Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

Top three lines are great, Norris could be playing better but I think he'll come around.

Brannstrom hasn't been bad, though I'd prefer a big defensive d in his spot, he's fine.

JBD is a bit uneven game to game, but if he can reduce the number of meh games he's going to be a really solid bottom four guy.

Kubalik just isn't a fourth liner, he's a scoring winger for a low end team that needs to fill roles. He's got to go ASAP.

Korpisalo has the odd stretch where you think maybe he's figured it out but always seems to revert, but him out and try again in the Summer.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Disagree. He can play 3rd pair.

Sure he can - he is a decent role player and will carve out a really decent career. But he struggles when the game gets quick & will struggle more when the games get more physical. He is extremely useless on the breakout, too.

If the market is as non-existent for him as I assume it will be for Brannstrom, I would be happy to hold onto him as a 6/7/8.

Sure he can. Him and Brannstrom are both + players playing 15 minutes a night and killing penalties. they're not the reason we suck. They're bottom pairing guys that are doing ok in their slot.

No one said they are the reason we suck.

We have very few non-core trade chips who can return anything of value. If JBD is one of them, I would let him go.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Need the scouts to actually do their job

Not the same ones please, but yes, f*** yes.

 

[bicboi64]

You're the one who brought up the Toronto comparison. I just pointed out that Tavares is lucky as hell to be hiding behind Matthews very large shadow.

The notion that Tavares is a mediocre leader is nonsense. He's overpaid af and I hope the Leafs overpay him on his next deal, but he's the perfect type of player to have as your captain when you have young stars who are demanding big bucks. Having a vet who's been in the league for a while, captained another team, and knows how to stay composed on and off the ice is vital for a rebuilding team.

We'd have been so much better off it someone could have been a C while being a legit player for us while our young, but big paid stars grow into their roles. Could've been Giroux, but that ship has sailed.

 

[bert]

Advanced stats and stats in general are for people who don't want to put in the work watching the games. Which isn't to say they don't have some value but they are useless the way 99 percent of the internet uses them, which is blindly in place of having any knowledge about hockey.

It's why Cody Ceci gets such a bad rep. You can pick stats that don't account for roles or situations and spam them on Twitter. Chris Wideman is a top pairing D, etc.

Lots of confirmation bias is involved. When stats say a player is good and the player is out of the league a year later, it's never brought up. When a good player has good stats and they excel, it's proof that advanced stats are useful.

Hockey is too random of a game to apply those formulas without already having a deep understanding of the game. The reason advanced stats picked up so much traction is that hockey is a very difficult game to understand on a certain level, and anybody who wasn't immersed in it since childhood is behind the curve when it comes to understanding the game on a professional level. Because of the nature of the internet, everybody feels the need to have an opinion, and they want their opinion to be valid and have weight. Advanced stats provide an easier entry point to giving your opinion weight than putting in the full-time hours watching and analyzing hockey, reading books or watching breakdowns that would be required to catch up and understand the game at a similar level to professionals who have spent decades immersed in it.

Ultimately, you all owe Cody Ceci a massive apology. He is the case study for this. He became a meme on Twitter because of these advanced stats, yet every team he goes to, he is deployed as a top pairing defenseman. We're talking about half a dozen pro coaches, multiple winning seasons, he's playing as a top pairing defenseman, but he is bad because something I originally mistook for a Rorschach test that was posted on Twitter dictates Chris Wideman (bottom pairing sheltered D) was better than Cody Ceci - when if you watch a playoff game you can see the other coaches salivating at the opportunity to get their top line out there against Wideman so that they can score goals.

Heck of a post!

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

What teams could want Chabot?

Feel like SJ should be interested. They need to insulate their kids better not to mention put out a more entertaining team for their fans.

Chabot would do both things.

 

[JD1]

What teams could want Chabot?

Feel like SJ should be interested. They need to insulate their kids better not to mention put out a more entertaining team for their fans.

Chabot would do both things.

I'm sure there's a professional team in France that'll take him. He speaks French right?

I can't see any NHL team taking him with his AAV and money owed unless they offload millions in bad contracts as part of the deal

 

[JD1]

Sure he can - he is a decent role player and will carve out a really decent career. But he struggles when the game gets quick & will struggle more when the games get more physical. He is extremely useless on the breakout, too.

If the market is as non-existent for him as I assume it will be for Brannstrom, I would be happy to hold onto him as a 6/7/8.

No one said they are the reason we suck.

We have very few non-core trade chips who can return anything of value. If JBD is one of them, I would let him go.

