GDT: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 3

[BondraTime]

It would be insane if the team were punished with loss of draft picks.

There would have to be some shockingly bad behaviour on the part of the sens for that to make any sense.

Chicago got caught red handed actively covering up the sexual assault of one of its players and didn’t lose a pick.

Arizona lost a 1st round pick 2 years ago for fitness testing prospects in the summer.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Does a suspension even open up salary cap? I don't think you get relief but I could be mistaken

we dont kno yet. Its going to be a special kind of suspension guilty players will get. I would assume the NHL would allow teams to have the cap space as some form of reconciliation for the loss of talent from their roster(s)

 

[Bileur]

Arizona lost a 1st round pick 2 years ago for fitness testing prospects in the summer.

I’m well aware, if anything it confirms the NHL’s approach.

One situation is tweaking Gary’s nose and making a mockery of his rules.

The other is something the league has shown no interest in addressing.

 

[Laphroaig]

Paul Byron may or may not attempt to continue his career after recovering from hip surgery. If he decides that he wants to play I'd like to see the Sens offer him a PTO. If he can still skate like he did pre-surgery he'd be a nice addition to our bottom six.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

On Dorian’s last TV interview he alluded to something he “has to do next”. I thought that might be a comment about a move to open up cap space for signing Pinto and getting cap compliant, but I guess it could be related to an incoming suspension?

It would be so Sens to get stomped on again. That old “we can’t have nice things” feeling.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Maybe if we lose a 1st round pick we can offer up #10 in the 2021 draft.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

On Dorian’s last TV interview he alluded to something he “has to do next”. I thought that might be a comment about a move to open up cap space for signing Pinto and getting cap compliant, but I guess it could be related to an incoming suspension?

It would be so Sens to get stomped on again. That old “we can’t have nice things” feeling.

Happens so often we should be immune to pain.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I heard from a friend of mine. Could be nothing. If what I hear is true it should come out very very soon. I could be wrong too. But I hear there will punishments to the franchise too.


Unfortunately not. I have specifics on games and punishment but I’ll refrain until I see the official statement come out.

So you will wait until everything comes out, and then confirm whether or not you were correct?

You sure are going out on a limb there!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Hope I’m wrong trust me. Losing a 1st/2nd and formenton (he’s gone I hear. Prob won’t play for us again) and bath for a chunk of the season isn’t good either. I hope I’m wrong. Just passing on info.

I don't see that kind of punishment happening.

If we do get hit like that after what Chicago got away with (and rewarded with the next league icon) then I am done with the NHL entirely.

 

[BondraTime]

I’m well aware, if anything it confirms the NHL’s approach.

One situation is tweaking Gary’s nose and making a mockery of his rules.

The other is something the league has shown no interest in addressing.

You said there would have to be shockingly bad behavior on part of the Sens to lose a pick, and showed how Chicago never lost one despite what they had done.

Arizona lost a 1st, and was in no way comparable to what the Hawks did, it wasn't shockingly bad behaviour.

If it's something that goes against the CBA, or is found in real time, it will likely result in a penalty.

I don't think that's happening, because the scenario makes zero sense to me

 

[Bileur]

You said there would have to be shockingly bad behavior on part of the Sens to lose a pick, and showed how Chicago never lost one despite what they had done.

Arizona lost a 1st, and was in no way comparable to what the Hawks did, it wasn't shockingly bad behaviour.

If it's something that goes against the CBA, or is found in real time, it will likely result in a penalty.

I don't think that's happening, because the scenario makes zero sense to me

Exactly, it would have to be shockingly, egregiously bad behaviour (eg even worse than the Hawks) for the league to come down harder on the sens than they did the hawks.

I agree with you about the scenario making zero sense. I can’t imagine the sens doing much to get involved here let alone going out of their way to do something so bad that it would attract consequences from the league.

On top of that, I’d imagine the league would do all they can to avoid slamming their brand new owner with that kind of penalty.

Arizona is an easier situation to punish because it’s (1) a simple situation; (2) right in the league’s wheelhouse.

