OT: Football Thread

[Brutananadilewski]

Congrats, Apple!

Because now it's the Giants, Saints, AND Bengals fanbase that now think you suck!

 

[LionsHeart]

The Bengals have to improve that offensive line. It really came back to haunt them.

I’m happy for ODB, Stafford, Weddlex and Whitworth. Staffords always been good, now he has some hardware to back it up.

 

[NYR94]

 

[EdJovanovski]

Owners and GMs have a bias towards establishment coaches (not racism). Establishment coaches are by and large white (due to historical racism). What is the solution?

I don’t think we need a solution for something that isn’t a problem. But if there were the solution is certainly not quotas or giving teams draft picks to hire minorities. Grow the game and there will be more minorities playing, and then eventually there will be more minorities in front offices

 

[EdJovanovski]

“Leave it the way it is, it’s fine for us white folks so I’m ok with it. No one should get an unfair advantage when I’m already in the lead”

There are pics of me on here I am not White.. I think it is demeaning and I would not take any job where I knew a team was being compensated for apparently disadvantaging themselves by hiring me

 

[PuckLuck3043]

“Leave it the way it is, it’s fine for us white folks so I’m ok with it. No one should get an unfair advantage when I’m already in the lead”

People should be hired on merit and talent and nothing else.

 

[sbjnyc]

There are pics of me on here I am not White.. I think it is demeaning and I would not take any job where I knew a team was being compensated for apparently disadvantaging themselves by hiring me

Wait you don't look like your avatar?

 

[romba]

There are pics of me on here I am not White.. I think it is demeaning and I would not take any job where I knew a team was being compensated for apparently disadvantaging themselves by hiring me

Major props to you, and I’ve met other non-white ppl who said the same thing, they want to fully earn their position and I respect that. But getting a foot in the old boys club is a tough process…

 

[romba]

I don’t think we need a solution for something that isn’t a problem. But if there were the solution is certainly not quotas or giving teams draft picks to hire minorities. Grow the game and there will be more minorities playing, and then eventually there will be more minorities in front offices

The NFL has been majority non-white for some time, and many non-head coach positions are minority run, head coach though has lagged and is seen more as a partner to the owner and therefore much harder to get minority ppl in it. But there were a few hires recently so maybe it’s not as much of an issue.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What an absolutely stupid & offensive idea.

What an absolutely stupid post that contributed literally nothing (no ideas or solutions) to what is a clear problem with the league.

How do you encourage development of black and minority coaches without any type of incentives? The league already gives incentives for hiring minority coaches and I am aware of no one who has ever called that "stupid and offensive."

 

[EdJovanovski]

What an absolutely stupid post that contributed literally nothing (no ideas or solutions) to what is a clear problem with the league.

How do you encourage development of black and minority coaches without any type of incentives? The league already gives incentives for hiring minority coaches and I am aware of no one who has ever called that "stupid and offensive."

You must be in an isolated bubble because the majority of people of every creed oppose that kind of racist BS you spew.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

You must be in an isolated bubble because the majority of people of every creed oppose that kind of racist BS you spew.

So, once again, you post nothing but nonsense without even attempting to address the problem. This is par for the course.

Also, calling me a racist for wanting to promote minority hiring and advancement is f***ing laughable.

 

[EdJovanovski]

So, once again, you post nothing but nonsense without even attempting to address the problem. This is par for the course.

It's not any greater a problem than the fact that the majority of NBA players being black is a "problem". I don't care what skin color people are.

Moving on

 

[nyr2k2]

People should be hired on merit and talent and nothing else.

Very true. Unfortunately, not the way it currently works, in the NFL or in most others places.

It's not any greater a problem than the fact that the majority of NBA players being black is a "problem". I don't care what skin color people are.

Moving on

That's great--if everyone operated like that, we'd be much better off. Unfortunately, again, they don't. So the choice is attempt a forcible correction or just sit the f*** back and do nothing and hope that one day the world is an equal place for everyone. I know which approach I'd rather take.

Anyway, if the NFL wants to become a more diverse institution, and they think incentivizing diversity is the way to get there, then they need to take a more holistic approach to rewarding increased organizational diversity. They need to look at front- and back-office hires in addition to the guys on the sidelines or in the booth. If you want teams to care about diversity then you need to change the actual culture; the most backwards-ass team out there can hire a minority HC and say, "see, all is well, here!" That's not really doing much to help the underlying problem. You want to see diversity in all levels of the organization, which in turn changes the way people approach situations and will then organically lead to more diverse front-facing hires. Giving out a bonus pick for hiring a black guy is kind of insulting, and again, just slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound.

