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Forslund contract negotiations

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Gocanes0506 said:
concern by players and coaches, isnt any. The owner wants to spend money us to be successful. No concern, actual jubilation instead.
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I am not so sure about this.

  • After the offer sheet Waddell said that the front-office thought the offer was slightly more than Aho was worth. There was no need to say anything other than the organization viewed Aho as a player who would earn his salary as he kept improving.
  • I have always had the suspicion (the Charlotte move and Forslund fiasco have supported it) that Williams was willing to play the entirety of last season. He made a comment in an interview reported in the N&O that his children were ok with him returning—as a parent you don't mention your children unless you are trying to make a point. My suspicion is that the organization played hardball with the fact that Williams would not play elsewhere and offered him something like 2M. Williams had a good 18-19, so as a proud professional he wasn't willing to accept a 50% or more pay cut. Williams is both too professional and risked the option, that he used, of returning for the playoff push if he went public. All of his responses about retirement were conditional. Maybe I am guilty of confirmation bias, but all Williams' statements and actions seemed like a player who was willing to play as soon as the team's offer was fair in his mind. I am not saying Williams didn't enjoy the time at home and coaching his children (again he had publicly stated his children's approval), but it was obvious that he wasn't retiring. Everyone acknowledges he is a great leader—one of the things we all admire about true leaders is that they are in for the entire challenge.
  • I have stated before the Waddell comment about Pesce wanting traded don't sync with any reporting and the timeline Waddell indicated perfectly parallels the availability of Nylander.
 
42 jerks said:
I am not so sure about this.

  • After the offer sheet Waddell said that the front-office thought the offer was slightly more than Aho was worth. There was no need to say anything other than the organization viewed Aho as a player who would earn his salary as he kept improving.
  • I have always had the suspicion (the Charlotte move and Forslund fiasco have supported it) that Williams was willing to play the entirety of last season. He made a comment in an interview reported in the N&O that his children were ok with him returning—as a parent you don't mention your children unless you are trying to make a point. My suspicion is that the organization played hardball with the fact that Williams would not play elsewhere and offered him something like 2M. Williams had a good 18-19, so as a proud professional he wasn't willing to accept a 50% or more pay cut. Williams is both too professional and risked the option, that he used, of returning for the playoff push if he went public. All of his responses about retirement were conditional. Maybe I am guilty of confirmation bias, but all Williams' statements and actions seemed like a player who was willing to play as soon as the team's offer was fair in his mind. I am not saying Williams didn't enjoy the time at home and coaching his children (again he had publicly stated his children's approval), but it was obvious that he wasn't retiring. Everyone acknowledges he is a great leader—one of the things we all admire about true leaders is that they are in for the entire challenge.
  • I have stated before the Waddell comment about Pesce wanting traded don't sync with any reporting and the timeline Waddell indicated perfectly parallels the availability of Nylander.
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There an absolute ton of reaching in all of these situations.

1. Aho. Waddell never said Aho wasn’t worth that. He may have said it was more signing bonus than he wanted to pay but never he wasn’t worth 8.4 million a year. In fact all the comments from Waddell and Dundon support that. They quickly laughed at the le offre hostile. I would agree TD probably didn’t want that much signing bonus. He likes to spend money as he has revenue coming in.

2. Williams. You have zero clue what Williams wanted or the Canes offer. On top of that, Williams comments about his kids didn’t come until he actually signed. Maybe his kids were cool once he was home riding their rear end all the time. But this entire assumption is chicken little, the sky is falling type stuff. If Williams wanted to come back he would have said from the beginning, he wanted to come back. Willians usually doesn’t hold back in his honesty.

3. Pesce’s trade request is well documented. He wanted to play more. He didn’t like 3rd line minutes. The team put him on the 2nd line and we lived on. If Pesce was disgruntled with the team further, we would still hear whispers of him wanting a trade. Heck his relative (Brother?) is pretty active on Twitter. Im sure he would have drops some hints at some point. The final nail, you cannot build a family type atmosphere in the locker room with a disgruntled player. Pesce would have been traded a while ago to keep the locker room together and avoid the disgruntled player from poisoning the rest. But we don’t have any of that.
 
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42 jerks said:
I am not so sure about this.

