the halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
- Jul 21, 2006
- 14,660
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linking it to attendance is probably a way of linking it to revenue since without fans there is far less money coming in
Forslund contract negotiations
- Thread starter Novacane
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AD Skinner
Registered User
That's exactly my thought. With no ability to go watch games, the broadcast becomes the only product. Why skimp on it?
SvechneJerk
Christ is King
If the Canes are truly preparing for the scenario that there will be no fans in attendance next season, then that makes literally EVERYONE reliant on watching games on TV. For the STM & others that regularly attend games, the attachment to John MIGHT not be as strong (of course there are exceptions) as those that don't or can't. Speaking for this household, however, for 7-8 months of the year - every year - he is part of our family. Literally, all 3 of my kids have grown up listening to him call games. All 3 of them have met players. All of them have met John. Players come & go - that's the nature of sports.
But John is the constant. John IS the Canes. He is woven into their fabric & is a VITAL part of the Caniac culture - OUR CULTURE.
Having to watch even a shortened season play out with no fans in the stands would be strange, to say the least. But hearing John, & by extension, Tripp (yea, I said it) in the booth calling games, would help bring SOME sense of normalcy to this not normal timeline we're living in.
His leaving because NBC threw a pile of money his direction to be their new national play-by-play guy, I can live with - I've been preparing myself for the eventuality of that happening. Obviously, I can accept his not being there due to retirement, too. But, this? That move would defy logic.
But John is the constant. John IS the Canes. He is woven into their fabric & is a VITAL part of the Caniac culture - OUR CULTURE.
Having to watch even a shortened season play out with no fans in the stands would be strange, to say the least. But hearing John, & by extension, Tripp (yea, I said it) in the booth calling games, would help bring SOME sense of normalcy to this not normal timeline we're living in.
His leaving because NBC threw a pile of money his direction to be their new national play-by-play guy, I can live with - I've been preparing myself for the eventuality of that happening. Obviously, I can accept his not being there due to retirement, too. But, this? That move would defy logic.
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,821
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And, and this may sound semi-commie Euro talk to some, the contract model is about moving the risk in conducting business to the salaried employee... in fact by turning the salaried employee into something else.
In normal conditions, this would be a massive "no" in my books. The one raking in the profits is also the one carrying the brunt of the economical risk. The situation is somewhat special currently, but still, if I got other options that don't include someone else moving their business risk onto me, those would be my preferred options.
Because also, it just may be that we all get vacced in the winter 20-21, but the offer on table in summer 21 will be by this new contract model if you now let it fly.
In normal conditions, this would be a massive "no" in my books. The one raking in the profits is also the one carrying the brunt of the economical risk. The situation is somewhat special currently, but still, if I got other options that don't include someone else moving their business risk onto me, those would be my preferred options.
Because also, it just may be that we all get vacced in the winter 20-21, but the offer on table in summer 21 will be by this new contract model if you now let it fly.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
- 23,708
- 55,337
You can mute a bad set announcers, basically ESPN (especially baseball), fox sports for Braves baseball, the Chris Collinsworth are mute worthy, but you have to turn off the tv to avoid bad hockey.
The only thing that makes Hohn special in this circumstance is he is the only one who hasn’t accepted the terms. So, either the other 17 are fools or he is playing hardball.
The only thing that makes Hohn special in this circumstance is he is the only one who hasn’t accepted the terms. So, either the other 17 are fools or he is playing hardball.
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,824
- 41,027
I thought the broadcasters were independent contractors all along. Shows what I know.
If I’m Forslund I tell them to kick rocks.
If I’m Forslund I tell them to kick rocks.
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Incubajerks
Registered User
I work and you pay me as per contract. Why should I accept other forms of payment subject to something that does not depend on my control or how I do my job?
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
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Devils advocate. Our main source of revenue might not exist. If it does, you share in that.
In a perfect world you would see 100% of any gate go back to the employees if this was the route they decided to go. My guess is that isn’t the case.
Incubajerks
Registered User
Yeah, he would have been a fool to take that. If he is doing his job really, really well.....people stay home to listen to him. They aren't going to games to listen to him.
Just a thought on the whole Forslund advocacy front: would it make sense for all of these posts to be moved to a dedicated thread so any Canes management that happens to be surfing our site can more easily find it and see what the fans think?
