Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[kb]

I know that this is ridiculously outside of reality... but I couldn't sleep


So.... https://www.bardown.com/pavel-datsy...eyev-to-play-for-babcock-in-toronto-1.1301586

The Toronto Star’s Kevin McGran revealed after the signing that it was Babcock’s old player in Detroit, Pavel Datsyuk, who had a hand in convincing Mikheyev to play for Babcock. Datsyuk announced last week that he will not be returning to the KHL’s SKA St. Petersburg next season.


Trades

TOR

1. 2019 2nd round pick (EDM)

EDM

1. Brown, Connor

TOR

1. 2021 7th round pick (SJS)

SJS

1. Marleau, Patrick

TOR

1. 2019 7th round pick (DET)

DET

1. Zaitsev, Nikita

TOR

1. Hjalmarsson, Niklas
2. Crouse, Lawson [RFA Rights]

ARI

1. Kadri, Nazem

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$84,000,000	$80,761,366	$0	$265,000	$3,238,634

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 6	Marner, Mitchell $10,000,000 RW RFA
Johnsson, Andreas $3,000,000 LW RFA	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, C UFA - 5
Kapanen, Kasperi $3,000,000 RW RFA	Datsyuk, Pavel $925,000	Mikheyev, Ilya $925,000
Korshkov, Yegor $925,000	Gauthier, Frédérik $675,000 C RFA - 1	Engvall, Pierre $925,000 LW, RW RFA - 1
Moore, Trevor $775,000 RW, LW RFA - 2	Marchment, Mason $767,500 LW RFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 D UFA - 3	Hjalmarsson, Niklas $5,000,000 D NMC UFA - 2	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Muzzin, Jake $4,000,000 D UFA - 1	Strålman, Anton $3,000,000 D UFA	Sparks, Garret $750,000 G UFA - 1
Dermott, Travis $863,333 D RFA - 1	Rosén, Calle $750,000 D UFA - 2
Holl, Justin $675,000 D UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Where did Crouse go?

 

[kindalaidback]

1) I’d rather have the worst defense in the entire league than to trade Nylander and Kadri and have Marleau center the third line when he’s had trouble on the wing.

2) This team has zero organizational center depth. So who’s gonna play #3C in case we need one? What if we lose one of Tavares or Matthews? Marleau would be the #2 center on this team. I’d rather not want this to happen.

3) I’m fine with trading Kadri if the Leafs get a guy in return who can center the third line without any question (to those who say “but Nylander”— Babcock already said he wants him on the wing).

 

[Rielly4]

The question comes down to;

Do you move a soon to be 29 year old, who's numbers appear to be declining, or the 23 year old (Nylander) to get the RHD, if such a trade is even available? It's a tough call, and you could make arguments either way.

No chance i trade Nylander...Maybe way down the line if its absolutely necessary. But he has superstar level talent and should not be moved...Especially while his value is at an all time low. Its not like moving Kadri or Nylander is our only option...We have plenty of winger depth that we could move for help on D. Its also a lot easier to add extra winger depth than it is to add C depth or D depth. AJ+Kap+Brown could land us a pretty darn good d man.

 

[Fogelhund]

Where did Crouse go?

I guess I traded for him, and then forgot to sign him. LOL

 

[Al14]

No chance i trade Nylander...Maybe way down the line if its absolutely necessary. But he has superstar level talent and should not be moved...Especially while his value is at an all time low. Its not like moving Kadri or Nylander is our only option...We have plenty of winger depth that we could move for help on D. Its also a lot easier to add extra winger depth than it is to add C depth or D depth. AJ+Kap+Brown could land us a pretty darn good d man.

That superstar level talent had 7 goals and 20 assists since returning from his holdout. Hardly superstar production!

Incoming excuses in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Fogelhund]

That superstar level talent had 7 goals and 20 assists since returning from his holdout. Hardly superstar production!

Incoming excuses in 3... 2... 1...

I think you just proved his point.

 

[rumman]

This may be the first time I've ever agreed with you.

lucky me, I'm going to buy a lottery ticket.

 

[Al14]

I think you just proved his point.

How exactly?

 

[Rielly4]

How exactly?

The "his value is at an all time low" part...You know selling an asset on its low point. You are a victim of recency bias. Nylander didnt have a good half season but lots of great players have had bad seasons.

