OT: Football Thread

[Boris Zubov]

I call bullshit on you calling bullshit. Phil Simms was before my time but I don't believe there's any way a QB in the 80s would be criticized more than any controversial QB in the 2020s with social media, non-stop sporting news and podcasts, and a f*** ton of sports radio. Daniel Jones didn't have a backup who was worthy of ever getting benched for. It's like saying Eli didn't get shit because he didn't get benched for Jared Lorenzon.

BTW if Simms doesn't work for you, we can also go literally across the hall at Metlife to Zach Wilson. Deservedly so, but he's getting a ton more hate these past 2 seasons than Jones ever has.

 

[East Coast Bias]

The Jets defense isnt actually good, they just have the Bills number and actually the Cardinals are really good so Danny Jones is being slandered unfairly.

 

[NickyFotiu]

This is complete hyperbole & total bullshit. I'll give you one example from the same organization. Phil Simms, before he threw for 4000 yards in 1985, took way more shit than Jones ever has. Simms was actually benched for Scott f***ing Brunner. Jones has never had to worry about a short leash since Eli retired.

I was one of Phil Simms biggest fans. In fact I have his autograph in the next room but that is not totally accurate in my opinion.

Yes Giants fans gave Phil a ton of grief on Sundays, but

1. We did not have 24 hour a day football stations back then.

2. We did not have social media or the internet back then.

3. Many people only got football stats in the Sunday paper.

4. The Giants had been losers for years. There was few expectations of those teams.

5. I actually saw Phil at a Rangers game in the green seats. This was around 1982. Nobody was bothering/recognizing him until I opened my big mouth and said hey isnt that Phil Simms?

6. By the way Phil wasn't really benched for Brunner. Phil got injured (arm/shoulder) which happened a lot early in his career. Brunner took over and we went to the playoffs. We even beat Philly in a playoff game. Then Phil blew out his knee in the next preseason. The only time Brunner actually played over a healthy Phil was in Parcells first season. I guess you could call that a benching but Phil had not been the starter for the previous 22 games so is that really a benching? Then Phil comes in under Parcells and breaks his thumb after around 10 passes. Phil just had horrible luck early in his career. Made me respect him even more. Bill Walsh said Phil should be in the HOF. His stats do not say so but that is the kind of respect Bill Walsh had for Phil.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I was one of Phil Simms biggest fans. In fact I have his autograph in the next room but that is not totally accurate in my opinion.

Yes Giants fans gave Phil a ton of grief on Sundays, but

1. We did not have 24 hour a day football stations back then.

2. We did not have social media or the internet back then.

3. Many people only got football stats in the Sunday paper.

4. The Giants had been losers for years. There was few expectations of those teams.

5. I actually saw Phil at a Rangers game in the green seats. This was around 1982. Nobody was bothering/recognizing him until I opened my big mouth and said hey isnt that Phil Simms?

6. By the way Phil wasn't really benched for Brunner. Phil got injured (arm/shoulder) which happened a lot early in his career. Brunner took over and we went to the playoffs. We even beat Philly in a playoff game. Then Phil blew out his knee in the next preseason. The only time Brunner actually played over a healthy Phil was in Parcells first season. I guess you could call that a benching but Phil had not been the starter for the previous 22 games so is that really a benching? Then Phil comes in under Parcells and breaks his thumb after around 10 passes. Phil just had horrible luck early in his career. Made me respect him even more. Bill Walsh said Phil should be in the HOF. His stats do not say so but that is the kind of respect Bill Walsh had for Phil.

You're looking back in hindsight & choosing to remember kindly how Simms was treated after the fact. If you could ask him about his time here early in his career, he's stated many times he despised it here & in fact asked to be traded.

Simms was absolutey benched by Parcells for Brunner, injuries aside. And yes Simms had awful injury luck in 81 & 82...but Parcells clearly thought Brunner was his best chance of winning to start his first season as HC. He's been quoted saying he f***ed up on that call...he laughs about it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You're looking back in hindsight & choosing to remember kindly how Simms was treated after the fact. If you could ask him about his time here early in his career, he's stated many times he despised it here & in fact asked to be traded.

Simms was absolutey benched by Parcells for Brunner, injuries aside. And yes Simms had awful injury luck in 81 & 82...but Parcells clearly thought Brunner was his best chance of winning to start his first season as HC. He's been quoted saying he f***ed up on that call...he laughs about it.

