GDT: Four Nations Tournament - Part 2 - USA vs Canada , 8pm ET - ABC, ESPN+

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Matthews has been ass but Hughes wanted to part of the puck being his problem last night.

Threw it away the second it touched his stick almost every time the had it. I don't see how that has anything to do with what position he's playing or who he's playing with.
Ranger fans have watched Hughes enough to know he’s at his best when he has the puck on his stick and is circling. He’s not a player that’s going to win many board battles and with his size it’s smart to send the puck deep instead of get crushed along the boards. The Devils don’t need him to get hurt in this tournament. And again Matthews hasn’t been that good, which doesn’t help his line. He’s supposed to be the second best player in the league, but hasn’t played like it. You just want to get on the kid because you’re not a fan. I don’t see Fox being MaCovy, it’s not his game. But that’s doesn’t mean he’s not an excellent player.
 
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Ranger fans have watched Hughes enough to know he’s at his best when he has the puck on his stick and is circling. He’s not a player that’s going to win many board battles and with his size it’s smart to send the puck deep instead of get crushed along the boards. The Devils don’t need him to get hurt in this tournament. And again Matthews hasn’t been that good, which doesn’t help his line. He’s supposed to be the second best player in the league, but hasn’t played like it. You just want to get on the kid because you’re not a fan. I don’t see Fox being MaCovy, it’s not his game. But that’s doesn’t mean he’s not an excellent player.

Not that I do or don't disagree, but going into rival fans' corner of a message board hoping they have a love fest for your player doesn't strike me as a particularly well-formulated plan
 
I enjoyed that game. I half-expected these games to be play it safe low-contact pond hockey. But both the US and Canada put on a high-effort really good defensive game.

Giving and taking hits to make plays, skating hard to cover for guys, with both teams committed to playing hard in all zones. That was an unexpectedly good hockey game, especially if you like hard-fought defensive battles.

I still don't like this thing mid-season, but kudos to all 4 teams for showing up to play.
 
A lot of USA forwards weren’t particularly noticeable offensively because mastermind David Quinn came into the game with a super defensive gameplan. And it worked.


But we’ll see if it works in the championship because I’m 99% sure they’re going to play Canada again.
 
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A lot of USA forwards weren’t particularly noticeable offensively because mastermind David Quinn came into the game with a super defensive gameplan. And it worked.


But we’ll see if it works in the championship because I’m 99% sure they’re going to play Canada again.
Quinn is like the most losingest NHL head coach who's endeared by the American hockey programs. As long as Sully's around, he's got a job.
 
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Coming off his bad year and surgery it was a tough risky call.
Yes and I wasn't willing to take the risk. But I was very wrong lol.

Might be a moot point anyway. The reasons we lost were always because our superstars would disappear. Or at least a few of them would get ice cold at the same time. I'm not sure if Eichel would have been enough to put us over the top. Especially with Trouba.
 
How much of this is joking and how much is serious? Because your last few posts all rag on him, while at the start of the tourney some people were slobbering for a Fox-Slavin pair. Don't know if you were clamoring for it too. So you would trot Fox out there for 20+ minutes with who, now? Because it seems like you and a couple others are complaining about the TOI distribution.
You're big braining this now.

They should be playing Fox a lot more than players he's much better than. That's first off. Polar ice caps take.

Werenski-Fox is fine and like, just play them. Slavin-Fox would also be fine. Slavin carrying his own pair with a rookie gets you what you got last night.

Everyone is huffing farts because the US beat Canada. I understand that. If I told you last week that the gameplan was to ride Slavin-Faber for 30 minutes, you would have gone up to Montreal and shot Sullivan.

Don't kid yourself into thinking it worked. Team USA didn't touch the puck when they were on the ice.
 
You're big braining this now.

They should be playing Fox a lot more than players he's much better than. That's first off. Polar ice caps take.

Werenski-Fox is fine and like, just play them. Slavin-Fox would also be fine. Slavin carrying his own pair with a rookie gets you what you got last night.

Everyone is huffing farts because the US beat Canada. I understand that. If I told you last week that the gameplan was to ride Slavin-Faber for 30 minutes, you would have gone up to Montreal and shot Sullivan.

Don't kid yourself into thinking it worked. Team USA didn't touch the puck when they were on the ice.
I did no big braining. You shat on Slavin and now say he should be paired with Fox and then they would be "fine," implying that Fox is the white knight, whose job is to make his partner better as if making just himself better weren't enough against Canada's best. Neither you or I am a coach. The real brains obviously didn't want to continue Fox on the top pair.
 
I did no big braining. You shat on Slavin and now say he should be paired with Fox and then they would be "fine," implying that Fox is the white knight, whose job is to make his partner better as if making just himself better weren't enough against Canada's best.
No, you're absolutely big braining this.

