Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Loach]

I didn’t want Dumba any of the other times his named has surfaced with us, and I only feel more that way every year.
1 or 2 year deal for 1.5 in the offseason for our 3rd pair? Sure.
Dumba for anything more? Completely uninterested.

I’d also recommend we root out whichever pro scout that survived the management change who keeps suggesting him.

You mean Bruce right?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

A proposed solution the Chychrun/RD dilemma:

To NYR:
Chychrun
Kastelic

To Ottawa:
Schneider
Goodrow
NYR 1st
NYR 2nd

We grab a RD in UFA who can play top 4 for a season or two and let Schneider push into that role after starting on the 3rd pair.

We can either try to trade Goodrow (with or without a sweetener) or keep him as a decent bottom 6 C.

The Rangers need a bit more pop from the back end, especially on the left side. They get that and a big young 4th line C who isn't working here.

Miller - Fox
Chychrun - Trouba

is a top 4 that could take a team a long way.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Ya, I don't think we need to be signing a guy for 3-3.5 to play on the 3rd pairing. Personally, no interest in Dumba in any other role.

In the right context, I don't think a fringe #4 playing in the bottom pair at 3.5M is that bad. Especially if it is a RHD.

Brannstrom makes 2M as a #6 undersized RHD. He will almost certainly be gone next year. 1M to 1.5M to upgrade him to Dumba is fine.

Then Chychrun is moved out and that 4.5M goes to Tanev or whoever they acquire to be the top 4 RHD.

I don't think building from the back end is the worst idea. We don't have any real ELC talent who can come in and help on defense. Maybe Kleven, but he is not a sure thing. It's a lot easier to find players who can be plugged into the top 10 or so forward spots than it is to fine players who can fill the top 6D.

I'm not saying it's easy to find forwards, but it's a lot more likely to find a journey man or have a prospect exceed expectations as a third line winger than a #4-5D. Defense depth can get tested very quickly in a season.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

In the right context, I don't think a fringe #4 playing in the bottom pair at 3.5M is that bad. Especially if it is a RHD.

Brannstrom makes 2M as a #6 undersized RHD. He will almost certainly be gone next year. 1M to 1.5M to upgrade him to Dumba is fine.

Then Chychrun is moved out and that 4.5M goes to Tanev or whoever they acquire to be the top 4 RHD.

I don't think building from the back end is the worst idea. We don't have any real ELC talent who can come in and help on defense. Maybe Kleven, but he is not a sure thing. It's a lot easier to find players who can be plugged into the top 10 or so forward spots than it is to fine players who can fill the top 6D.

I'm not saying it's easy to find forwards, but it's a lot more likely to find a journey man or have a prospect exceed expectations as a third line winger than a #4-5D. Defense depth can get tested very quickly in a season.

I don't love it, personally. Brannstrom's salary is more of the ceiling I'd like down there on the bottom pairing, but for the right guy, I might see it differently. Dumba is not that guy I'm drawn to for that role, nor do I think it's a priority before figuring out the route they go for guy #4. I'd prefer a higher end #4 like Weegar that might be more expensive and require us to go cheaper on bottom pairing. Going 3.5 on a 3rd pairing guy first limits those options.

 

[PlayersLtd]

A proposed solution the Chychrun/RD dilemma:

To NYR:
Chychrun
Kastelic

To Ottawa:
Schneider
Goodrow
NYR 1st
NYR 2nd

We grab a RD in UFA who can play top 4 for a season or two and let Schneider push into that role after starting on the 3rd pair.

We can either try to trade Goodrow (with or without a sweetener) or keep him as a decent bottom 6 C.

The Rangers need a bit more pop from the back end, especially on the left side. They get that and a big young 4th line C who isn't working here.

Miller - Fox
Chychrun - Trouba

is a top 4 that could take a team a long way.

I think Schneider is 100% the guy to target but I don't see how you get that return from NYR considering the market for him. Say Chychrun is worth the 1st and 2nd, that boils Schneider down to the value of the cap dump for Goodrow? (Kastelic has little to no value).

 

[Loach]

In the right context, I don't think a fringe #4 playing in the bottom pair at 3.5M is that bad. Especially if it is a RHD.