 

[BondraTime]

Exactly, it would have to be shockingly, egregiously bad behaviour (eg even worse than the Hawks) for the league to come down harder on the sens than they did the hawks.

I agree with you about the scenario making zero sense. I can’t imagine the sens doing much to get involved here let alone going out of their way to do something so bad that it would attract consequences from the league.

On top of that, I’d imagine the league would do all they can to avoid slamming their brand new owner with that kind of penalty.

Arizona is an easier situation to punish because it’s (1) a simple situation; (2) right in the league’s wheelhouse.

Yes, which is exactly where this situation with the Sens would be. Happening in real time, and in the leagues wheelhouse. Interfering in the investigation in any way shape or form, which I really, really doubt happened, would absolutely garner punishment in the form of a draft pick.

The Hawks weren’t penalized mainly because it was something that occurred 15ish years ago that never came to light until recently. If that was found in real time, you can bet they’d have received worse penalties, because it’s one of the worst incidents in the sport. Monetary punishment, along with all the firings and departures, made the most sense, while being an incredibly, embarrassingly, light punishment.

 

[bert]

Keep in mind the suspensions could go beyond just who is charged. Players even peripherally involved could be suspended under the personal conduct policy.

That's a pretty absurd concept to suspend someone that walked away from a bad situation once they saw what was happening. Especially as a 19 year old teenager that's is pretty green. There is nothing illegal or wrong about that.

 

[BrawlFan]

So you will wait until everything comes out, and then confirm whether or not you were correct?

You sure are going out on a limb there!

Yeah buddy. I hear you on it. I’m not here to try and get the clout of being an insider. Just passing on info. I think the fact that I heard we will lose a pick lends credence to whether I’m right or wrong but ultimately it’s your call.

I have no accounts or products to promote. If you feel that I’m full of it then you are free to do so. I just don’t want to relay information and attaching any significance to it without seeing the quality of the source first. That’s my approach.

 

[Xspyrit]

The smartest thing to get cap compliant would be to trade Kubalik for a pick instead of paying anything to move Joseph's contract

All these guys need PP time :

Thomas Chabot, Jakob Chychrun, Jake Sanderson, Erik Brannstrom, Tim Stutzle, Claude Giroux, Brady Tkachuk, Josh Norris, Drake Batherson, Vladimir Tarasenko, Dominik Kubalik, Shane Pinto and Ridly Greig

13 guys, 10 spots

Joseph plays a big role on the PK and... here's a comparison I made between the 2 players :


Kubalik is a pretty decent offensive player but look at the other Sens players, there won't be a lot of PP time available... Kubalik scored 17 of his 45 pts on the PP last season

Over the last 2 years, Kubalik has 51 ESP despite only missing 5 games. Joseph has 45 ES + PK pts despite missing 39 games...

So Joseph has a better scoring rate at ES (1.58 pts per 60 ES minutes vs 1.53 for Kubalik), is quite better defensively and is a TOP PK forward in the NHL.

What was Ottawa's weakness last season? 5v5, they finished 25th in GF%

Kubalik's contract (1 year vs 2.5 AAV) makes him attractive and would return a decent pick while clearing 2.5 AAV

Joseph's is a cap casualty (3 years vs 2.95 AAV) and would cost a decent pick to move

Plus, Kubalik will want a pretty significant raise if he puts good numbers in Ottawa... something that we won't be able to afford (as we might go after a bigger fish if Tarasenko is not kept) or want (risky contract for Kubalik?)

I know which guy I want traded. Ideally I'd want both but we still have so much dead money, no choice.

 

[Qward]

Lets wait until the report is released and consequences are handed out before making anymore moves.

 

[Mingus Dew]

That's a pretty absurd concept to suspend someone that walked away from a bad situation once they saw what was happening. Especially as a 19 year old teenager that's is pretty green. There is nothing illegal or wrong about that.

Certainly nothing illegal. You don’t have a legal duty to intercede in a crime or to save someone’s life.