Slavin playing with a rookie at this level sucks.

Slavin playing with Fox is better.

Yes, in this scenario, Fox is making his partner better.

Point the part you did not understand.
 
No, you're absolutely big braining this.

Slavin playing with a rookie at this level sucks.

Slavin playing with Fox is better.

Yes, in this scenario, Fox is making his partner better.

Point the part you did not understand.

Well, they felt otherwise. And only they decide, not us jerks on the internet. In reality, none of us really know what it's like to be behind the bench of a pro hockey team and make the decisions they make.
 
I'm not saying I hope this happens, but the Rangers trading Fox and us never having another #1 defenseman the rest of our lives like we've done at center is what this fanbase deserves.

@SnowblindNYR is absolutely right in this case. The usual suspects are turning a tournament into Adam Fox hate porn.

This fanbase has trust issues to the point of not being able to have a good player on the team.
 
Also, also.

I've been shitting on Slavin for YEARS. He's not a #1 defenseman.

I don't care what the position is called. If you're not running your team's powerplay and driving offense at an elite level, you're not a #1 defenseman.

Him being Carolina's #1 defenseman is the biggest reason they can't get over the hump.

I mean shit, even Ryan McDonagh, let's be honest, found his most success sitting in the second chair behind Victor Hedman. And he was much better than Slavin ever was, putting up similar totals in a much lower-scoring league.

I understand the parts have to fit on this team, and I think there's a role for Slavin as a stopper, but absolutely you play him a legit #1 on the right whether that's Fox or McAvoy.

Instead, they're using Slavin as their #1. The Carolina Hurricanes are not beating Canada twice. They can't even beat the Rangers.
 
Also, also.

I've been shitting on Slavin for YEARS. He's not a #1 defenseman.

I don't care what the position is called. If you're not running your team's powerplay and driving offense at an elite level, you're not a #1 defenseman.

Him being Carolina's #1 defenseman is the biggest reason they can't get over the hump.

I mean shit, even Ryan McDonagh, let's be honest, found his most success sitting in the second chair behind Victor Hedman. And he was much better than Slavin ever was, putting up similar totals in a much lower-scoring league.

I understand the parts have to fit on this team, and I think there's a role for Slavin as a stopper, but absolutely you play him a legit #1 on the right whether that's Fox or McAvoy.

Instead, they're using Slavin as their #1. The Carolina Hurricanes are not beating Canada twice. They can't even beat the Rangers.
Although there isn't a team in the NHL that knows how to shut down Panarin and the way he plays the game like Carolina. The way they hold the middle of the ice and slowly cut down his space is masterful and frustrating as hell to watch.

The problem with your definition of a #1 is it means guys like Chris Pronger (With Al Mac) is't a true #1 defensemen. Not saying Slavin is Pronger, but he's pretty much one of the best 1B defenseman in the league.
 
Although there isn't a team in the NHL that knows how to shut down Panarin and the way he plays the game like Carolina.

The problem with your definition of a #1 is it means guys like Chris Pronger (With Al Mac) is't a true #1 defensemen. Not saying Slavin is Pronger, but he's pretty much one of the best 1B defenseman in the league.
Tbh, the fact that Pronger had either MacInnis or Niedermeyer for the most successful stretches of his career is a huge strike against him on all-time lists. But he is absolutely a #1 defenseman. We saw that when those guys weren't around or had aged out a bit. The year Pronger won the Hart, he was the #1 despite MacInnis being on the same team.

The Hurricanes shut Panarin down in the playoffs to the tune of him having 7 points in 6 games. Panarin has a 4-goal game against the Hurricanes too, so...I don't know if that's true?

And I think it goes to show the problem with shutting down offensive stars: you can't. Star players are gonna score at some point. That becomes even more evident in a series. You have to be able to do something else. A #1 defenseman is a star that the other team worries about stopping.

If I'm a winger up against Jaccob Slavin, he might give me a hard time on one end, but I know I have the night off on the other end.

EDIT: Also, to address your point, having another guy doesn't necessarily not make you a #1 defenseman. That's like saying Malkin isn't a #1 center. We all just kind of accept that he could never get the full role but he could handle it if he had to.
 
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You should give Hughes a break. He’s not a right winger. He’s a center and to be honest he and Matthews have no chemistry. I don’t think Jack is scared or he wouldn’t be in the NHL. Hughes is definitely not a power forward, which everyone knows. And to be fair Matthews hasn’t been that great so far. He’s the superstar star not Jack. I’d move Jack back to center, even if it’s the 4 line. And kudos to Miller for taken on that monster of a man.
I was mostly just taking the piss....and yeah Matthews looked like early season Zibanajed in that game. Fumbling the puck, shanked shots, and bad decision making. Good defensively though. With Hughes, I'd be more worried when he does hold onto the puck in a very physical game like this (ie playoffs). You don't want him to get smoked.