Brannstrom makes 2M as a #6 undersized RHD. He will almost certainly be gone next year. 1M to 1.5M to upgrade him to Dumba is fine.

Then Chychrun is moved out and that 4.5M goes to Tanev or whoever they acquire to be the top 4 RHD.

I don't think building from the back end is the worst idea. We don't have any real ELC talent who can come in and help on defense. Maybe Kleven, but he is not a sure thing. It's a lot easier to find players who can be plugged into the top 10 or so forward spots than it is to fine players who can fill the top 6D.

I'm not saying it's easy to find forwards, but it's a lot more likely to find a journey man or have a prospect exceed expectations as a third line winger than a #4-5D. Defense depth can get tested very quickly in a season.

The right context is if another team does it. Why people want to get the next Hamonic And overpay him?

 

[Loach]

I think Schneider is 100% the guy to target but I don't see how you get that return from NYR considering the market for him. Say Chychrun is worth the 1st and 2nd, that boils Schneider down to the value of the cap dump for Goodrow? (Kastelic has little to no value).

No. Schneider and the first is for Chychrun. The second is to take Goodrow. Kastelic is to make money or roster spots work.

 

[PlayersLtd]

No. Schneider and the first is for Chychrun. The second is to take Goodrow. Kastelic is to make money or roster spots work.

Okay, doesn't matter how you want to mix and match my point still stands. Schneider for Chychrun straight up doesn't get it done. No way you get a first thrown in.

 

[Loach]

Okay, doesn't matter how you want to mix and match my point still stands. Schneider for Chychrun straight up doesn't get it done. No way you get a first thrown in.

Ok. Whatever you say. Sell low if you want brother.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Ok. Whatever you say. Sell low if you want brother.

Wha? I'm just weighing in on the value proposition.

There is a thread on the Rumours board and Schneider's perceived value among Ranger fans far exceeds what is being tossed around here. They (armchair GM's like you or I) are looking for a Pinto or Greig type return and I personally think it is closer to that than it is to Chychrun.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I think Schneider is 100% the guy to target but I don't see how you get that return from NYR considering the market for him. Say Chychrun is worth the 1st and 2nd, that boils Schneider down to the value of the cap dump for Goodrow? (Kastelic has little to no value).

I think it was more Schnieder and a 2nd for CHychrun (a top line offensive D who is only 25 years old). The first is for taking Goodrow's contract.

I think the value is there. Schneider will not be a top 4 D for the Rangers for AT LEAST another 2 years, likely more. To get a 25 year old, 45 - 55 point D at 4.6 M you have give up a good chunk.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Wha? I'm just weighing in on the value proposition.

There is a thread on the Rumours board and Schneider's perceived value among Ranger fans far exceeds what is being tossed around here. They (armchair GM's like you or I) are looking for a Pinto or Greig type return and I personally think it is closer to that than it is to Chychrun.

Schneider appears to be a solid bottom pairing guy at age 22 with potential to develop into an impossible to acquire player - the top 4 shutdown RD.

Rangers have no need to trade him and they have no replacement RD in their system to replace him if they did, so they probably won't.

If they did they would absolutely ask for Greig/Pinto. Would be a fair swap for both sides, but everyone here wants to get without giving.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I think it was more Schnieder and a 2nd for CHychrun (a top line offensive D who is only 25 years old). The first is for taking Goodrow's contract.

I think the value is there. Schneider will not be a top 4 D for the Rangers for AT LEAST another 2 years, likely more. To get a 25 year old, 45 - 55 point D at 4.6 M you have give up a good chunk.

Consensus among Ranger fans is that Schneider is developing nicely at this point and, considering his age and curve likely has the value of a top 4 RHD with lots of runway before UFA. Regardless of his utilization in NYR the cost of that is the same premium that everyone is talking about for legit RHD, in other words- VERY HIGH. He would be a dream for the SENS, perfect target but I maintain that it would take closer to Pinto type value than it would Chychrun type value. Chychrun is probably worth a mid 1st, Schneider could be worth as much as two mid firsts imo.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Not sure anyone is taking him with that contract. And some of us were called crazy for saying he should be in the 6.5 range!

