Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade for Erik Johnson. 2024 4th round pick to Buffalo

[GKJ]

Buyers

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[Jack Straw]

Their goal was only to make people stop actively hating them

Well if that’s the case then they failed miserably.

 

[GKJ]

Well if that’s the case then they failed miserably.

No they didn’t. Nice to think about though.

 

[Tripod]

Not every deal that happened today was on the table for Philadelphia.

Did they use up their phone call allotment this year too?

 

[Jack Straw]

No they didn’t. Nice to think about though.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Did they use up their phone call allotment this year too?

We find out later that they missed a trade from being stuck in the Comcast loop of agent support hell

 

[trostol]

I have yet to see any clear indication of anything that resembles a rebuild..and I do not mean tear it down and tank thing

 

[mercury]

I don't care for this move, but some people are losing their minds over a 4th rounder for a veteran UFA defenseman, and it's childish. Have this fit if they re-sign Johnson for 2-3 years after a decent playoff run.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't care for this move, but some people are losing their minds over a 4th rounder for a veteran UFA defenseman, and it's childish. Have this fit if they re-sign Johnson for 2-3 years after a decent playoff run.

I decided to read back several pages to discover these "childish fits" and the most bitter complaining and stuff most resembling "childish fits" has been coming from the people pretending there is excessive complaining. Weird how that works. The thread consists of people saying "I don't like this" by and large, what's unreasonable or fit-like about that?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

There were enough better options if you wanted to add a veteran D for depth for around the same price. This move screams Tortorella

 

[Magua]

Hathaway, Poehling were good signings.

The Tippet extension is a positive right now.

The Provorov trade was successful
The Walker trade was a success.

Hathaway is a 2 year deal -- it means nothing to building a contender. It was a fine signing though, but I doubt he gets traded. I'd bin Poehling in the positives for sure, and I liked that signing last summer as much as anyone. Poehling should make Laughton expendable and yet....

I don't love Tippett for 8 years -- he's all athleticism, and I'm not sure he has another level. It's OK though. I certainly didn't grumble about it.

I don't think the Provorov trade tree looks that good. They already used the 1st and 2nd on Bonk and a goalie; Grans is a nothing. They have a 2025 2nd and now the Walker COL 1st. But they also took on Johansen (for an extra year for $4MM) and Petersen (2 x $5MM) as dumps with term, which I don't think they appropriately valued, especially Petersen.

There are wins here.

But a lot of what you deem "wins" also come with needed context. I repeat: losing value selling is harder to see than losing value buying because you're still gaining assets. For the people who talk about larger scale moves mattering more, I don't like what happened with how they went about the Gauthier trade, and they passed up a 1+2 for Laughton. Sanheim should be in St. Louis right now. It's not like the big moves, or their vision for them, are so wonderful. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop with these picks (and guys like Frost).

I don't see how this team is any closer to contending today. Trading for a 5th to dump a 4th sums things up on the micro-level. The best thing was Michkov being unwilling to sign with other teams, which wasn't exactly an active decision by the Flyers.

 

[Starat327]

Ok, so now Brierre has made his one bad trade. That's out of the way...don't do it ever again.

I'm not sure you know how numbers work.

 

[Striiker]

See? I told you Charlie had a burner on here.

I’m doing just fine. No problem with the moves and we will see what happens at the draft - maybe a Laughton or Risto move, we’ll see. What im not doing is having a little meltdown in here about a 4th round pick or signing nick seeler. Take a deep breath.

 

[hockeynormy]

Nobody is having a meltdown. And the last few weeks the bulk of the whining has been a handful of posters sobbing nonstop about other posters not leaking effusive praise for everything the team does. Maybe....stop?

So people saying “I hate this effing team so much” for the last few days because Seeler got an extra year at $2.7m isn’t having a meltdown? Lol

Do you read the posts here

 

[Beef Invictus]

So people saying “I hate this effing team so much” for the last few days because Seeler got an extra year at $2.7m isn’t having a meltdown? Lol

Do you read the posts here

So you're talking, what, two posts? Three? And deciding that represents everyone here?


