I was does Philly do that and why does Carolina do that.
Yes I think every sens fan would love that tarasenko for Pesce deal
Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5
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dumbdick
Galactic Defender
- May 31, 2008
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Did you read my later post about flipping tavares at 50% for another first?
Would you do norris, chych (and some dead cap for 1 year) for 3 firsts and knies?
Thats where i was going with it.
Its all moot anyway since JT has an NMC.
No I don’t think I would. Those late first may never play a game in the NHL. Let alone be top 6 or top 4 d men.
Yea our cupboard is bare at the moment but we don’t need 3 more firsts to restock.
dumbdick
Galactic Defender
- May 31, 2008
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I would totally do those deals.
Gives us 3 firsts, knies to replace Norris, and about $5M in cash savings to replace Chych in free agency.
We'd get worse for one year but we'd be way better off after that.
Dan Patrick
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2020
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I hope Winnipeg didn’t give up anything good for Monahan
Edit: 1st and conditional pick. Still kind of gross.
Edit: 1st and conditional pick. Still kind of gross.
lol I have theory that these deals are made so that the rich teams will help out other teams under the table when the time comes. Remember Toronto was in a jam and they got a first for kapanen.
Chiarot deal for Montreal.
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2013
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Dan Patrick
Registered User
- Mar 11, 2020
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That bodes well for Ottawa should they decide to trade Tarasenko, who is better at everything.
Perfect. Tank is the best forward on the market now. Lets gooooo
Joeyjoejoe
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2015
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We couldn’t even get a 1st rounder for Mark Stone .
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
That show you how handicapped the Sens were under Melnyk.
We lost picks to add players we can afford, and couldn't capitalize on our cap space during one of the best times in league history to do so.
Excellent move by Montreal.
We lost picks to add players we can afford, and couldn't capitalize on our cap space during one of the best times in league history to do so.
Excellent move by Montreal.
Montreal will send them a couple million to bankroll operations next year
Well what could the Sens do for teams off the ice? Nothing. We were broke.
Hope we get a 1st pick for him
Colorado could be a good fit for him, they need offense on their top6, even more after Canucks and Jets trades
lol how. Teams will pay a first for Monahan as a rental at the end of his career. But won’t pay a first for mark stone in his prime ( even as a rental). It has to do with melnyk and cash. But not in the way you think
Wondercarrot
By The Power of Canadian Tire Centre
- Jul 2, 2002
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We wouldn’t be able to get shitty players for firsts and then flip out the same shitty players for more first lol.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
They were willing to give up a 1st, but they weren't willing to pay more than your typical rental prices of a 1st and a few B or C prospects. If I recall, one of the prospects they put on the table was Nick Petan. Which would be like us putting Sokolov of Thomson on the table last year for a rental.
Teams didn't want to give up a major piece for Stone without an extension. Vegas was the only team willing to give up something close to a real top prospect. Brannstrom was maybe a top 20 prospect in the league at the time.
They should have traded Mark Stone at the previous trade deadline, or in the summer with an extension. They didn't want to do a full teardown for numerous reasons. First, ticket sales cratered because of how much Melnyk had hurt the image of the team. Rebuilds are usually difficult at the box office, but this would have been a completely different level. They thought they had to lie to the fans about it being a re-tool where they intended to keep all the big stars unless they didn't want to stay. They couldn't trade Stone or Duchene in the summer, because they had to dupe however many marks they could into renewing their season tickets.
Additionally, Papa Tkachuk went on record about how he was concerned over Brady signing with Ottawa and being left out to dry with no one to play with. Had our team not been such a shit show, maybe we could have let him go back to College for a few years and not worried about him walking.
Lastly, they didn't have their 1st and they needed to avoid the marketing hazard of handing Colorado Jack Hughes. Of course, they failed at that since they ended up giving Colorado the best odds at drafting him anyways. It was just luck that saved them.
I don't blame teams for not wanting to give up a major piece for Stone. If we were in a playoff spot, would you want to give up Pinto+1st+ for a rental? Even a franchise player? Especially if you're a Winnipeg or Calgary who isn't a prime destination. Teams generally don't go above a 1st and their 4th or worst best prospects for a rental. Maybe there are conditional picks. With that said, it's funny how if I recall some of the pieces talked about were players like Roslovic, who amounted to very little relative to their standing at the time.
Even know Vegas fleeced Ottawa, Brannstrom at the time was a legitimate top 10 talent prospect. We should have gotten more, but we didn't have the leverage to wait and say no. Our second best offer was Beauvillier and a pick, which may not have been a 1st. We had to move him by the TDL.
So they won’t give up a 1st + for mark stone as a rental. But they’ll give up a 1st + for Monahan as essentially a rental. Cuz he’s at the very end of his career. GMs are dumb or there’s behind the scenes stuff that goes on. I think it’s both
I do believe that perception plays a massive role with GMs. “What a first + with no extension for this play in his prime?! And then he might leave for another team?!?”
And “wow only a first + for this old ass dude who can help us make a run (won’t help them make a run) and we don’t have to sign him? Thats easy”
Mtl also had to trade Monohan by the TDL lol.
They think they’d look dumber if they traded for a guy they couldn’t re-sign vs a guy that was just going to retire but who is also much much worse
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Loach
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2021
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We could!
The League knew EM and Dorion. That's all there is to it.
The league knew we had no cash. So down the road we wouldn’t be able to help them out. That’s all there is to it
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
Sens wanted a legitimate top prospect for Stone. They wanted something like two 1sts (one guaranteed, one conditional on Stone re-signing) and 1-2 1st round tier prospects or one blue chip prospect. In 99/100 situations, no team was going to pay this for a rental.
The point of contention was that the Senators wanted more than what rentals ever go for. It was their own fault for putting themselves in that position where Stone was being shopped at the deadline. Vegas took advantage of the leverage they had over Ottawa because Ottawa couldn't say no, they had to say yes to someone. Even the Coyotes had the good sense to move Hall earlier in the season.
If the Islanders package did not have a 1st, it was package Beauvillier was in the package.
Teams were absolutely willing to give up a playoff 1st and a couple of B or C prospects like Petan for Stone. Again, the issue was that Dorion needed to get a legitimate top prospect who would figure into the rebuild for the next decade. If the Islanders package didn't have a 1st, it was likely because Beauvillier was above what teams usually give up for rentals. He was a 1st round pick from a few years earlier who was on pace for 20 goals in his rookie season. It would be like us trading Greig instead of a 1st. That's better than a late 1st.
Senator Stanley
Registered User
- Dec 11, 2003
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Not to take focus away from Melnyk and Dorion and how awful they were, but I'm sure Dorion could have gotten a 1st for Stone. He just valued Brannstrom - who was at his peak value - more highly.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
Ultimately, bringing up Stone is so far out of left-field in relation to Monahan.
Seeing teams like the Coyotes, Blackhawks, and Canadiens accrue a wealth of assets rebuilding during a similar time period to the Senators is a very tough pill to swallow. The Melnyk issues weren't just budget issues. The Coyotes are also a budget team. Melnyk had harmed the team so much, and they were in such a toxic position, that they had to burn assets (or hold on to assets for too long) to try to be competitive in year 1 of a rebuild even if it was completely misguided.
Seeing teams like the Coyotes, Blackhawks, and Canadiens accrue a wealth of assets rebuilding during a similar time period to the Senators is a very tough pill to swallow. The Melnyk issues weren't just budget issues. The Coyotes are also a budget team. Melnyk had harmed the team so much, and they were in such a toxic position, that they had to burn assets (or hold on to assets for too long) to try to be competitive in year 1 of a rebuild even if it was completely misguided.
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