The excuses you were expecting:

a.) He obviously was out of shape for the first 1.5 months.
b.) He rarely played with Matthews and in the playoffs he played with our 2 worst forwards. (edit: excluding GOAT)
c.) He was on the 2nd powerplay unit that was absolutely horrible giving him very little special teams points.
d.) All his underlying stats (CF% xGF%) were very strong he just didnt get the results. Those stats are used to help predict when a player is under performing and when it is bound to turn around.

 

[MyBudJT]

An Ekblad trade similar to our Kessel one could be intriguing...

To FLA:
Nylander
Johnsson
Pick

To TOR:
Ekblad (1.5M AAV retained).

Sign Sheahan
Trade Brown for a pick

To Start the season with Hyman probably out:

 

[Al14]

The "his value is at an all time low" part...You know selling an asset on its low point. You are a victim of recency bias. Nylander didnt have a good season but lots of great players have had bad seasons.

The excuses you were expecting:

a.) He obviously was out of shape for the first 1.5 months.
b.) He rarely played with Matthews and in the playoffs he played with our 2 worst forwards. (edit: excluding GOAT)
c.) He was on the 2nd powerplay unit that was absolutely horrible giving him very little special teams points.
d.) All his underlying stats (CF% xGF%) were very strong he just didnt get the results. Those stats are used to help predict when a player is under performing and when it is bound to turn around.

Yes, his value is lower at the moment, however, if he continues to flounder again next season, his value will bottom out. Trading him this offseason avoids that, while allowing the recieving team to continue to think he'll bounce back with them.

Now, it sure to hell doesn't take a modern day athlete a month and a half to get into game shape. That is a ridiculous excuse IMHO.

A 33 year old Shea Weber returned from surgery, to repair an injury to tendons in his left foot, after a six month recovery. It looked like he didn't miss a beat scoring 14 goals and 19 assists with the same number of games as Nylander. So, how does a 33 year old outperform a player 10 years younger?

If it takes playing with Matthews to perform, then, IMHO, Nylander is not worth his salary. At his salary, he should be able to drive a line by himself. It was Daddy and his agent that wanted Nylander to be paid as a 2nd line centre, so, it was up to Nylander himself to prove he could at least drive a 3rd line. The Kadri suspension gave him that opportunity, and, he failed IMHO.

If Dubas keeps Nylander, let's hope he returns to being at least a 20 goal, 40 assist player next season. If he doesn't do that, it'll kill his value in future trade scenarios for sure.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yes, his value is lower at the moment, however, if he continues to flounder again next season, his value will bottom out. Trading him this offseason avoids that, while allowing the recieving team to continue to think he'll bounce back with them.

Now, it sure to hell doesn't take a modern day athlete a month and a half to get into game shape. That is a ridiculous excuse IMHO.

A 33 year old Shea Weber returned from surgery, to repair an injury to tendons in his left foot, after a six month recovery. It looked like he didn't miss a beat scoring 14 goals and 19 assists with the same number of games as Nylander. So, how does a 33 year old outperform a player 10 years younger?

If it takes playing with Matthews to perform, then, IMHO, Nylander is not worth his salary. At his salary, he should be able to drive a line by himself. It was Daddy and his agent that wanted Nylander to be paid as a 2nd line centre, so, it was up to Nylander himself to prove he could at least drive a 3rd line. The Kadri suspension gave him that opportunity, and, he failed IMHO.

If Dubas keeps Nylander, let's hope he returns to being at least a 20 goal, 40 assist player next season. If he doesn't do that, it'll kill his value in future trade scenarios for sure.

1. You want a list of players who underperformed after sitting out, or injury? It's long....
2. Yes, I'd agree with you. Nylander isn't the top tier guy, who pulls up everyone to play much better. That being said, nearly all players will be better, when they have someone of quality to play with. But, Nylander isn't paid like an Elite forward, he got $6.9, while the elite guys will be getting $8.5-$10 this year... similar age, wingers, RFA.... Sticker shock that a very good secondary winger, gets $6.9, but that's just where things are now.
3. Nylander performed at a 60 point per season pace last year, during the last few months... I have no doubts he will be that guy again next season, starting on time.
4. If we have the opportunity to bring in a top quality RHD, and he's the cost, I'll drive him to the airport.... though I think it makes sense to move the guy knocking on thirty more... but the other team might not want Kadri.