I'm also done here.

 

[East Coast Bias]

“Moving on” says the poster who never posts about football but randomly appeared in the football thread when race came up.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I don’t really know what the answer is. But the problem isn’t “there aren’t qualified candidates so forcing them to hire black guys is racist”

kevin O’Connell isn’t any more qualified to be the Vikings HC than Byron Leftwich or Eric Bienemy. I don’t know why they hired him and I didn’t follow their search closely. But his resume doesn’t place him above all other OCs, that’s for sure.

 

[sbjnyc]

Giving out a bonus pick for hiring a black guy is kind of insulting, and again, just slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound.

Currently teams get bonus picks (a couple of 3rd round comp picks) for developing minority talent if they are hired to become head coach or GM. That's very different from getting a bonus pick for hiring a black guy. The problem is if you improve the bonus to make it more meaningful, would you hire a minority patriots assistant if it means giving belichick a couple of first round picks?

 

[nyr2k2]

Currently teams get bonus picks (a couple of 3rd round comp picks) for developing minority talent if they are hired to become head coach or GM. That's very different from getting a bonus pick for hiring a black guy. The problem is if you improve the bonus to make it more meaningful, would you hire a minority patriots assistant if it means giving belichick a couple of first round picks?

What you described is definitely better than just awarding picks for a minority hire. What you describe next is a definite potential pitfall.

That's why I advocate for the holistic approach where teams are rewarded for hiring, promoting, and developing diverse talent all throughout the organization. Like, the NFL's diversity problem manifests itself with coaches, coordinators, and GMs--the stuff we see--but the problem is rooted in the very cultures of the organizations themselves. Organizations that are diverse top to bottom will be much more likely to hire diverse candidates in those front-facing positions. Organizations that are more monolithic in their demographics will have a tendency to make hires that match their dominant demographic.

This is true in all industries, and none of it is rocket science or anything. I mean I do work on this stuff for a living, but I think many people (Most? Hopefully?) are aware that diversity breeds diversity and that diverse organizations are almost uniformly more innovative and higher-performing than organizations lacking in diversity. That's why so many companies that otherwise are not progressive in their business practices are increasingly looking to diversify at the top, knowing that there's actual science behind the concept that diversity is good for business (beyond the PR aspect of it).

Anyway, hopefully the NFL takes some positive steps. As I've said repeatedly, they behave as if they're beholden to no one, and it usually takes bad press threatening their bottom line, or the threat of litigation or of congressional intervention to actually get their attention and get them acting. All of those things seems to be in play here to varying degrees, so, again, hopefully something good comes of all this; the NFL has an outsized ability to influence people with their actions or lack of actions, so my hope is that they do better here than they have in the past.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Giving out a bonus pick for hiring a black guy is kind of insulting, and again, just slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound.

I'm also done here.

Is anyone suggesting giving picks to a team that hires a minority, though? My idea was to increase the 3rd round pick already given to teams developing minority candidates to a 2nd rounder.

 

[nyr2k2]

Is anyone suggesting giving picks to a team that hires a minority, though? My idea was to increase the 3rd round pick already given to teams developing minority candidates to a 2nd rounder.

I misunderstood your post, so if you're not proposing that, then no one in this thread is, from what I've seen. Though I have seen it proposed several other places.

Either way, my general point remains that while coaches/GMs/assistants are the focus of the NFL's diversity problems, the way to address it isn't just to focus on incentivizing diversity in those spaces, but all across the organization.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I misunderstood your post, so if you're not proposing that, then no one in this thread is, from what I've seen. Though I have seen it proposed several other places.

Either way, my general point remains that while coaches/GMs/assistants are the focus of the NFL's diversity problems, the way to address it isn't just to focus on incentivizing diversity in those spaces, but all across the organization.

I'm open to other types of incentives. I think the easiest for HC/GM is just upping the pick for developing candidates (3rd to a 2nd), ya know?

In the rest of the organization, I think you have to be a bit more creative. And I am not quite sure about how to fully address that.

With that said, is there really a huge issue with the rest of the positions in the league? I know on the coordinator side, there is quite a bit of minority representation. I am simply not sure about the scouting side, though, for example.

 

[sbjnyc]

Oh dear.

 

[sbjnyc]

I think dumbass is the technical term.

 

[17futurecap]

I think dumbass is the technical term.

The Jets not trading for him, and then him getting suspended is the most surprising thing.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think dumbass is the technical term.

Holy shit.