I know Phil got a lot of boos. So did the whole team for a decade but it was a different information era. It wasn't 24/7/365 sports. In many ways that era was more enjoyable for me. It was really cool to get the Sunday paper with a full page of NFL stats.

Parcels did play Brunner over Phil originally but my point was if Brunner was the starter for the previous 16 regular season games and 2 playoff games is it really a benching at that point? It could be called a benching if you prefer but the full context is Brunner played the previous 1.5 seasons based on Phils injuries. Then when Parcels put Phil in he got injured again. I will never put Phil down. He was my favorite of all time. While the situations have some similarities they aren't identical. Phil is a DJ supporter.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Full stop. The newspapers actually had sports sections full of writers assigned to each team who weren't afraid to ask hard questions & putting tons of pressure on local athletes. There was a reason players in all sports back then despised playing in the NYC market...the media was ruthless. Sports radio was literally all over NY when Simms was playing. Now the papers are basically irrelevant...Jones can avoid social media & the idiots that go along with it pretty easily if he's not a sadist. Back then Simms was constantly reminded by all the writers & even more so by his coach that he was a bust. Every Monday for his first 3 seasons he was on the back page of every paper in the city. Then he would constantly be featured in NFL Films bloopers getting chewed out by Parcells or Ray Perkins. This went on for over 5 years until he finally broke out in '84.

BTW your Eli example is f***ing absurd. Eli received tons of well earned criticism and deserved to be benched plenty.

And all of that still represents a drop in the bucket of the sports coverage players get nowadays.

As far as my Eli example you seemed to not understand it. That's my point exactly. He deserved to get benched but didn't (until Geno Smith late in his career) because he had no one worthy of benching him for early on in his career. Just like Jones. That's why Eli and Jones haven't been benched and Simms was.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

BTW if Simms doesn't work for you, we can also go literally across the hall at Metlife to Zach Wilson. Deservedly so, but he's getting a ton more hate these past 2 seasons than Jones ever has.

By Jets fans I guess maybe but Daniel Jones around the league is a punchline way more than Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson is probably too shitty to be a punchline. Criticism isn't 100% correlated with performance. For example a guy like Kirk Cousins has been a fantastic QB for years and has gotten far more hate than far worse QBs. But if you'd like I'll ammend to "undeserved hate" rather than just hate.

 

[Boris Zubov]

And all of that still represents a drop in the bucket of the sports coverage players get nowadays.

As far as my Eli example you seemed to not understand it. That's my point exactly. He deserved to get benched but didn't (until Geno Smith late in his career) because he had no one worthy of benching him for early on in his career. Just like Jones. That's why Eli and Jones haven't been benched and Simms was.

LOL at the bolded. When I said Simms was benched for Scott Brunner, I meant that he was demoted to backup before the '83 season began. Look up Brunner's numbers, then google some of his career highlights....if you can find any. When I meant Eli should've been benched early in his career, I meant sat in a game, not have his job taken away from him. The only season that should've realistically happened was in his rookie year when Kurt Warner had the team 5-4 as a starter & they decided it was time for Eli to start. They gave up a shot at the playoffs when it was clear he wasn't ready. At the end, his skills were eroding, but the OL was shit for 7 years & McAdoo was a complete sham as a HC. Anyway, we're talking in circles & we're not going to agree.

By Jets fans I guess maybe but Daniel Jones around the league is a punchline way more than Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson is probably too shitty to be a punchline. Criticism isn't 100% correlated with performance. For example a guy like Kirk Cousins has been a fantastic QB for years and has gotten far more hate than far worse QBs. But if you'd like I'll ammend to "undeserved hate" rather than just hate.

Jones is not a bigger punchline than Wilson. Absolutely NOBODY with a brain thinks that. That was the point of my reply, you just always need to speak in extremes & absolutes. If you were a Jet fan, you'd be saying Wilson gets the most hate ever. Plenty of QBs over the years have taken just as much shit, if not more than, Jones...deserved or not. Meanwhile Wilson is currently getting more shit than Jones, but somehow that's irrelevant to you because he actually sucks. Sigh. I should know better not to get into it with you. Next time I'll just let you rant undisturbed. Carry on.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

LOL at the bolded. When I said Simms was benched for Scott Brunner, I meant that he was demoted to backup before the '83 season began. Look up Brunner's numbers, then google some of his career highlights....if you can find any. When I meant Eli should've been benched early in his career, I meant sat in a game, not have his job taken away from him. The only season that should've realistically happened was in his rookie year when Kurt Warner had the team 5-4 as a starter & they decided it was time for Eli to start. They gave up a shot at the playoffs when it was clear he wasn't ready. At the end, his skills were eroding, but the OL was shit for 7 years & McAdoo was a complete sham as a HC. Anyway, we're talking in circles & we're not going to agree.