You have to hope he has a big year next year. But then why would we trad him? It’s a wierd situation. All the reason we would have to trade him are all the reasons someone else wouldn’t trade for him.

Personally. Meh. People are always try to wheel and deal to create this perfect hockey team with no holes and everyone is perfect in their role.

won’t happen. I wouldn’t take a hit to just get rid of him. Odds are we aren’t going to win a cup the way the league is currently structured anyway. It’s very hard for a Canadian team to win. He’s right with the group. Getting back from injury.

I right now I don’t think he looks that much worse than he did when he signed the 8. And now I think the same people that thought that was fair are looking to trade him? It’s wierd. But.

There's no room for a bargain with Norris at 8m. He's being paid for the absolute best version of himself. I was worried since he signed this deal, he killed it on the PP and got paid like it was a certainty that it was repeatable.

I'm a huge fan, so was happy he was signed. But with his deal, I'd be alright with moving on from him if a good trade was available.

 

[Loach]

Consensus among Ranger fans is that Schneider is developing nicely at this point and, considering his age and curve likely has the value of a top 4 RHD with lots of runway before UFA. Regardless of his utilization in NYR the cost of that is the same premium that everyone is talking about for legit RHD, in other words- VERY HIGH. He would be a dream for the SENS, perfect target but I maintain that it would take closer to Pinto type value than it would Chychrun type value. Chychrun is probably worth a mid 1st, Schneider could be worth as much as two mid firsts imo.

They have Trouba and Fox locked in, only Miller on the left and no cap space. Cap space is expensive.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Consensus among Ranger fans is that Schneider is developing nicely at this point and, considering his age and curve likely has the value of a top 4 RHD with lots of runway before UFA. Regardless of his utilization in NYR the cost of that is the same premium that everyone is talking about for legit RHD, in other words- VERY HIGH. He would be a dream for the SENS, perfect target but I maintain that it would take closer to Pinto type value than it would Chychrun type value. Chychrun is probably worth a mid 1st, Schneider could be worth as much as two mid firsts imo.

I mean Chychrun is only 3 years older than Schneider and is already a top 4 D (possibly top pairing). If the Rangers (not their fans) think that Schneider holds more value than Chych then they can beat it and Schneider can play behind Trouba and Fox for the next 4-5 years.

 

[aragorn]

Most teams going into the playoffs don't want to lose any roster players, especially guys who have helped them get there. Those teams are looking to trade picks/prospects for established UFA players or guys who can help them for more than this yr.

The NYR for example will likely dangle their 1st OA & maybe a prospect or two for Tarasenko or Chychrun, but they likely won't want to send an everyday player back that they have to replace this late in the season. I could see a Tarasenko for their 1st, he can improve their goals scoring, but I don't really see how Chychrun improves their team as much.

 

[Hale The Villain]

They have Trouba and Fox locked in, only Miller on the left and no cap space. Cap space is expensive.

They have Miller and Lindgren on the left, with Gustafsson and Jones as bottom pairing LD.

Chychrun could be a fit since Miller and Lindgren have struggled this year, but it's important to note they have no good RD in their system to replace Schneider.

I'm all for a deal based around Chychrun with 50% retention for Schneider, and I'm fine taking on Goodrow's contract for picks if he'd waive his NTC, but people need to temper their return expectations.

 

[DrEasy]

Chychrun for Karlsson in the off-season: which side says no?

 

[Loach]

They have Miller and Lindgren on the left, with Gustafsson and Jones as bottom pairing LD.

Chychrun could be a fit since Miller and Lindgren have struggled this year, but it's important to note they have no good RD in their system to replace Schneider.

I'm all for a deal based around Chychrun with 50% retention for Schneider, and I'm fine taking on Goodrow's contract for picks if he'd waive his NTC, but people need to temper their return expectations.

I'm not tempering anything. The days of what did you expect, it was the best offer Dorion days are done. Bring a 3rd party if need be, we should get paid.

 

[UglyPuckling]

In the right context, I don't think a fringe #4 playing in the bottom pair at 3.5M is that bad. Especially if it is a RHD.