Wrong? More nuance there. Would hope that a young man that sees something bad like that going down, with his friends involved no less, would at the very least say something.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Certainly nothing illegal. You don’t have a legal duty to intercede in a crime or to save someone’s life.

Wrong? More nuance there. Would hope that a young man that sees something bad like that going down, with his friends involved no less, would at the very least say something.

It’s not like there were flashing neon lights that said “sexual assault: ongoing”. Not to mention, we have no idea what the level of cooperation was for each individual player. In fact, Im pretty sure it’s been said that a player who witnessed it cooperated with police.

I suspect if you were in the same situation, things would be a whole lot less clear than they are to you right now.

 

[Mingus Dew]

It’s not like there were flashing neon lights that said “sexual assault: ongoing”. Not to mention, we have no idea what the level of cooperation was for each individual player. In fact, Im pretty sure it’s been said that a player who witnessed it cooperated with police.

I suspect if you were in the same situation, things would be a whole lot less clear than they are to you right now.

Of course all true. Just saying not going to pass judgement on whether someone acted rightly or wrongly until we have details.

Distinct possibility that someone could have seen what was happening and thought it consensual but not for them and so they left.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

That's a pretty absurd concept to suspend someone that walked away from a bad situation once they saw what was happening. Especially as a 19 year old teenager that's is pretty green. There is nothing illegal or wrong about that.

Agreed. I would think that the player would have had to walk out but also have been caught lying to league, and/or law enforcement, investigators in order to incur a suspension.

 

[GCK]

Certainly nothing illegal. You don’t have a legal duty to intercede in a crime or to save someone’s life.

Wrong? More nuance there. Would hope that a young man that sees something bad like that going down, with his friends involved no less, would at the very least say something.

Expecting 19 year olds to stand up to a group of their peers is asking a lot. Now add in that they were likely hammered and it’s asking the impossible. I get the feeling you don’t remember being 19.

 

[Icelevel]

Expecting 19 year olds to stand up to a group of their peers is asking a lot. Now add in that they were likely hammered and it’s asking the impossible. I get the feeling you don’t remember being 19.

Unfortunately true.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Expecting 19 year olds to stand up to a group of their peers is asking a lot. Now add in that they were likely hammered and it’s asking the impossible. I get the feeling you don’t remember being 19.

We can hold them to a bit higher standard than that lol. More boys will be boys narrative and I think that’s dangerous.

Who knows what happened. But if a 19 year old sees their friends raping someone they should do something about it.

Yeah it’s been a while since I was that age but seriously?

 

[bert]

We can hold them to a bit higher standard than that lol. More boys will be boys narrative and I think that’s dangerous.

Who knows what happened. But if a 19 year old sees their friends raping someone they should do something about it.

Yeah it’s been a while since I was that age but seriously?

You have assumed a scenario now that no one actually knows what happened. There was group sex yes but rape we don't know or at what stage that behavior occurred either. Holding someone to a make believe standard then ruining their lives when they chose not to participate in something you have no clue about is absurd. When you play a team sport at this level there is loyalty and sacrifice you make for your teammates who you see every day. Then you expect them to go behind their backs and tell on them for something you don't even know what they witnessed. Get off your altruistic high horse for a minute and try and execute some actual humanity. The standard you think you are setting right now isn't as heroic as you may actually think.

These are 19 year Olds.... You're just starting to learn what it means to be an adult. I am sure if they witnessed something like rape that they would take it back and do it over again and acted on it. But destroying their lives over something that happened that long ago when they were teenagers because they didn't go to the police or told on their teamates. That's doing more damage than there has already been done. There's a butterfly effect on the people they care about as well. The guilt is likely eating them up inside as well.

You're talking about a very slippery slope in society now. The law is there for a reason a true rule book for people to follow. You're talking about enacting a societal moral code based on your own personal feelings. We going to start going back in time and punishing every single person that witnessed a crime but didn't act how the moral code of the future says they should have? You might have some skeletons in your closet. You saw your friend drive drunk in 2008 there was no accident but it wasn't safe. Should you lose your licence?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This team is absolutely about to crumble. I suspect new rebuild started by 26/27