  • After the offer sheet Waddell said that the front-office thought the offer was slightly more than Aho was worth. There was no need to say anything other than the organization viewed Aho as a player who would earn his salary as he kept improving.
  • I have always had the suspicion (the Charlotte move and Forslund fiasco have supported it) that Williams was willing to play the entirety of last season. He made a comment in an interview reported in the N&O that his children were ok with him returning—as a parent you don't mention your children unless you are trying to make a point. My suspicion is that the organization played hardball with the fact that Williams would not play elsewhere and offered him something like 2M. Williams had a good 18-19, so as a proud professional he wasn't willing to accept a 50% or more pay cut. Williams is both too professional and risked the option, that he used, of returning for the playoff push if he went public. All of his responses about retirement were conditional. Maybe I am guilty of confirmation bias, but all Williams' statements and actions seemed like a player who was willing to play as soon as the team's offer was fair in his mind. I am not saying Williams didn't enjoy the time at home and coaching his children (again he had publicly stated his children's approval), but it was obvious that he wasn't retiring. Everyone acknowledges he is a great leader—one of the things we all admire about true leaders is that they are in for the entire challenge.
  • I have stated before the Waddell comment about Pesce wanting traded don't sync with any reporting and the timeline Waddell indicated perfectly parallels the availability of Nylander.
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Yes, it is horrible, this take.
 
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Navin R Slavin said:
Yes, it is horrible, this take.
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Gocanes0506 said:
On top of that, Williams comments about his kids didn’t come until he actually signed.
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A quick search of the N&O archives turned up this:

"In a question-and-answer interview last week with Today’s Northumberland website, Williams said he had asked his two kids, son Jaxon and daughter Jade, if they wanted him to continue playing hockey or have “Dad” at home more. He said both wanted him to play, that the family enjoyed coming to the games and seeing him play."

August 1, 2019
Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/article233406657.html#storylink=cpy
Gocanes0506 said:
Pesce’s trade request is well documented.
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Here is what a search of the N&O using "Pesce asks for trade" turned up.


" "

My take might not be good—but I am not altering reality.
 
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42 jerks said:
A quick search of the N&O archives turned up this:

"In a question-and-answer interview last week with Today’s Northumberland website, Williams said he had asked his two kids, son Jaxon and daughter Jade, if they wanted him to continue playing hockey or have “Dad” at home more. He said both wanted him to play, that the family enjoyed coming to the games and seeing him play."

August 1, 2019
Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/article233406657.html#storylink=cpy

Here is what a search of the N&O using "Pesce asks for trade" turned up.


" "

My take might not be good—but I am not altering reality.
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Not to be too rude, but so what about what Williams’ kids said?

I think it’s a pretty big stretch to turn that into an argument that Williams wanted to start the season with CAR. I didn’t like the reports that he was considering signing with another team earlier this year, but that was likely gamesmanship. He got a fair contract in the end, that’s all that mattered. I highly doubt he was sitting around in October 2019 stewing about not having a contract.

I certainly don’t agree with everything Dundon has done and said since he bought the team, but, he’s backed up what he has said about putting a better product on the ice. I don’t like how they strong-armed Aho and I’m nervous about how they’ll handle Svechnikov and Hamilton, but...you can’t argue with the results and buzz the team has had since he took over.
 
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spockBokk said:
Not to be too rude, but so what about what Williams’ kids said?
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Because Williams is a smart person. He could have easily said "my family told me they are ok with whatever I decide."

But he specifically told a writer "both WANTED him to play" and the FAMILY enjoyed "coming to the games."

You think Williams is capable of gamesmanship by saying other teams were interested. I am not disputing that—yet it is basically the same logic I am using by suspecting that Williams was playing the one card he had by letting it be known that his family wanted him to continue playing.

No doubt that I could be reading too much into it—but that is exactly what someone would say to send a message. If Williams wanted to play in 19-20, whether the entire season or starting in February, and if he wants to work with the organization after his career, he just can't state that he found the team's offer insulting—we have to be smart enough to figure that out.

There is definitely a history of the front-office playing hardball and Williams wasn't likely to go elsewhere.
 
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Navin R Slavin said:
Ouch. I know she's excited for Abby, but that seems a little tone deaf given the Forslund situation.
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Yeah, it's something to be happy about. I agree she did a good job in that role; I'd even argue she did better in that role than Mike did.

But the tweet does make you think there's news about Forslund.
 
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Chrispy said:
Yeah, it's something to be happy about. I agree she did a good job in that role; I'd even argue she did better in that role than Mike did.

But the tweet does make you think there's news about Forslund.
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I mean unless the announcement is that John is going to be NBCs #1 starting next session, in which case that's pretty awesome
 
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that would have to be one of the weirdest 4 days. Yea we are going to put all our money on the ice, " I will never get over this," to "welcome back, welcome back, wellllllcooooome baaaaaaaaaack" in 4 days? That would be some weird and do wut turn of events.
 
Gocanes0506 said:
that would have to be one of the weirdest 4 days. Yea we are going to put all our money on the ice, " I will never get over this," to "welcome back, welcome back, wellllllcooooome baaaaaaaaaack" in 4 days? That would be some weird and do wut turn of events.
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That would be a very carolina thing to happen.
 
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