Forslund contract negotiations

[A Star is Burns]

As I have mentioned before, Forslund highlights from at the very least the early Canes years, left a lot to be desired compared to the current vintage. And he'd been doing it for a while by that point. Hopefully Mike can learn and grow too.

 

[AD Skinner]

Just for giggles try announcing a game sometime. (with or without adult beverages!)

This really makes a huge difference in appreciating what they bring to the table. It is really difficult to keep up with the play and not repeat yourself constantly, not to mention knowing who's who on each team and having any insight to add in times when play isn't going on. Its fun, but super hard

 

[hblueridgegal]

He will be expendable like everyone else.

 

[AD Skinner]

Who are these people?

 

[Vagrant]

Let's not forget- we are spoiled rotten here! We've had a top 3-4 in the league guy forever. I thought Mike seemed pretty uptight on the first playoff broadcast, but improved a lot over the playoff run. He'll work out just fine.

Just for giggles try announcing a game sometime. (with or without adult beverages!)

not calling you out specifically for this, but that's such an absurd way to measure competency. any of us, as admitted novices, couldn't do that job significantly better than he can and that's the problem not the solution. it's like going to the doctor and he butchers your operation and somebody goes "well he's the new guy the old doctor that left was such an awesome doctor that we're really used to a certain level of performance but i think you'll agree that this doctor is affable enough for you to forgive his inadequacy to be a doctor because dammit you just want him to do a good job so much!" it's just not an acceptable threshold for a professional. it's almost like the biggest FU that dundon could send to not even seek a veteran pbp to fill that position as a flex against forslund to show how irrelevant it is who fills that chair in terms of impact on the bottom line. they hired the least competent member of the broadcast team to take the most prominent role and it probably hasn't impacted ratings in any meaningful way. they went from forslund to a sweating bratwurst and nobody cares. tough business.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get what you’re saying Vagrant, about accepting mediocrity, but the Doctor analogy isn’t a very apt one. You’re comparing entertainment vs. life/death/health. I realize it’s hyperbole to make a point, But IMO, it’s over the top enough to dilute your message.

As much as I like John, and want him to stay, not having him is going to have little impact on my enjoyment of the game, and like you said, probably won’t impact the ratings. I’ll miss him, but not enough to affect my fandom. Others may feel differently and that’s perfectly fine and understandable.

we knew early on not to get attached to players/personnel on Carolina, as Dundon will make business decisions, even if they tug at our hearts. It’s not always pleasant, as in this case.

As for not hiring an experienced PBP guy, I think in this environment with questionable revenue, I can’t blame him much for not wanting to spend on that.

 

[Chrispy]

What experienced PBP person would come in and take the offer that was made to Forslund or Tracy, where they are now contractors and their bonus income is based upon a portion of the team's performance that is completely outside their control (attendance)?

 

[sheriff bart]

I've seen and heard a lot about Dondun being cheap on this. I think it's probably as simple as John wanting guaranteed money and Dundon wanting to tie it into actual games broadcast. I certainly see both sides of that.

 

[MinJaBen]

I've seen and heard a lot about Dondun being cheap on this. I think it's probably as simple as John wanting guaranteed money and Dundon wanting to tie it into actual games broadcast. I certainly see both sides of that.

A very important distinction here: it wasn't games broadcast (which would make sense due to that's John's job), it was attendance at the games. So if they "bubbled" the entire season next year, John's pay would be half (or whatever the cut/bonus structure was).

 

[cptjeff]

A very important distinction here: it wasn't games broadcast (which would make sense due to that's John's job), it was attendance at the games. So if they "bubbled" the entire season next year, John's pay would be half (or whatever the cut/bonus structure was).

It was both. There were a lot of different incentives, from what was reported at least, it had a lot of different moving parts. Obviously we don't have all the details, but the factors we do know are all based around whether the team is actually generating any revenue or not. If we're not generating any revenue and only playing 40 games, does paying John millions in guaranteed money make any sense? Player salary isn't guaranteed when league revenue drops. Dundon is trying to write contracts for a period of time where he has absolutely zero idea what the income side of the equation will be. If income is variable based on changing scenarios, so should expenses. John doesn't want to take the financial risk of that, and has options. But ultimately, I really sympathize with the team here. I also sympathize with John. This is ultimately about a pandemic making giving guaranteed big money for broadcasters a bad idea.

 

[GoldiFox]

I thought Maniscalco was OK technically in calling the play. His enthusiasm for anything exciting was just lacking and sounded awkwardly forced. Like he was trying to channel Forslund's excitement but in a cringy way. Hopefully it can be improved over time.

 

[MinJaBen]

Me too, John.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

It was both. There were a lot of different incentives, from what was reported at least, it had a lot of different moving parts. Obviously we don't have all the details, but the factors we do know are all based around whether the team is actually generating any revenue or not. If we're not generating any revenue and only playing 40 games, does paying John millions in guaranteed money make any sense? Player salary isn't guaranteed when league revenue drops. Dundon is trying to write contracts for a period of time where he has absolutely zero idea what the income side of the equation will be. If income is variable based on changing scenarios, so should expenses. John doesn't want to take the financial risk of that, and has options. But ultimately, I really sympathize with the team here. I also sympathize with John. This is ultimately about a pandemic making giving guaranteed big money for broadcasters a bad idea.

