Former Canucks Thread 2023-24 Off-Season Edition

[thecupismine]

You are rewriting history and ignoring actual facts. It wasn't till 3 season ago that McCann actual put his shit together and the number 1 D is Gustov? He is not a number 1 D.. he is good but you ignore it took 7 years from his draft year to actual show he was any good. Hawks and Carolina let him go as well. How many teams dud McCann play on before he put solid numbers together?

McCann became a solid middle six player 4 years out from his draft which is reasonable for a late first round pick, and then blossomed into a bona-fide top 6 player in 2020. We gave up on him 2 years after his draft, along with more draft picks, for a replacement level dman because he's "big." That's hardly revisionist history, that's just poor management.

Forsling was traded after a good draft +1 season for a AHL tweener who's numbers had gone down year over year because of the "age gap." The deal made no sense then and looks asinine now.

Thinking Ekblad is the number 1 in Florida right now makes me think you didn't watch much Panthers hockey last year, or aren't particularly good at player evaluation. Forsling is a modern day Mattias Ohlund, guy just eats minutes for the Panthers and wins his matchups much more consistently than Ekblad.

Of course, no one knew back when the deals were made that they would turn out THIS terribly, but the point is these guys were progressing at a reasonable rate & were dealt for negative assets, while we held on forever to stalling/negative assets.

When you have a couple 30%ers, and deal them for 10%ers, that's poor management, regardless of how each panned out.

 

[Jyrki21]

before my time, but i did have a misprinted pro set joe nieuwendyk that they fixed very quickly so it was supposed to be fairly rare

beckett had it listed at $5

and check it out, it’s held its value

View attachment 920395

That Pro Set line had a bunch of errors, with the one I remember most being their NJ mixup of Peter Stastny and Patrik Sundström:

 

[F A N]

McCann became a solid middle six player 4 years out from his draft which is reasonable for a late first round pick, and then blossomed into a bona-fide top 6 player in 2020. We gave up on him 2 years after his draft, along with more draft picks, for a replacement level dman because he's "big." That's hardly revisionist history, that's just poor management.

That deal was more nuanced than that though. Gudbranson was a "big" 24 year-old RHD coming off a season where he logged over 26 minutes in the playoffs. Gudbranson didn't improve and wasn't/isn't very good but he clearly brought perceived traits that hoodwinked other GMs including our current POHO. So while we can argue about whether he is "replacement level" he clearly wasn't seen as one or utilized as one. He's clearly enjoyed career where he's been utilized as a #5/#4. Poor pro scouting? Sure. Bad methodology (giving up McCann to acquire a 24 year old RHD coming off a relatively strong playoffs logging over 25 minutes)? Not really.

As for McCann, we kind of knew we were potentially giving up a top 6 player though. It wasn't a situation where we thought that he probably wouldn't make it. Plus if you have to be technical, he was traded for a failed prospect and a 7th round pick and wasn't protected in the expansion draft.

 

[RandV]

That deal was more nuanced than that though. Gudbranson was a "big" 24 year-old RHD coming off a season where he logged over 26 minutes in the playoffs. Gudbranson didn't improve and wasn't/isn't very good but he clearly brought perceived traits that hoodwinked other GMs including our current POHO. So while we can argue about whether he is "replacement level" he clearly wasn't seen as one or utilized as one. He's clearly enjoyed career where he's been utilized as a #5/#4. Poor pro scouting? Sure. Bad methodology (giving up McCann to acquire a 24 year old RHD coming off a relatively strong playoffs logging over 25 minutes)? Not really.

I always like to point out here that this was a 6 game series with a lot of overtime. Just doing a quick double check the top 4 of Ekblad/Campbell/Kulikov/Gudbranson all average over 25 minutes that playoffs. The #5/6 logged 21:41 and 19:55 respectively.

I think the most important thing though is that we could have just resigned Hamhuis, instead of letting him walk for nothing then paying a heft price for Gudbranson.

 

[F A N]

I always like to point out here that this was a 6 game series with a lot of overtime. Just doing a quick double check the top 4 of Ekblad/Campbell/Kulikov/Gudbranson all average over 25 minutes that playoffs. The #5/6 logged 21:41 and 19:55 respectively.

And Gudbranson logged the most minutes of the top 4. Regardless, that's not just ice time without context though. By most accounts Gudbranson had a strong playoffs. He also logged 20+ minutes in the regular season.

I think the most important thing though is that we could have just resigned Hamhuis, instead of letting him walk for nothing then paying a heft price for Gudbranson.