I think what you're doing is vastly more unreasonable and meltdowny.

 

[mercury]

I decided to read back several pages to discover these "childish fits" and the most bitter complaining and stuff most resembling "childish fits" has been coming from the people pretending there is excessive complaining. Weird how that works. The thread consists of people saying "I don't like this" by and large, what's unreasonable or fit-like about that?

As usual, you are a disingenuous jackass.

"HATE this teams direction"

"Go home, we're drunk."

"What f*** the actual, Branny?"

"Danny just got fleeced damn"

"What the f*** are you doing Danny!"

"WHAT ARE THEY DOING"

"This GM is so f***ing awful"

"Staal Johnson will be the worst pair in Flyers history"

"At least we have clarity on one thing: Danny Briere is a f***ing clown GM."

"This trade makes me absolutely furious"

 

[Fight4yourRight]

It’s been crystal clear that besides “culture” for the sake of culture, Briere and Jones are intent on getting the younger guys some playoff time while under the influence of “cultured” players like Laughton, Seeler, etc. This affected their valuation and decision making process when it came to trade v sign. EJ is by all accounts a good guy. Is this quantifiable? I.e do the extra games, playoff experience early-ish in the development arc change the trajectory down the road? Logic says yes even without “cultured guys” around but surely not even a generous valuation will excuse paying a 4th here..

Anyone who has worked in any environment knows what an intensive course, apprenticeship or secondment can add to your experience and make you less likely to flail the next opportunity that comes along. What makes this somewhat inconsistent is that they clearly aren’t interested in giving all their guys, (eg Frost early, now Brink), the same opportunity and we have Torts clearly vocalizing he isn’t interested in development, only wins. And we know the power he wields.

 

[eramosat]

I have yet to see any clear indication of anything that resembles a rebuild..and I do not mean tear it down and tank thing

Take a look at the retained salary, buyouts and buried penalties against the Flyer's cap. Ever since they started loading them up, they were in rebuild mode. No team can compete at all with all the cap Flyers spent in those areas.

Ever since Hayes went on it, for $3.5M x3 more years, the die was pretty much cast. Adding DeAngelo and Petersen to it for 2 more seasons themselves made it official. Those 3 alone were over $9M in cap, for 2 full seasons.

That's what a rebuild looks like, in black & white. And it's only been added to since then, and somewhat heavily i.e RyJo. Hopefully...nothing will be added that leaks into 2026-27, or beyond...except perhaps that Risto deal...it's a doozie of a pickle.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It’s been crystal clear that besides “culture” for the sake of culture, Briere and Jones are intent on getting the younger guys some playoff time while under the influence of “cultured” players like Laughton, Seeler, etc. This affected their valuation and decision making process when it came to trade v sign. EJ is by all accounts a good guy. Is this quantifiable? I.e do the extra games, playoff experience early-ish in the development arc change the trajectory down the road? Logic says yes even without “cultured guys” around but surely not even a generous valuation will excuse paying a 4th here..

Anyone who has worked in any environment knows what an intensive course, apprenticeship or secondment can add to your experience and make you less likely to flail the next opportunity that comes along. What makes this somewhat inconsistent is that they clearly aren’t interested in giving all their guys, (eg Frost early, now Brink), the same opportunity and we have Torts clearly vocalizing he isn’t interested in development, only wins. And we know the power he wields.

I do agree with this to a point. It’s a solid one too.

However think many of us have also been around lazy, and incompetent people that have an easier time just because they are more experienced.

I can see the benefits, but at some point if I’m Attard, Zamula or Brink id be annoyed that I have to work twice as hard.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Take a look at the retained salary, buyouts and buried penalties against the Flyer's cap. Ever since they started loading them up, they were in rebuild mode. No team can compete at all with all the cap Flyers spent in those areas.