The idea of a trade is receiving more value than you're giving up. If JBD, as a RHD, has value and can return value, why would you move him? We need RHD. The only move that makes sense to me would be moving him for an RHD that you feel might be a better fit. And the better fit would be odd considering how many ND guys we have

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Advanced stats and stats in general are for people who don't want to put in the work watching the games. Which isn't to say they don't have some value but they are useless the way 99 percent of the internet uses them, which is blindly in place of having any knowledge about hockey.

It's why Cody Ceci gets such a bad rep. You can pick stats that don't account for roles or situations and spam them on Twitter. Chris Wideman is a top pairing D, etc.

Lots of confirmation bias is involved. When stats say a player is good and the player is out of the league a year later, it's never brought up. When a good player has good stats and they excel, it's proof that advanced stats are useful.

Hockey is too random of a game to apply those formulas without already having a deep understanding of the game. The reason advanced stats picked up so much traction is that hockey is a very difficult game to understand on a certain level, and anybody who wasn't immersed in it since childhood is behind the curve when it comes to understanding the game on a professional level. Because of the nature of the internet, everybody feels the need to have an opinion, and they want their opinion to be valid and have weight. Advanced stats provide an easier entry point to giving your opinion weight than putting in the full-time hours watching and analyzing hockey, reading books or watching breakdowns that would be required to catch up and understand the game at a similar level to professionals who have spent decades immersed in it.

Ultimately, you all owe Cody Ceci a massive apology. He is the case study for this. He became a meme on Twitter because of these advanced stats, yet every team he goes to, he is deployed as a top pairing defenseman. We're talking about half a dozen pro coaches, multiple winning seasons, he's playing as a top pairing defenseman, but he is bad because something I originally mistook for a Rorschach test that was posted on Twitter dictates Chris Wideman (bottom pairing sheltered D) was better than Cody Ceci - when if you watch a playoff game you can see the other coaches salivating at the opportunity to get their top line out there against Wideman so that they can score goals.

Top pairing d man that 3 teams got rid of for nothing? “Everywhere he’s gone he’s been deployed as a top pairing d man!”

A. I’m not sure that’s completely true
B. 3 of those teams were like “mm yeah let’s get rid of this guy”.

Ceci is not very good. Wasn’t very good and still isn’t very good.

The eye test said Ceci was bad. The stats just backed it up.

I don’t watch much oilers games. I don’t know if you do…. But a quick peak at oilers twitter isn’t overly complimentary of their ALLEDGED top pairing d man. He scored his first goal in 127 games.

So I dono if you just randomly picked Cody Ceci here to talk about.

And he’s found a home on the oilers. A team known for their unbelievable offense and lackluster defence…. A defence they’re constantly talking about improving.

 

[BondraTime]

Top pairing d man that 3 teams got rid of for nothing? “Everywhere he’s gone he’s been deployed as a top pairing d man!”

A. I’m not sure that’s completely true
B. 3 of those teams were like “mm yeah let’s get rid of this guy”.

Ceci is not very good. Wasn’t very good and still isn’t very good.

The eye test said Ceci was bad. The stats just backed it up.

I don’t watch much oilers games. I don’t know if you do…. But a quick peak at oilers twitter isn’t overly complimentary of their ALLEDGED top pairing d man. He scored his first goal in 127 games.

So I dono if you just randomly picked Cody Ceci here to talk about.

And he’s found a home on the oilers. A team known for their unbelievable offense and lackluster defence…. A defence they’re constantly talking about improving.

That's part of the point he was making

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That's part of the point he was making

Yeah but oilers twitter watches oilers games. I don’t. So I’ll reference people that do.


Oh. We are trying to say if you post on twitter you don’t watch the games and only watch advanced stats? That would obviously be very odd.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah but oilers twitter watches oilers games. I don’t. So I’ll reference people that do.


Oh. We are trying to say if you post on twitter you don’t watch the games and only watch advanced stats? That would obviously be very odd.

No, the point is that everyone on the internet has a voice. Not all voices are equal, even when there are hoards of them.

Sens twitter has some of the dumbest people I've ever seen on it, and they all echo each other. They all watch the games as well.

I'd love to have all my thoughts be what's actually happening and what should actually happen, but I don't understand nor see things at a level that is needed to actually have a meaningfully informed opinion on what should and shouldn't be done, other than what I'm used to at much lower levels. A majority of people on twitter or here have never even played the sport. We're just posting on the internet, which is perfectly fine, but is not indictive of what actually is happening or needs to happen. .

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No, the point is that everyone on the internet has a voice. Not all voices are equal, even when there are hoards of them.

Sens twitter has some of the dumbest people I've ever seen on it, and they all echo each other. They all watch the games as well.

So there’s no way of knowing anything or referencing anyone. Cody Ceci for years. Has been seen as a not very good d man. It was quite unanimous when he left here.

Some believers obviously. We weren’t watching the advanced stats. We watched him game in game out.