I don't see how that is mutually exclusive though. Hamhuis was an LHD. Gudbranson was an RHD. The mistake was not consummating the trade with Dallas or another team when we had the chance. Hamhuis was also turning 34 when he left here.

 

[RobertKron]

Holy f*** are we really going back into the Gudbranson playoff series saga?
Guys, Mitchell tweeted or whatever about how upset he was about the trade!!! Tweeted an acronym for a swear!!! On the internet!!!! That's how we know they're getting a good defenseman! You gotta trust Willie Mitchell's judgement and integrity in all things!!!

 

[LordBacon]

Holy f*** are we really going back into the Gudbranson playoff series saga?
Guys, Mitchell tweeted or whatever about how upset he was about the trade!!! Tweeted an acronym for a swear!!! On the internet!!!! That's how we know they're getting a good defenseman!

I cant give likes right now so...

take my written like instead.

 

[F A N]

Holy f*** are we really going back into the Gudbranson playoff series saga?
Guys, Mitchell tweeted or whatever about how upset he was about the trade!!! Tweeted an acronym for a swear!!! On the internet!!!! That's how we know they're getting a good defenseman! You gotta trust Willie Mitchell's judgement and integrity in all things!!!

Not my fault for participating in

 

[wetcoast]

That deal was more nuanced than that though. Gudbranson was a "big" 24 year-old RHD coming off a season where he logged over 26 minutes in the playoffs. Gudbranson didn't improve and wasn't/isn't very good but he clearly brought perceived traits that hoodwinked other GMs including our current POHO. So while we can argue about whether he is "replacement level" he clearly wasn't seen as one or utilized as one. He's clearly enjoyed career where he's been utilized as a #5/#4. Poor pro scouting? Sure. Bad methodology (giving up McCann to acquire a 24 year old RHD coming off a relatively strong playoffs logging over 25 minutes)? Not really.

As for McCann, we kind of knew we were potentially giving up a top 6 player though. It wasn't a situation where we thought that he probably wouldn't make it. Plus if you have to be technical, he was traded for a failed prospect and a 7th round pick and wasn't protected in the expansion draft.

Gudbranson was only a 26 MPG guy in the playoffs because Florida played an extra 5 OT periods in a 6 game series, it was like Bubbles mentioned a lousy trade and use of asset management at the time.

Was looking at some prospects and came across the Omsk Avangard roster and there are 5 former Canucks on there.

Omsk Avangard 2024-25 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2024-25 Omsk Avangard playing in the KHL

www.hockeydb.com

91	Linden Vey	R	19	6	12	18	12	-2	1991-07-17	33	Wakaw, SASK	6.02	189
44	Damir Sharipzyanov	D	19	2	16	18	15	-1	1996-02-17	28	Nizhnekamsk, Russia	6.02	211
66	Semyon Chistyakov	D	19	7	8	15	4	3	2001-08-07	23	Nizhny Tagil, Russia	5.11	198
86	Reid Boucher	L	12	7	6	13	18	2	1993-09-08	30	Grand Ledge, MI	5.10	191
37	Ilya Reingardt	F	19	5	4	9	12	8	2003-09-08	20		6.01	176
57	Alexei Makeyev	F	18	4	3	7	2	-5	1991-11-25	32	Novouralsk, Russia	5.09	187
51	Ryan Spooner	C	8	1	5	6	0	-3	1992-01-30	32	Ottawa, ONT	5.11	198
12	Alexander Filatyev	F	17	3	2	5	4	1	2004-01-28	20		5.10	169
2	Pavel Koledov	D	19	1	4	5	0	3	1994-09-20	29		6.01	200
22	Stanislav Galiev	L	17	2	2	4	4	-2	1992-01-17	32	Moscow, Russia	6.01	196
4	Darren Dietz	D	17	1	3	4	10	-8	1993-07-17	31	Medicine Hat, ALTA	6.02	209
14	Ivan Igumnov	F	17	1	3	4	0	-2	1996-06-29	28		5.10	185
85	Alexander Yaremchuk	C	17	0	3	3	2	-1	1999-08-22	25		5.11	191
70	Igor Martynov	L	18	2	1	3	6	-1	1999-01-19	25	Krasnoye, Belarus	5.11	191
84	Mikhail Gulyayev	D	18	2	1	3	0	-1	2005-04-26	19	Novosibirsk, Russia	5.10	171
97	Nikita Kholodilin	F	19	1	2	3	17	-3	2002-06-19	22		6.02	207
25	Dmitry Zlodeev	C	18	0	2	2	4	-5	2002-02-15	22	Voronezh, Russia	5.11	182
24	Alexey Solovyev	D	19	1	1	2	2	-7	1994-09-08	29	Moscow, Russia	6.02	202
11	Ivan Nikolishin	L	11	0	1	1	4	-2	1996-04-12	28	Hartford, CT	5.09	176
21	Cole Cassels	C	15	0	1	1	0	-6	1995-05-04	29	Hartford, CT	6.00	194
92	Artyom Murylyov	D	1	0	0	0	2	0	2002-08-25	22		6.00	183
76	Daniil Stepanov	C	3	0	0	0	0	0	2001-01-12	23	Minsk, Belarus	6.00	169
16	Yegor Manin	F	3	0	0	0	0	-1	2000-06-25	24		6.00	160
78	Pavel Leuka	C	3	0	0	0	0	-1	2003-05-15	21		6.02	203
5	Ilya Proskuryakov	G	6	0	0	0	0	0	1987-02-21	37	Surgut, Russia	6.02	198
43	Mark Verba	F	6	0	0	0	0	-1	1998-02-02	26		6.00	182
96	Sergei Boikov	D	15	0	0	0	12	-3	1996-01-24	28	Khabarovsk, Russia	6.01	202
30	Pavel Khomchenko	G	17	0	0	0	0	0	1994-10-13	29		6.01	180