Millions? You think? Man...I did not think it would be anywhere close to that. I was thinking a nice mid-6 figures, starting with 4 or 5. At the most.

 

[AD Skinner]

Me too, John.

This makes me so sad. I never met him but he was a constant source of comfort for me. Like family, except I actually wanted him around. I will continue to support the canes through sheer inertia if nothing else, but they better be winning a lot of games. This sucks.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Me too, John.

Forslund said he'd never heard from the Canes front office after contract talks broke down, not even just on a personal level. He and his family have come to terms with the situation but that doesn't make it any easier.

"I can't explain it. I really can't," he said. "I mean, I can explain it, which is unfortunate, but I'll never, I'll never get over this. I really, really won't."

So classless and heartless, really by the organization...use em up and spit em out appears to be the mantra.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I hardly doubt they are the first employer not to reach out personally for a few months after splitting ways. Or never if it comes to that. Probably just me, but not a big deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

I hardly doubt they are the first employer not to reach out personally for a few months after splitting ways. Or never if it comes to that. Probably just me, but not a big deal.

True, they aren’t the first. But then, I don’t buy Citibank jerseys or get Walmart employee autographs or pay money to watch Ford employees do their jobs.

 

[Joe McGrath]

he's just not quick enough to relay what is happening and also have a reaction to it. he just starts talking when play starts and doesn't process anything until it ends. it's like he has a slightly slower feed than real time.

Its entirely possible he actually did have a slower feed than the one we were getting on TV since it was all remote.

 

[A Star is Burns]

True, they aren’t the first. But then, I don’t buy Citibank jerseys or get Walmart employee autographs or pay money to watch Ford employees do their jobs.

I mean, that's a fine argument for keeping him I suppose (though I doubt you bought a Forslund jersey). Does it have anything to do with the team reaching out to a former employee?

Anyone or everyone else can be upset they didn't send a fruit basket or a Christmas card in December, I just don't think that part is a big deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

I mean, that's a fine argument for keeping him I suppose (though I doubt you bought a Forslund jersey). Does it have anything to do with the team reaching out to a former employee?

I think for me being a fan is about more than just the players or the location of the team. It the whole package. When a player or an owner or whoever does something shity, it affects how I feel about continuing to be a fan. This owner’s willingness to screw over anyone is definitely something that makes me less interested. I shouldn’t be surprised given how he made his money, but I hoped this would have been different.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think for me being a fan is about more than just the players or the location of the team. It the whole package. When a player or an owner or whoever does something shity, it affects how I feel about continuing to be a fan. This owner’s willingness to screw over anyone is definitely something that makes me less interested. I shouldn’t be surprised given how he made his money, but I hoped this would have been different.

That's certainly fine. We all have different thresholds on what we accept or want out of things.

For me, I love Forslund, but I don't see it as shitty to not reach out after moving on or let a guy go that wouldn't accept a deal that made financial sense for the team in a tough time. Both sides did what they had to do. Forslund will land on his feet and get the team gig he wants somewhere, but he didn't exactly get his door beaten down immediately either. I'm still of the mind overall that not every shitty situation has a bad guy. And for me, every part of a team comes and goes except the laundry and location (one hopes). So I just take it in stride.

I certainly feel bad for people that need that extra stuff when things like this don't align with their values more closely.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

So classless and heartless, really by the organization...use em up and spit em out appears to be the mantra.

How exactly? They made a business decision to change people. Are teams classless because they move on from a long term player who they couldnt afford anymore? No.

Tom made it apparent he likes Forslund more but he has made the decision to put all his money on the ice. It isn’t classless, its business.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Plenty of companies know how to gracefully handle an exit of a beloved and respected member of an organization instead of letting the N&O and Adam Golds do the heavy lifting for them. It keeps being talked about because many around the league are aghast and think we're nuts for doing this - fans, the media and analysts alike.

They had the man everywhere..on any platform...station, podcast, channel, community event, etc to promote the Canes and represent the organization - PR Gold. And, then to summarily dismiss him in such a way is just so tacky and short sighted.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Plenty of companies know how to gracefully handle an exit of a beloved and respected member of an organization instead of letting the N&O and Adam Golds do the heavy lifting for them. It keeps being talked about because many around the league are aghast and think we're nuts for doing this - fans, the media and analysts alike.

They had the man everywhere..on any platform...station, podcast, channel, community event, etc to promote the Canes and represent the organization - PR Gold. And, then to summarily dismiss him in such a way is just so tacky and short sighted.

You certainly might end up right. I still bet that it doesn't have a huge impact in the grand scheme of things as I have all along. I'm sure it will have some impact of course, but I do think most of the fans that follow the team and give the money barely know or care who the PBP guy is or care or know about many of the other moves that have been made. Heck, you are probably the most critical of almost every move that management or ownership makes, and you still seem to be following the team. I guess that's what they are banking on in the long term.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

As someone who lives in the Atlanta area and makes it to one game a year, give me a better product on the ice. If it requires going with Shaya and some middle school kid, Im good with it. I can mute the announcers if need be.

i dont remember one memorable call by John. I remember the big plays, the accomplishments, and championships as happening but not what John said. Im in the minority by not being emotionally attached to this. I just don’t see the fuss.