren't SJ's goalies stinkers like Korpi does?

The reality is Korpisalo has never really been good, aside from for short spurts; what we're seeing a continuation of his career norm, maybe a touch worse than his average thanks to him performing well above his career average last year.

We got what we paid for, basically. He had 4 seasons in Columbus that look relatively comparable save % and GAA wise at least. He was even worse in 2021-22 in those categories.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This reads like Vasilevski is and always has been just a product of the defense in front of him. Do you actually believe that? Why did Anderson still look competent when the Benny Hill theme was playing as MacLean coached teams struggled to play structured defense? Why was Forsberg and Nilsson able to look competent under DJ no less? Why aren't SJ's goalies stinkers like Korpi does?

The reality is Korpisalo has never really been good, aside from for short spurts; what we're seeing a continuation of his career norm, maybe a touch worse than his average thanks to him performing well above his career average last year.

no what im saying is that no matter what goalie you have, when you can only rely on one defensive pair and most of the forwards are still learning to play defensively it will be hard for any goalie even elite goalies to perform and be consistent.

people are scapegoating the goalies as if they are the only thing holding this team back when this team has only started playing passable defensive hockey for a few weeks and still has major defensive breakdowns.

all goalies would struggle to find consistency in that environment.

we can go get whatever next random goalie that will be available but until the structural and personnel issues are fixed they will struggle too.

 

[Micklebot]

We got what we paid for, basically. He had 4 seasons in Columbus that look relatively comparable save % and GAA wise at least. He was even worse in 2021-22 in those categories.

Yeah, last year appears to be a mirage,

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, last year appears to be a mirage,

Sadly. It seems 2019-20 and his rookie season are the only ones you can point to otherwise.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think this off-season has proved that goalies are an absolute crapshoot and giving term to them is usually a mistake.

LA passed up Korpisalo in favour of a goaltending trio (Talbot, Rittich and Copley) and it's worked out well. Copley has sucked but Talbot and Rittich have save percentages above .910 and cost next to nothing at 1.875M for both.

Detroit regretted giving Husso 4.75M x 3YRs and signed both Reimer and Lyon as insurance in case he sucked again, which he has. Meanwhile Reimer has been solid and Lyon has saved their season, with both costing a total of 2.4M.

 

[Micklebot]

no what im saying is that no matter what goalie you have, when you can only rely on one defensive pair and most of the forwards are still learning to play defensively it will be hard for any goalie even elite goalies to perform and be consistent.

people are scapegoating the goalies as if they are the only thing holding this team back when this team has only started playing passable defensive hockey for a few weeks and still has major defensive breakdowns.

all goalies would struggle to find consistency in that environment.

we can go get whatever next random goalie that will be available but until the structural and personnel issues are fixed they will struggle too.

You're just scapegoating the defense, I watch a lot of hockey and I really don't see evidence of our defense being uniquely bad relative to the league, and they certainly aren't uniquely bad withing the context of this teams last few years, yet Korpisalo has been by far the worst starter we had and is posting some of if not the worst numbers of any starter this year.

GSAA/60 all situations Sens starter
2023-24 Korpisalo -.52
2022-23 Talbot -.17
2021-22 Forsberg +.34
2020-21 Murray -.47
2019-20 Anderson -.27
2018-19 Anderson -.26

The only guy close is broken Murray, he has been beyond brutal, this isn't a goalie getting hung out to dry, it's a bad goalie playing bad.

 

[chipsens]

Josh Norris for Zegras?! Trade Norris's lethal shot for Zegras's sick playmaking. I know Josh is Brady's pal..but you gotta give to get. Who says no?!

 

[Alex1234]

I think this off-season has proved that goalies are an absolute crapshoot and giving term to them is usually a mistake.

LA passed up Korpisalo in favour of a goaltending trio (Talbot, Rittich and Copley) and it's worked out well. Copley has sucked but Talbot and Rittich have save percentages above .910 and cost next to nothing at 1.875M for both.