I unforntately have many leafs fans friends. Pretty unanimous he was atrocious there. But deployment he was alledgedly deployed as a top pair d there. Not my words.

Penguins let him go. I honestly don’t know if he was deployed as a top pair d there. Maybe? But they didn’t exactly scramble to sign him

Edmonton again. I don’t watch Edmonton. But I’m not gonna dismiss everything I hear from people that watch the games because of “echo chamber”. When what u hear matches what I watched for years. He just isn’t very good.

Now to solve this I would need to watch a lot of Edmonton games to see if he’s still bad.

But then others here would also have to watch a lot of Edmonton to prove he’s good. Instead of just saying “he’s been deployed as a top pair d man everywhere he’s gone and he’s good”. Which I don’t know if people have done or if they randomly picked a player out of a hat to make an argument

Sometimes when majority of people say something it’s just that. It’s just correct. I’m talking about his time in Ottawa and Toronto. Because that’s what I’m most familiar with.

Nothing about his time in Pittsburgh screams “massive improvement, now a top pairing d man”.

And thing is hear from oilers fans who watch games isn’t saying he’s a good top pairing d man. Now maybe this “echo chamber” has gotten so out of hand that yeah. No decent opinion of Cody Ceci can be seen. But I doubt that

Damn. I won the Cowan war. Won the Ceci war. Won the Colin white war and now I need to relive it. pTSD.

 

[Big Muddy]

Top pairing d man that 3 teams got rid of for nothing? “Everywhere he’s gone he’s been deployed as a top pairing d man!”

A. I’m not sure that’s completely true
B. 3 of those teams were like “mm yeah let’s get rid of this guy”.

Ceci is not very good. Wasn’t very good and still isn’t very good.

The eye test said Ceci was bad. The stats just backed it up.

I don’t watch much oilers games. I don’t know if you do…. But a quick peak at oilers twitter isn’t overly complimentary of their ALLEDGED top pairing d man. He scored his first goal in 127 games.

So I dono if you just randomly picked Cody Ceci here to talk about.

And he’s found a home on the oilers. A team known for their unbelievable offense and lackluster defence…. A defence they’re constantly talking about improving.

So, you think the Twitter twits have more veracity than the NHL coaches that have deployed Ceci (for 11 years)? LOL.

 

[BondraTime]

So there’s no way of knowing anything or referencing anyone. Cody Ceci for years. Has been seen as a not very good d man. It was quite unanimous when he left here.

Some believers obviously. We weren’t watching the advanced stats. We watched him game in game out.

I unforntately have many leafs fans friends. Pretty unanimous he was atrocious there. But deployment he was alledgedly deployed as a top pair d there. Not my words.

Penguins let him go. I honestly don’t know if he was deployed as a top pair d there. Maybe? But they didn’t exactly scramble to sign him

Edmonton again. I don’t watch Edmonton. But I’m not gonna dismiss everything I hear from people that watch the games because of “echo chamber”. When what u hear matches what I watched for years. He just isn’t very good.

Now to solve this I would need to watch a lot of Edmonton games to see if he’s still bad.

But then others here would also have to watch a lot of Edmonton to prove he’s good. Instead of just saying “he’s been deployed as a top pair d man everywhere he’s gone and he’s good”. Which I don’t know if people have done or if they randomly picked a player out of a hat to make an argument

Ceci was used because it was very apparent that he was an NHL quality D man that gets shit on endlessly by fans, most of whom have never played, which becomes the overwhelming reality online, while being relied on in a 20+ minute a night role everywhere he goes by those who have been playing and in the rinks for 40+ years.

He is seen as an AHL D man on here and on twitter, but every team he goes to he gets 20+ minutes, between 7 different coaches, in a defensive role.

I don't/didn't think Ceci was a good D man, I was glad to see him go, but the stark contrast between the prevailing thought online and in NHL circles is what happens all the time, and shows the vast difference in what NHL teams, managers, players and coaches see or understand (better or worse) than us online.

This team is better right now with Ceci in it's top 4 than without, and we'd get our punching bag back.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So, you think the Twitter twits have more veracity than the NHL coaches that have deployed Ceci? LOL.

Oh no not this f***ing argument again. I bet I can look through your history where you disagree with a coach’s choice. You think you know more????

Ceci was used because it was very apparent that he was an NHL quality D man that gets shit on endlessly by fans, most of whom have never played, which becomes the overwhelming reality online, while being relied on in a 20+ minute a night role everywhere he goes by those who have been playing and in the rinks for 40+ years.

He is seen as an AHL D man on here and on twitter, but every team he goes to he gets 20+ minutes, between 7 different coaches, in a defensive role.

