Former Ducks - (2023-24 Season Edition )

[Kalv]

Oh yah.. He has always had authority over Cronin.. Because well... Cronin is a rookie coach..

The Samuelli has authoroty over Verberk.. Because well... Verbeek is a rookie GM?

 

[Boo Boo]

"Graig, imagine this 4th liner with size we could draft in a 5th round, but instead we will be able to get him a day earlier. It will be amazing, let's do it"

“Ok I’ll do it but we have to trade for Ben Meyer”

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

The Samuelli has authoroty over Verberk.. Because well... Verbeek is a rookie GM?

I mean I guess soo yah... Samulies are verbeeks boss.. The only difference is. Samulies have no time to tell Verbeek how to do this job and manage his day to day activities.. Verbeeks Job is to put a winning team together and make the Samuelies Money at the same time... If he feels like Cronin is doing things wrong than he will tell cronin to change things up... Do I agree with it? No way.. I think Verbeek needs to let his coach do the coaching..

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Would love to see Kase back.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

The impression I get over the years is that Henry truly is a hands off owner. He hires people he believes are best qualified and lets them do their job. Verbeek, OTOH, hires people and seems to like to meddle in how they do their job. I don’t think that’s a recipe for success but to paraphrase Ahlers, the next time Henry asks my opinion will be the first.

For the record, I don’t have an issue putting Rico at wing to squeeze out a 1st on a team going nowhere, it’s all the other coaching meddling he does. Why did he hire Cronin if he didn’t believe Cronin was capable of developing and getting the most out of these young players?

 

[JAHV]

The impression I get over the years is that Henry truly is a hands off owner. He hires people he believes are best qualified and lets them do their job. Verbeek, OTOH, hires people and seems to like to meddle in how they do their job. I don’t think that’s a recipe for success but to paraphrase Ahlers, the next time Henry asks my opinion will be the first.

For the record, I don’t have an issue putting Rico at wing to squeeze out a 1st on a team going nowhere, it’s all the other coaching meddling he does. Why did he hire Cronin if he didn’t believe Cronin was capable of developing and getting the most out of these young players?

Genuinely curious - what other coaching meddling has he done? The Leo management plan was a player development issue and has nothing to do with coaching. It AFFECTS coaching because it forces Cronin to use different lineups, but it's not Verbeek telling Cronin what to do.

I'm sure there are discussions Verbeek has had with Cronin about lineup choices and strategy, but that seems like part of a GM's job, especially with a rookie NHL head coach. There are probably some things I'm not thinking of, but I don't have the impression that Verbeek is overly meddlesome. Heck, I don't think anything he's done is as meddlesome as Murray hiring Darryl Sutter as a mentor/watchdog for Eakins.

 

[Kalv]

I mean I guess soo yah... Samulies are verbeeks boss.. The only difference is. Samulies have no time to tell Verbeek how to do this job and manage his day to day activities.. Verbeeks Job is to put a winning team together and make the Samuelies Money at the same time... If he feels like Cronin is doing things wrong than he will tell cronin to change things up... Do I agree with it? No way.. I think Verbeek needs to let his coach do the coaching..

That's an assumption (that Sammuellis doesnt't and Verbeek does have time), that I do not believe is true. No way to tell it tho

 

[Anaheim4ever]

The impression I get over the years is that Henry truly is a hands off owner. He hires people he believes are best qualified and lets them do their job. Verbeek, OTOH, hires people and seems to like to meddle in how they do their job. I don’t think that’s a recipe for success but to paraphrase Ahlers, the next time Henry asks my opinion will be the first.

For the record, I don’t have an issue putting Rico at wing to squeeze out a 1st on a team going nowhere, it’s all the other coaching meddling he does. Why did he hire Cronin if he didn’t believe Cronin was capable of developing and getting the most out of these young players?

Yeah, even as hands off owners I think they do put a limit on staying a certain point under the salary cap ? When the team is really ready to contend I think they would spend to the cap again like during the Niedermayer/Selanne era of 06 to 09 when the Ducks were barely cap compliant and McDonald was traded to meet the cap. I would think when that happens again it would probably be rental players that put the team at the cap.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Genuinely curious - what other coaching meddling has he done? The Leo management plan was a player development issue and has nothing to do with coaching. It AFFECTS coaching because it forces Cronin to use different lineups, but it's not Verbeek telling Cronin what to do.