Detroit regretted giving Husso 4.75M x 3YRs and signed both Reimer and Lyon as insurance in case he sucked again, which he has. Meanwhile Reimer has been solid and Lyon has saved their season, with both costing a total of 2.4M.

They might have to do that for 1 year or 2 if they decide to buy Korpi out
A mix of Stolarz Brossoit Quick or something while waiting for the 2025 UFA crop

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think this off-season has proved that goalies are an absolute crapshoot and giving term to them is usually a mistake.

LA passed up Korpisalo in favour of a goaltending trio (Talbot, Rittich and Copley) and it's worked out well. Copley has sucked but Talbot and Rittich have save percentages above .910 and cost next to nothing at 1.875M for both.

Detroit regretted giving Husso 4.75M x 3YRs and signed both Reimer and Lyon as insurance in case he sucked again, which he has. Meanwhile Reimer has been solid and Lyon has saved their season, with both costing a total of 2.4M.

I just don't understand what even warranted Korpisalo being in line for such a deal. I was so confused this summer when it happened, and I'm still confused. If a guy like Korpisalo is deserving of a 5 year deal, there must be a line up of others. Were other teams prepared to go there? His track record was flat out not very good, and incredibly inconsistent.

For all the shit the Jack Campbell deal gets, he actually put up stellar numbers every year leading up to that. And at least Husso didn't have a track record of not being very good on top of his one good year, plus not a lot of term.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Josh Norris for Zegras?! Trade Norris's lethal shot for Zegras's sick playmaking. I know Josh is Brady's pal..but you gotta give to get. Who says no?!

Both say no, unless Ottawa is scared of the shoulder of Norris and wants to pass the buck on to a different team.

Anaheim can get rid of Zegras without having to take the Norris contract because Zegras has limited term remaining.

Norris is the better player, and Zegras does not fit the direction we need to go in with more defensively responsible and difficult to play against types.

If there is no market for Norris without retention or the Sens taking back a contract, taking Zegras would be a good way from an optics POV to get out of the Norris contract, but I can't see Anaheim doing it.

 

[Hale The Villain]

They might have to do that for 1 year or 2 if they decide to buy Korpi out
A mix of Stolarz Brossoit Quick or something while waiting for the 2025 UFA crop

They shouldn't buy Korpisalo out. We aren't in cap trouble and he could bounce back next season.

I would look to add a reliable consistent backup who isn't a game stealer but can provide a save percentage starting with .9 in case Korpisalo sucks again.

Reimer is a good example. He isn't a #1 but 14 of the 15 years he's been in the league he's had a save percentage at .900 or higher.

Compare that to Korpisalo who is 5/10. Can be top 10/15 in save percentage one year and the next he'll sink your team.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I just don't understand what even warranted Korpisalo being in line for such a deal. I was so confused this summer when it happened, and I'm still confused. If a guy like Korpisalo is deserving of a 5 year deal, there must be a line up of others. Were other teams prepared to go there? His track record was flat out not very good, and incredibly inconsistent.

For all the shit the Jack Campbell deal gets, he actually put up stellar numbers every year leading up to that. And at least Husso didn't have a track record of not being very good on top of his one good year, plus not a lot of term.

It's the typical deal signed by a desperate GM who knew that the contract wouldn't be his problem long term, it would be the problem of the next GM.

The way the goalie market is, 4M x 2 or 3 years for Korpisalo would have made sense. It wouldn't surprise me if he had higher AAV offers but they were 1-2 year contracts. The goalie market is difficult right now, there are not enough goalies to go around.

5 years is a ridiculous term for a goalie like Korpisalo. I don't know if I can even think of a comparable signing. Usually, teams go 2-3 years with goalies like that. Dorion likely didn't care because it ensured he got his goalie at a cap hit that worked and he was never going to have to deal with the fallout of the term.