I guess some in the Canada fanbase are leaning hard against Makar missing the game making all the difference. Funny, you don't see US fans crying about not having last year's actual Norris Trophy winner available for this tourney.
 
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Tbh, the fact that Pronger had either MacInnis or Niedermeyer for the most successful stretches of his career is a huge strike against him on all-time lists. But he is absolutely a #1 defenseman. We saw that when those guys weren't around or had aged out a bit. The year Pronger won the Hart, he was the #1 despite MacInnis being on the same team.

The Hurricanes shut Panarin down in the playoffs to the tune of him having 7 points in 6 games. Panarin has a 4-goal game against the Hurricanes too, so...I don't know if that's true?

And I think it goes to show the problem with shutting down offensive stars: you can't. Star players are gonna score at some point. That becomes even more evident in a series. You have to be able to do something else. A #1 defenseman is a star that the other team worries about stopping.

If I'm a winger up against Jaccob Slavin, he might give me a hard time on one end, but I know I have the night off on the other end.

EDIT: Also, to address your point, having another guy doesn't necessarily not make you a #1 defenseman. That's like saying Malkin isn't a #1 center. We all just kind of accept that he could never get the full role but he could handle it if he had to.

In terms of shutting down offensive players I know a lot of the new-school thinking is that the best way to defend a team is to outchance and outscore them, rather than play conservatively with the lead and try to limit opposition chances to the outside. In the day and age where goals so often come from deflections anyways, there certainly is an argument to be made that 'good defense' in your own zone should only be a secondary consideration for defensemen, someting they have to rely on only when plan A, holding the puck and attacking, has already failed.

But it really depends on the stats and predicted probabilities with where the score and game clock are at. A lot like pulling the goalie- which should happen a lot later in games. At a certain point in the 3rd period with a lead, even if it means lowering your own chance to score, reducing the chances of odd man rushes againt should become a top priority. Teams should stop overclocking their first PP shift and stop playing 4 forwards on the PP, past the 10 minute mark of the 3rd in a one goal game.

That's really where guys like Mikkola, Staal, Slaven thrive. There's a point that this is only a smaller part of the game compared to how a defenseman moves the puck, skates, and covers the transition game, but there's still a place for 'blanket' players. EJ Emery is supposed to be one.

But it does get overrated and overpaid, although perhaps less now than before.
 
In terms of shutting down offensive players I know a lot of the new-school thinking is that the best way to defend a team is to outchance and outscore them, rather than play conservatively with the lead and try to limit opposition chances to the outside. In the day and age where goals so often come from deflections anyways, there certainly is an argument to be made that 'good defense' in your own zone should only be a secondary consideration for defensemen, someting they have to rely on only when plan A, holding the puck and attacking, has already failed.

But it really depends on the stats and predicted probabilities with where the score and game clock are at. A lot like pulling the goalie- which should happen a lot later in games. At a certain point in the 3rd period with a lead, even if it means lowering your own chance to score, reducing the chances of odd man rushes againt should become a top priority. Teams should stop overclocking their first PP shift and stop playing 4 forwards on the PP, past the 10 minute mark of the 3rd in a one goal game.

That's really where guys like Mikkola, Staal, Slaven thrive. There's a point that this is only a smaller part of the game compared to how a defenseman moves the puck, skates, and covers the transition game, but there's still a place for 'blanket' players. EJ Emery is supposed to be one.

But it does get overrated and overpaid, although perhaps less now than before.
I don't disagree. You have to be good at defense too.

Like, if you just let Tony DeAngelo cook for 25 minutes a night, he'd put up 90 points. Nobody would want that.

And yeah, guys like Burns and Karlsson have won the Norris with blowout numbers, so sometimes it swings that way, but more often than not, I feel like the guys who suck at offense get way more leeway than the guys who suck at defense.

Slavin doesn't get anywhere near the shit from fans that Karlsson and Bouchard get, Bouchard BTW who is off Team Canada in lieu of old ass Drew Doughty and Travis Sanheim somehow. In fact, a lot of these defense-only guys become internet darlings. Like I said, people will flip their shit when Erik Karlsson wins the Norris, but where was that energy in 2016 when Doughty won the Norris after 82 games of drowning LA's offense in the pool? (and Doughty's legit but that was actually one of his worst seasons).

And it's kinda crazy that Doughty is here at all after playing six games, and being 35 ass years old, but I digress.

Like I said, I do think Slavin has a role on this team, but riding him like he's Ray Bourque on Team USA with the talent they have available is strange to me.

Also, while I'm throwing guys under the bus, I don't get this one at all:

download (4).png


I don't get it for this tournament and I don't get it period. The entire hockey world is gaslighting itself again.
 
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