Brannstrom makes 2M as a #6 undersized RHD. He will almost certainly be gone next year. 1M to 1.5M to upgrade him to Dumba is fine.

Then Chychrun is moved out and that 4.5M goes to Tanev or whoever they acquire to be the top 4 RHD.

I don't think building from the back end is the worst idea. We don't have any real ELC talent who can come in and help on defense. Maybe Kleven, but he is not a sure thing. It's a lot easier to find players who can be plugged into the top 10 or so forward spots than it is to fine players who can fill the top 6D.

I'm not saying it's easy to find forwards, but it's a lot more likely to find a journey man or have a prospect exceed expectations as a third line winger than a #4-5D. Defense depth can get tested very quickly in a season.

Discussions of this ilk are conceptual (or abstract) until you put an entire roster with salaries together. There's also a need for a top 6 (or top 9 maybe) winger (or re-sign Tarasenko) and Pinto will need a new contract.

 

[PlayersLtd]

They have Trouba and Fox locked in, only Miller on the left and no cap space. Cap space is expensive.

Maybe I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Let's suppose it's true that the Rangers don't need Schneider, that has nothing to do with his value on the open market. Zero.

If I have a Ferrari, a Porsche and a Mercedes in the driveway does the fact that I own the Ferrari and Porsche have any bearing on the value of the Mercedes if I decided to sell it? Of course not, the value is set by the market willing to buy it, not by the usefulness of the car to the person selling it.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I mean Chychrun is only 3 years older than Schneider and is already a top 4 D (possibly top pairing). If the Rangers (not their fans) think that Schneider holds more value than Chych then they can beat it and Schneider can play behind Trouba and Fox for the next 4-5 years.

Or they can just sell him to the next team that is willing to pay more. SS isn't in a position to tell the Rangers to beat it like that is some sort of threat, they tell us to beat it since we're the one losing out on the bigger need.

The three years of age is irrelevant, it's the + - 5 years of control of Schneider vs the 1 year of Chychrun. That has massive value.

 

[HSF]

why get more picks? We already have two 1sts....If we get another for Senko (unlikely) we should be looking to trade one to get a legit player to help the top 4 D.

I don't think getting another young player is the way to go. Get a vet who can still play. Doesn't have to be a sexy name

 

[bert]

Tarasenko at 50% JBD and a 4th 2024 for Schneider and Goodrow let's see it Staios.

why get more picks? We already have two 1sts....If we get another for Senko (unlikely) we should be looking to trade one to get a legit player to help the top 4 D.

I don't think getting another young player is the way to go. Get a vet who can still play. Doesn't have to be a sexy name

A. They need more picks for sure.

B. Getting a good young player to build with this teams young core would be great. Especially if it's a RD.

They aren't close to contending the roster is flawed and this teams 4 of its best 5 players (excluding Giroux) are 22 and under. They need to retool and build around them.

Next year this is what I'd like to see. The deal right now around Tar what I suggested. If anyone will give this team anything for Kubalik or Brannstrom great if not let them walk.

Make a decision now on Chychrun and Chabot. I'm leaning towards trading chychrun because he has way more value due to age flexibility and contract even tho I prefer him to Chabot. I really don't know, tough spot for the organization. If Chychrun won't sign they gotta find out and do it now. But personally I like him more.

Let's just assume they get some futures for whoever they deal.

Buy out Korpisalo.

Sign Brossoit 2 years 4.5 million.

Sign Tanev in the offseason.

This is just for the depth chart. First of all I'm moving Norris to LW he's the shooter.

Tkachuk Stutzle Giroux
Norris Pinto Batherson
Joseph Grieg Crookshank
Goodrow Kastelic Kelly
Macewen

Sanderson Zub
Chabot/Chychrun Tanev
Kleven Schneider
Hamonic

Brossoit
Forsberg

That's a real back end that's large physical and mobile. Hopefully a forward group with no passengers. I'd like another two way, hard, fast skilled guy up front maybe they can sign one or trade for one in the Chychrun/Chabot deal or with the assets they get for trading one of them.

But overall that's a team that can play with an identity.