Jones is not a bigger punchline than Wilson. Absolutely NOBODY with a brain thinks that. That was the point of my reply, you just always need to speak in extremes & absolutes. If you were a Jet fan, you'd be saying Wilson gets the most hate ever. Plenty of QBs over the years have taken just as much shit, if not more than, Jones...deserved or not. Meanwhile Wilson is currently getting more shit than Jones, but somehow that's irrelevant to you because he actually sucks. Sigh. I should know better not to get into it with you. Next time I'll just let you rant undisturbed. Carry on.

Let's say Wilson is getting more shit than Jones, how is him actually sucking not relevant? If Jones just sucked it would be deserved. But it's not. Hence I'm complaining. Jones is not elite enough to lift a porous offensive line and limited weapons against the best defenses in the league. That's his biggest issue.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

So Broncos, ey? lmfao

 

[NickyFotiu]

For all the sky is falling stuff both the Jets and Giants are only 1 game out of the playoff race. The season is so young. Things can change for good and bad as the season goes along.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

Some here know I am a Dolphins fan. That game was insane. It kinda got awkward. We tried to run the ball into the line in the 4th but no one wanted to tackle Achene. Felt bad for the broncos. Glad we didn’t kick the FG at the end.

 

[will1066]

The Broncos and Sheffield United were one and the same yesterday.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

BTW, I've never heard players from opposing teams say that a QB sucks and is overpaid. Please tell me more how Jones doesn't get the most hate in the NFL.

 

[will1066]

I don't really follow football so I went to check out Daniel Jones. Wow, it's like a 5-year-old trying to draw Chris Kreider's Rangers headshot.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I don't really follow football so I went to check out Daniel Jones. Wow, it's like a 5-year-old trying to draw Chris Kreider's Rangers headshot.

View attachment 746084

on a related note, what is the integral of neck to the neck power?

probably not barry trotz

 

[Bob Richards]

Daniel Jones could be Bruce Campbell from his Evil Dead era.

Groovy.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If Zach Wilson never takes another snap for the Jets... I will be a happy man.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The irony of all the people upset with Zach is imo Rodgers would have been a sitting duck if he was behind the Jets line. I believe he slowed down a lot. Once other teams saw that they would tee off to get himm

 

[17futurecap]

The irony of all the people upset with Zach is imo Rodgers would have been a sitting duck if he was behind the Jets line. I believe he slowed down a lot. Once other teams saw that they would tee off to get himm

The offensive line graded out all well yesterday, I know you hate Rodgers, but the Jets win this game with him and 30 other quarterback’s yesterday.

 

[will1066]

The offensive line graded out all well yesterday, I know you hate Rodgers, but the Jets win this game with him and 30 other quarterback’s yesterday.

I watched the first half before turning it off. Wilson had better pocket protection yesterday. Still didn't open up space for the running game but that's different story.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The offensive line graded out all well yesterday, I know you hate Rodgers, but the Jets win this game with him and 30 other quarterback’s yesterday.

While I'm not a Rodgers fan I do not hate him. I do not hate any NFL player. Would the Jets have won yesterday's game? Possibly but I'm not sure Rodgers would have survived vs Dallas. He looked like he was slowing fast to me.

 

[17futurecap]

 

[UnSandvich]

Hated the pick at the time, but that Jordan Love pick is starting to look pretty good for the Packers lol.

 

[SA16]

While I'm not a Rodgers fan I do not hate him. I do not hate any NFL player. Would the Jets have won yesterday's game? Possibly but I'm not sure Rodgers would have survived vs Dallas. He looked like he was slowing fast to me.

The o-line thing is so overrated. Plenty of qbs have had good seasons behind poor lines. The problem is Zach has horrible decision making. Anyone competent can compensate for it