I'm sure there are discussions Verbeek has had with Cronin about lineup choices and strategy, but that seems like part of a GM's job, especially with a rookie NHL head coach. There are probably some things I'm not thinking of, but I don't have the impression that Verbeek is overly meddlesome. Heck, I don't think anything he's done is as meddlesome as Murray hiring Darryl Sutter as a mentor/watchdog for Eakins.

Well, I’ve developed my opinion over time. I don’t expect everybody to agree. But here’s my thoughts…

Last year he made it clear he wanted to still be involved with scouting and did so. Now I have no issue with this because it never hurts to have another scout. But it is a job separate from the one he was hired for. (Yes, I know many GMs do some scouting (BM) but not all do and it isn’t the specific job he was hired for.)

Late in this season he admitted to telling Cronin to put Leo on the PK. Early in the season there was a lot of debate here as to playing the different rookie D on their off sides as well as why some guys were or weren’t being used on the top pair. There were a lot of valid points made and in hindsight I’m of the belief that wasn’t remotely all Cronin’s doing. I believe PV was behind many of the decisions as to who played where.

Late in the season PV also made some comment to the effect that it took him and Cronin all season to supposedly get on the same page. I commented at the time I didn’t think it was a good look for either of them.

So, in hindsight, to me, it was obvious he wanted a coach who had no NHL track record to point to, one who would be quite willing to have less control over how to manage the team on the ice because Pat wanted to be involved in that too. In hindsight it makes a lot of sense to me, now, why we didn’t hire an established coach because an established coach wouldn’t want the job under those circumstances. I’ve been critical of Cronin like many here, but I’m also feeling some sympathy for the position I feel he’s been put in.

I agree that coaches and GMs do talk during the year. But IMO, this season was about more than that. Most of the time you hear most people say the GMs job is to build the roster, the coach’s job is to get the most out of that roster.

When I look at Verbeek’s very short track record I see a guy who likes to get involved with a lot of things for which other people are hired to do. I don’t know where all this will lead to but I’ll be along for the ride.

Sorry for typos/grammar etc. I’m on the road working from an iPad at truck stops with spotty WiFi. It’s a pain.

 

[ADHB]

I think that GM's have a lot more input than people typically think. This isn't the be all, end all, but I remember watching one of those "road to the winter classic" series years back when the Caps were in it. And one of the scenes was what appeared to be a daily meeting between the GM and the head coach, going over the lineup for the next game.

Maybe some coaches who have been in the league forever have complete autonomy, but I'd bet the front office has a lot of say in what goes on on the ice in most cases.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Late in the season PV also made some comment to the effect that it took him and Cronin all season to supposedly get on the same page. I commented at the time I didn’t think it was a good look for either of them.

Where was this shared?

Also - I'm not surprised. I've had my opinions regarding Cronin for quite some time. I wish we went after a Keefe or someone else. I feel like their continuous word choice of 'culture change' is code for 'trying to BS our way out' and make excuses for thing

 

[cheesymc]

Where was this shared?

Also - I'm not surprised. I've had my opinions regarding Cronin for quite some time. I wish we went after a Keefe or someone else. I feel like their continuous word choice of 'culture change' is code for 'trying to BS our way out' and make excuses for thing

Maybe PV intentionally hired a nobody coach so that he could have more direct influence and 'micromanage' a bit. He definitely wouldn't have the same influence if he had hired an established name, or power hungry one like Tortorella. When Cronin is let go next season we will see if PV hires a proven coach like a Deboer/Keefe or if he goes with another no-name. I have a feeling he will continue hiring the one that he would have the most influence over...

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

It might also be worth remembering that this is a relatively new GM with a brand new HC... They're both probably figuring things out, including how to work with each other in their roles.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Where was this shared?

Also - I'm not surprised. I've had my opinions regarding Cronin for quite some time. I wish we went after a Keefe or someone else. I feel like their continuous word choice of 'culture change' is code for 'trying to BS our way out' and make excuses for thing

It was probably either the STH talk or possibly the interview he did with Alexis. But it could have been somewhere else. It was mentioned in one of the threads here which was where I made my comment.

 

[MMC]

Where was this shared?