 

[calnuck]

Gudbranson was only a 26 MPG guy in the playoffs because Florida played an extra 5 OT periods in a 6 game series, it was like Bubbles mentioned a lousy trade and use of asset management at the time.

Was looking at some prospects and came across the Omsk Avangard roster and there are 5 former Canucks on there.

Omsk Avangard 2024-25 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2024-25 Omsk Avangard playing in the KHL

www.hockeydb.com

91	Linden Vey	R	19	6	12	18	12	-2	1991-07-17	33	Wakaw, SASK	6.02	189
44	Damir Sharipzyanov	D	19	2	16	18	15	-1	1996-02-17	28	Nizhnekamsk, Russia	6.02	211
66	Semyon Chistyakov	D	19	7	8	15	4	3	2001-08-07	23	Nizhny Tagil, Russia	5.11	198
86	Reid Boucher	L	12	7	6	13	18	2	1993-09-08	30	Grand Ledge, MI	5.10	191
37	Ilya Reingardt	F	19	5	4	9	12	8	2003-09-08	20		6.01	176
57	Alexei Makeyev	F	18	4	3	7	2	-5	1991-11-25	32	Novouralsk, Russia	5.09	187
51	Ryan Spooner	C	8	1	5	6	0	-3	1992-01-30	32	Ottawa, ONT	5.11	198
12	Alexander Filatyev	F	17	3	2	5	4	1	2004-01-28	20		5.10	169
2	Pavel Koledov	D	19	1	4	5	0	3	1994-09-20	29		6.01	200
22	Stanislav Galiev	L	17	2	2	4	4	-2	1992-01-17	32	Moscow, Russia	6.01	196
4	Darren Dietz	D	17	1	3	4	10	-8	1993-07-17	31	Medicine Hat, ALTA	6.02	209
14	Ivan Igumnov	F	17	1	3	4	0	-2	1996-06-29	28		5.10	185
85	Alexander Yaremchuk	C	17	0	3	3	2	-1	1999-08-22	25		5.11	191
70	Igor Martynov	L	18	2	1	3	6	-1	1999-01-19	25	Krasnoye, Belarus	5.11	191
84	Mikhail Gulyayev	D	18	2	1	3	0	-1	2005-04-26	19	Novosibirsk, Russia	5.10	171
97	Nikita Kholodilin	F	19	1	2	3	17	-3	2002-06-19	22		6.02	207
25	Dmitry Zlodeev	C	18	0	2	2	4	-5	2002-02-15	22	Voronezh, Russia	5.11	182
24	Alexey Solovyev	D	19	1	1	2	2	-7	1994-09-08	29	Moscow, Russia	6.02	202
11	Ivan Nikolishin	L	11	0	1	1	4	-2	1996-04-12	28	Hartford, CT	5.09	176
21	Cole Cassels	C	15	0	1	1	0	-6	1995-05-04	29	Hartford, CT	6.00	194
92	Artyom Murylyov	D	1	0	0	0	2	0	2002-08-25	22		6.00	183
76	Daniil Stepanov	C	3	0	0	0	0	0	2001-01-12	23	Minsk, Belarus	6.00	169
16	Yegor Manin	F	3	0	0	0	0	-1	2000-06-25	24		6.00	160
78	Pavel Leuka	C	3	0	0	0	0	-1	2003-05-15	21		6.02	203
5	Ilya Proskuryakov	G	6	0	0	0	0	0	1987-02-21	37	Surgut, Russia	6.02	198
43	Mark Verba	F	6	0	0	0	0	-1	1998-02-02	26		6.00	182
96	Sergei Boikov	D	15	0	0	0	12	-3	1996-01-24	28	Khabarovsk, Russia	6.01	202
30	Pavel Khomchenko	G	17	0	0	0	0	0	1994-10-13	29		6.01	180

Man, Cole Cassels, what could have been...