Finnish Jerk Train
lol stupid mickey mouse organization
Here's a sample list of positions for which the base + bonus tied to attendance model might make sense:
- Accounting
- Ticket sales
- Ad buying
- Ad sales in arena
- Broadcasting
Who knew working for a guy who made his billions by taking advantage in people in vulnerable positions could end up bad for employees?
If the Canes want to play hardball then Forslund should and likely will walk. I'd guess there are at least 5-10 mega-rich owners out there who would be happy to front the cost to bring in the best announcer in all of hockey.
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I'm hoping this ends up like Waddell: Forslund gets a guaranteed salary offer from Seattle or Tampa, brings it back, and Dundon matches it.
But if Seattle is willing to pay him to skip the 20-21 season with the exception of some NBC work that's a hard deal to pass up.
And if NBC offers him a deal for national coverage and 2022 Olympics? I don't think the hardball will be the difference but it would still hurt to not get Forslund when he isn't on NBC.
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,824
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In a normal year, 1000% true.
I don’t think this is a “bonus” for increasing attendance. This is a contingency for if there is zero or limited ticket revenue due to a pandemic.
Finnish Jerk Train
lol stupid mickey mouse organization
Right, I'm just using the term from the article. Bonus isn't really the right word.
The point is, these are all positions where the workload and/or revenue generated is tied to the number of people in the building. You have to limit your exposure in areas like that. But the only way broadcasting doesn't happen is if the season doesn't happen. It just blows my mind that they're trying to shove the same model down John's throat (and presumably succeeded in shoving it down Tripp's throat).
- Dec 6, 2011
- 13,120
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I understand why many want to just pay the man no matter what. I understand that there are owners out there that will, and that may very well lead to the loss of John. I also understand the structure they want John to take and that supposedly many others took. I don't think that there is a bad side here or any evil being done. Just an outcome that will suck.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
It's not evil. It's just short sighted, in my opinion.
Whether happens, happens. I've done what little I can do.
Whether happens, happens. I've done what little I can do.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
- 23,708
- 55,337
He is running this business like a business. Employees earn more money when you get bonuses based on business performance. Heck he wanted treat the GM like a standard employee.
if he wishes to run it like a standard business he has the right. He hasn’t cared if people didn’t like it before and I don’t think he’ll care now.
if John wishes for more guarantee and TD doesn’t want to treat employees different then John can walk.
if he wishes to run it like a standard business he has the right. He hasn’t cared if people didn’t like it before and I don’t think he’ll care now.
if John wishes for more guarantee and TD doesn’t want to treat employees different then John can walk.
That could be a good idea... We can not have that... Now off with your shark
Trading in Terrible ideas since a few days ago.. You'll get good value I Promise!
Now if John was leaving for NBC I think we all kind of expected that...we wouldn't like it but It's in our wheelhouse of expectations... I just hate him leaving this way. I know it's not in stone.
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AD Skinner
Registered User
John IS different though. Not only is he a Canes institution, hes one of if not the best play by play man in the league. Letting him walk over money sends the message that you don't care about the fan experience, especially in this climate where fans likely won't get to go to games in person any time soon. Maybe I'm being too emotional but I don't think it's that different from letting a good, homegrown player leave- fans want to see the best, and they want to see their guys, and that's who John is.
Yeah, John is more similar in his talent level to Aho than any other non-player in the organization. If Dundon wants to play hardball with the others where there is replacement level talent to be had to backfill the positions, he'll probably be successful. Playing those games with a guy who can probably go anywhere he wants and people would love to have him because his talent is nearly without peer, is a mistake.
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,824
- 41,027
I think the title: “Forslund Leaving, f*** Tom Dundon’s cheap ass with a rusty pole” would be more likely to bring the needed eyes to the discussion.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
- Jul 31, 2017
- 23,708
- 55,337
Except that Aho will do more for butts in seats than John ever will. So you play less hard ball with those that add to the bottom line than those that don’t.
Canes
Registered User
Dundon knows the vast majority of fans will do nothing if Forslund leaves, even most of the ones who threaten to do so. That's just how it is unfortunately. If I were a billionaire owner of a sports team, I would treat the cost of keeping Forslund around compared to his replacement a small expense because it basically is compared to the average business.
Who knows, maybe the Twitter-like activism will cause them to cave but I doubt it.
Who knows, maybe the Twitter-like activism will cause them to cave but I doubt it.