Also - I'm not surprised. I've had my opinions regarding Cronin for quite some time. I wish we went after a Keefe or someone else. I feel like their continuous word choice of 'culture change' is code for 'trying to BS our way out' and make excuses for thing

Lol, the hell has Keefe done?

 

[dracom]

Lol, the hell has Keefe done?

won the calder cup, and coached a good regular season team. i wouldn't have been upset if we dropped Cronin for him.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Lol, the hell has Keefe done?

Coach one of (arguably) the best teams in the league. Very successful in juniors and in the A. It’s not his fault one play and certain players who ghost during the playoffs suddenly justify he’s a ‘poor coach’. Cronin hasn’t been a winner anywhere. Not sure what he’s even good at

But yes, continue wanting mediocrity - would expect nothing less lmao.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Lol, the hell has Keefe done?

Bought an Ottawa region junior A team when he retired from playing in his mid 20s. Won five consecutive league titles (first and only time in league history that's been done) and a Canadian national Junior A championship running all aspects of hockey ops.

Made the jump up the OHL when he was still just 32 years old (super young to be coaching that level). Led the Soo Greyhounds to a record of 98-29-9 across his two seasons.

Joined the AHL Marlies again at a very young age (34) and led them to the playoffs in each of his four seasons including their first ever Calder Cup win in the final year, overall record of 199-89-31.

Then his coaching record with the Leafs over five seasons was 212-97-40, making the playoffs each year and with three being 100+ point seasons. Yes they only had the won playoff series win but if there are more accomplished coaches out there at his age, you can count them on one hand.

Honestly I put all of the blame for the Leafs lack of playoff success at the feet of Shanahan and his front office team. They have mismanaged the cap and made poor decisions building the foundation of the club. Keefe is going to be a great coach in the league for another 20+ years.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Anyone know whats the deal with Rico? Why has be been injured all this time?

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

Anyone know whats the deal with Rico? Why has be been injured all this time?

Ankle injury. Pretty sure it happened in the first round. He game back for like ~10 minutes in Round 2 Game 2 and hasn't played since.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Ankle injury. Pretty sure it happened in the first round. He game back for like ~10 minutes in Round 2 Game 2 and hasn't played since.

Ah I see

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Ankle injury. Pretty sure it happened in the first round. He game back for like ~10 minutes in Round 2 Game 2 and hasn't played since.

Same one he injured just before the deadline last year?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

There was talk it was a high ankle sprain.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795233792774324507

 

[MMC]

won the calder cup, and coached a good regular season team. i wouldn't have been upset if we dropped Cronin for him.

The Leafs were a good regular season team before he got there, so I don’t know how much that really says about him. And as far as AHL success goes, that was the main thing both Eakins and Cronin had going for them, who everyone on here seems upset with.

Coach one of (arguably) the best teams in the league. Very successful in juniors and in the A. It’s not his fault one play and certain players who ghost during the playoffs suddenly justify he’s a ‘poor coach’. Cronin hasn’t been a winner anywhere. Not sure what he’s even good at

But yes, continue wanting mediocrity - would expect nothing less lmao.

This may shock the hell out of you but just because someone disagrees with you as to what it will take for the team to take the next step doesn’t mean they “want mediocrity”.

Bought an Ottawa region junior A team when he retired from playing in his mid 20s. Won five consecutive league titles (first and only time in league history that's been done) and a Canadian national Junior A championship running all aspects of hockey ops.

Made the jump up the OHL when he was still just 32 years old (super young to be coaching that level). Led the Soo Greyhounds to a record of 98-29-9 across his two seasons.

Joined the AHL Marlies again at a very young age (34) and led them to the playoffs in each of his four seasons including their first ever Calder Cup win in the final year, overall record of 199-89-31.

Then his coaching record with the Leafs over five seasons was 212-97-40, making the playoffs each year and with three being 100+ point seasons. Yes they only had the won playoff series win but if there are more accomplished coaches out there at his age, you can count them on one hand.

Honestly I put all of the blame for the Leafs lack of playoff success at the feet of Shanahan and his front office team. They have mismanaged the cap and made poor decisions building the foundation of the club. Keefe is going to be a great coach in the league for another 20+ years.

I don’t blame him for the Leafs lack of success, but I have no idea what would indicate to someone that he would single-handedly turn this team around