I don't/didn't think Ceci was a good D man, I was glad to see him go, but the stark contrast between the prevailing thought online and in NHL circles is what happens all the time, and shows the vast difference in what NHL teams, managers, players and coaches see or understand (better or worse) than us online.

Well there’s some hyperbole on your part.

so you don’t think he’s a good dman. But nhl coaches do…. And you’ve played? I think.

Which is exactly what I said. And was leafs fans said. And what penguins fans said. And oilers fans. So you , I. And those fans are in agreement.

 

[BondraTime]

Oh no not this f***ing argument again. I bet I can look through your history where you disagree with a coach’s choice. You think you know more????


Well there’s some hyperbole on your part.

so you don’t think he’s a good dman. But nhl coaches do…. And you’ve played? I think.

Which is exactly what I said. And was leafs fans said. And what penguins fans said. And oilers fans. So you , I. And those fans are in agreement.

I'd love to have all my thoughts be what's actually happening and what should actually happen, but I don't understand nor see things at a level that is needed to actually have a meaningfully informed opinion on what should and shouldn't be done, other than what I'm used to at much lower levels.

Ceci is going to play 1000+ games in the NHL, and thus far all in a top 4 role. That's a ridiculously hard thing to do, and you would be sorted out extremely fast if you were not up to the task, like happens every year with guys

He's a very nice 2nd pairing D man to play for 19/21 minutes a game in a defensive role.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ceci was used because it was very apparent that he was an NHL quality D man that gets shit on endlessly by fans, most of whom have never played, which becomes the overwhelming reality online, while being relied on in a 20+ minute a night role everywhere he goes by those who have been playing and in the rinks for 40+ years.

He is seen as an AHL D man on here and on twitter, but every team he goes to he gets 20+ minutes, between 7 different coaches, in a defensive role.

I don't/didn't think Ceci was a good D man, I was glad to see him go, but the stark contrast between the prevailing thought online and in NHL circles is what happens all the time, and shows the vast difference in what NHL teams, managers, players and coaches see or understand (better or worse) than us online.

This team is better right now with Ceci in it's top 4 than without, and we'd get our punching bag back.

And, somehow he's managed to fool these coaches for the last 11 years in the most competitive hockey league that exists. LOL.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

And, somehow he's managed to fool these coaches for the last 11 years in the most competitive hockey league that exists. LOL.

I don’t know about fool. All those coaches deemed him dispensable. Something rarely seen with “top pairing d men”.

Not like he’s very pricey either? Top pairing d man for 3.5-4 mil???? That’s a steal. But the GMs (pros) said. Nah.

 

[Big Muddy]

I don’t know about fool. All those coaches deemed him dispensable. Something rarely seen with “top pairing d men”.

Not like he’s very pricey either? Top pairing d man for 3.5-4 mil???? That’s a steal. But the GMs (pros) said. Nah.

Why wouldn't his career have been washed out after his first coach if other coaches and GMs didn't think he wasn't an NHL defenseman?

Ceci is on the 2nd pair in Edmonton. I'm wasting my time.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Why wouldn't his career have been washed out after his first coach if other coaches and GMs didn't think he wasn't an NHL defenseman?

Ceci is on the 2nd pair in Edmonton. I'm wasting my time.

He’s an NHL d man. Not a good top pairing d man. Which is the post I was replying to.

I don’t think he’s a very good second pairing d man either.

I think with today’s speed and lack of physical play it’s hard to find enough good d men to fill top 4 roles on every team. And Ceci has size and speed. So he gets shoed into that role. That’s what I believe. Low puck skills. Low defensive IQ and hockey IQ in general

I don’t think there are 32x4 “really good d men” in the league that can handle the speed of the game with how little they can interfere with the forwards

 

[Micklebot]

So, you think the Twitter twits have more veracity than the NHL coaches that have deployed Ceci (for 11 years)? LOL.

Defensive dmen are always underappreciated by fans, I'm not saying Ceci was/is a stud, but the guy has always gotten tough deployment

I also think Ceci has had trouble shaking the reputation he had while here,

 

[Big Muddy]

Defensive dmen are always underappreciated by fans, I'm not saying Ceci was/is a stud, but the guy has always gotten tough deployment

I also think Ceci has had trouble shaking the reputation he had while here,

I agree. The good defensive things that defensemen do are just generally less noticeable and certainly less noticeable than something like scoring a goal or making a nice pass that sets up a goal.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I'm sure there's a professional team in France that'll take him. He speaks French right?

I can't see any NHL team taking him with his AAV and money owed unless they offload millions in bad contracts as part of the deal

Why we had the trade him 1/2 years ago before everyone caught on.

Now we're stuck.

 

[Tuna99]

Ott: Tom Wallinder (RD) #11 overall, 2nd 2025, 6th 2024
Van: Chychryn