 

[Al14]

1. You want a list of players who underperformed after sitting out, or injury? It's long....
2. Yes, I'd agree with you. Nylander isn't the top tier guy, who pulls up everyone to play much better. That being said, nearly all players will be better, when they have someone of quality to play with. But, Nylander isn't paid like an Elite forward, he got $6.9, while the elite guys will be getting $8.5-$10 this year... similar age, wingers, RFA.... Sticker shock that a very good secondary winger, gets $6.9, but that's just where things are now.
3. Nylander performed at a 60 point per season pace last year, during the last few months... I have no doubts he will be that guy again next season, starting on time.
4. If we have the opportunity to bring in a top quality RHD, and he's the cost, I'll drive him to the airport.... though I think it makes sense to move the guy knocking on thirty more... but the other team might not want Kadri.

if $6.9M isn't elite money!

Maybe, that's chump change in a couple of seasons, but right now, that's elite money!

JMHO.

 

[Fogelhund]

if $6.9M isn't elite money!

Maybe, that's chump change in a couple of seasons, but right now, that's elite money!

JMHO.

I believe we are going to see that Ratanen, Point, Marner guys all get $9 million and more. That's where the Elite level contracts will be this offseason, putting what Nylander got into perspective.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I believe we are going to see that Ratanen, Point, Marner guys all get $9 million and more. That's where the Elite level contracts will be this offseason, putting what Nylander got into perspective.

wouldn't we all be happy to see Marner get something that starts with a $9 at this point? That's where he should be on an 8 year deal given the comps (Kucherov, Stone, etc) but the buzz seems to be much higher than that

 

[Fogelhund]

wouldn't we all be happy to see Marner get something that starts with a $9 at this point? That's where he should be on an 8 year deal given the comps (Kucherov, Stone, etc) but the buzz seems to be much higher than that

We'd be thrilled if that is what we signed Marner for.... and the point being, that's the price for Elite, but not superstar forwards... guys making $6.9 are a step below that... suggesting Nylander was well paid, but not Elite level paid.

 

[Randy Randerson]

We'd be thrilled if that is what we signed Marner for.... and the point being, that's the price for Elite, but not superstar forwards... guys making $6.9 are a step below that... suggesting Nylander was well paid, but not Elite level paid.

this seems like a difference in how you guys are titling your categories, Nylander is paid like a 1st liner for sure but not like a franchise level player. Hell, he'll be our 4th highest paid guy

 

[pspot]

I believe we are going to see that Ratanen, Point, Marner guys all get $9 million and more. That's where the Elite level contracts will be this offseason, putting what Nylander got into perspective.

Depends where you live
9 in tb does not equal 9 in TO after taxes

It's an issue

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Heard a good one at lunch. Wings are going to go after Point from Tampa. Seems Tampa can't get over paying someone more than Kuch. Steve Y thinks he is best player on Tampa. Should be interesting to see if Tampa can get closer to 12M per for Point. maybe we will see the first serious offer sheet in years here.

 

[RAM]

Depends where you live
9 in tb does not equal 9 in TO after taxes

It's an issue

Being paid in us dollars gives every Canadian team a 40% advantage that should make up any tax discrepancy

 

[IBeL34f]

if $6.9M isn't elite money!

Maybe, that's chump change in a couple of seasons, but right now, that's elite money!

JMHO.

$6.9M is no longer elite money.

JVR makes $7M.
Pacioretty makes $7M.

 

[ACC1224]

$6.9M is no longer elite money.

JVR makes $7M.
Pacioretty makes $7M.

Is there no longer a difference between UFA and RFA?

 

[Menzinger]

Is there no longer a difference between UFA and RFA?

Less and less so.

Why there are now more and more f top rfa contracts in that 8 .5-12.5 mil range.

5-8 mil is that 2nd tier of rfa contracts in the current salary structure landscape

 

[Fogelhund]

Being paid in us dollars gives every Canadian team a 40% advantage that should make up any tax discrepancy

No.

 

[Al14]

$6.9M is no longer elite money.

JVR makes $7M.
Pacioretty makes $7M.

JvR - 27 goals and 21 assists in 66 games played.
Pacioretty - 22 goals and 18 assists in 66 games played.
Nylander - 7 goals and 20 assists in 54 games played.

So, yeah, not elite money, I guess, however, 2 of the 3 scrubs produced more for the scrub money they got payed!