 

[Jyrki21]

Was looking at some prospects and came across the Omsk Avangard roster and there are 5 former Canucks on there.

11	Ivan Nikolishin	L	11	0	1	1	4	-2	1996-04-12	28	Hartford, CT	5.09	176
21	Cole Cassels	C	15	0	1	1	0	-6	1995-05-04	29	Hartford, CT	6.00	194

^^ This is super-random too -- you have two sons of Whalers ending up there, giving you back-to-back Hartford birthplaces in the middle of Siberia.

 

[wetcoast]

^^ This is super-random too -- you have two sons of Whalers ending up there, giving you back-to-back Hartford birthplaces in the middle of Siberia.

Good eye there.

 

[F A N]

Gudbranson was only a 26 MPG guy in the playoffs because Florida played an extra 5 OT periods in a 6 game series, it was like Bubbles mentioned a lousy trade and use of asset management at the time.

Gudbranson led all Panthers' defensemen in ice time in the playoffs that year. Whether he would have logged less than 26 minutes a game but for OT is not very relevant. He also logged over 20+ minutes in the regular season.

Again, we can argue over pro scouting etc. but suggesting that we traded McCann + for what the league perceived as a replacement level asset is disingenuous.

"In Erik’s case he’s a real heart and soul guy. He’s a good dressing room guy. He’s got good character. He can protect our players, he puts us in stronger position to push back when we get into more physical games.

As you know, there’s some teams just play a skating, skill game. There are some teams that play physical. He’s going to bring that element that will help us."

 

[wetcoast]

Gudbranson led all Panthers' defensemen in ice time in the playoffs that year. Whether he would have logged less than 26 minutes a game but for OT is not very relevant. He also logged over 20+ minutes in the regular season.

Again, we can argue over pro scouting etc. but suggesting that we traded McCann + for what the league perceived as a replacement level asset is disingenuous.

"In Erik’s case he’s a real heart and soul guy. He’s a good dressing room guy. He’s got good character. He can protect our players, he puts us in stronger position to push back when we get into more physical games.

As you know, there’s some teams just play a skating, skill game. There are some teams that play physical. He’s going to bring that element that will help us."

Sure all of that is great but we were an aging team basically spinning our wheels and the addition of basically a guy who had similar value to a 38 year old Willie Mitchell at the expense of a recent first rounder who played in the NHL with junior eligibility left + a second rounder is reaching when there was zero reason for it.

 

[F A N]

Sure all of that is great but we were an aging team basically spinning our wheels and the addition of basically a guy who had similar value to a 38 year old Willie Mitchell at the expense of a recent first rounder who played in the NHL with junior eligibility left + a second rounder is reaching when there was zero reason for it.

Are you talking about Gudbranson's value at the time of the trade? If you're saying that Gudbranson at 24 years old coming off the season he did had similar value to a 38 year old Willie Mitchell then I disagree and really can't continue this conversation. If you're saying that the Canucks in summer 2016 shouldn't try and make a trade for what the team thought to be a 24 year old top 4 RHD because the team was aging and spinning their wheels then I also disagree and can't see us agreeing.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I thought the Gudbranson trade was poor value.

Sorry, but I can't hold it in any longer. Deal with it.

 

[F A N]

I thought the Gudbranson trade was poor value.

Sorry, but I can't hold it in any longer. Deal with it.

In hindsight ya. But at the time of the trade I don't think there were many here who didn't think we paid a big price for Gudbranson. To be clear, what I was responding to was the suggestion that we had given up on McCann for a replacement level Dman because he was big. That's just not true. Again, we can argue over poor scouting or Gudbranson the player being a poor target. That is different from saying trading for what the team viewed as a 24 year old top 4 RHD with size is a bad idea. Like there were a couple of years were Tanev for Lilejegren was one of the most popolar trade ideas. Brandon Carlo was talked about a lot as well. Heck we're keeping Myers for 3 more years.

 

[kanucks25]

Mikheyev picks up his 1st point, what a mistake to trade this guy. Really could have used that offense.

 

[Raistlin]