Ever since Hayes went on it, for $3.5M x3 more years, the die was pretty much cast. Adding DeAngelo and Petersen to it for 2 more seasons themselves made it official. Those 3 alone were over $9M in cap, for 2 full seasons.

That's what a rebuild looks like, in black & white. And it's only been added to since then, and somewhat heavily i.e RyJo. Hopefully...nothing will be added that leaks into 2026-27, or beyond...except perhaps that Risto deal...it's a doozie of a pickle.

I think you need to commit to one path. If they aren’t going to tank out (even if I disagree), then imo they should be even more aggressive than they are right now. I don’t mean moves for this attempt at playoff run, but next summer they damn well better be aggressive in trying to move this forward.

This perpetual middle ground retool is a waste of time. Want to be aggressive? Then so be it, but nothing proper is being built waiting for 15th overall, or later first round draft picks.

They have what remains of Couturier, and a productive Konecny. Not a lot, but they should have learned what just letting guys age out of peak years leads to.

If they aren’t going to do a proper rebuild, which is beyond obvious. Then be aggressive next summer. Start moving picks for impactful assets, and save your cap space for actual available talent.

This is the Hextall plan 2.0, a half ass measure of trying to play both sides.

 

[eramosat]

By the way. Now that trade deadline is done...does anyone know if there's any downside to just moving Ellis to LTIR, and making other roster moves easier from cap perspective?

Like, if they want to retrieve Risto's $5.1M to the regular season roster, which other wise might be a bit wacky to make happen?

 

[mr4tno]

It’s been crystal clear that besides “culture” for the sake of culture, Briere and Jones are intent on getting the younger guys some playoff time while under the influence of “cultured” players like Laughton, Seeler, etc. This affected their valuation and decision making process when it came to trade v sign. EJ is by all accounts a good guy. Is this quantifiable? I.e do the extra games, playoff experience early-ish in the development arc change the trajectory down the road? Logic says yes even without “cultured guys” around but surely not even a generous valuation will excuse paying a 4th here..

Anyone who has worked in any environment knows what an intensive course, apprenticeship or secondment can add to your experience and make you less likely to flail the next opportunity that comes along. What makes this somewhat inconsistent is that they clearly aren’t interested in giving all their guys, (eg Frost early, now Brink), the same opportunity and we have Torts clearly vocalizing he isn’t interested in development, only wins. And we know the power he wields.

what younger guys? Forrester, Frost, Tippet? They are going to be fielding a team that consists of a 34 yo ND, 35 yo Atkinson, 35 yo Johnson and a 38? yo Stall. All of whom suck beyond compare. And this is a rebuild year! That is all you need to know about this ass-backward organization. And I'm leaving out the good stuff -- (1) a coach who is a dinosaur and on a good day acts like an ass, (2) A GM who trained under Fletcher and the Wharton executive MBA program and (3) a POHO who was previously an announcer

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Johnson being a wash with a 5th instead of a 4th is exactly what some people mean when they say the larger point is being missed. It could have been a 3rd or a 6th and my take wouldn’t change. The player sucks. I don’t care what the cost was. I’m fine with trading away picks. Just get good players. Spend more to do it if that’s what it takes.

Hathaway was a weird age choice, but he’s a good depth player. Great. No complaints from me.

 

[Starat327]

Johnson being a wash with a 5th instead of a 4th is exactly what some people mean when they say the larger point is being missed. It could have been a 3rd or a 6th and my take wouldn’t change. The player sucks. I don’t care what the cost was. I’m fine with trading away picks. Just get good players. Spend more to do it if that’s what it takes.

Hathaway was a weird age choice, but he’s a good depth player. Great. No complaints from me.

Go to reddit corn boy

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Go to reddit corn boy

On my way to /r/tvtoohigh to get far angrier than I do about the Flyers.

 

[eramosat]

I think you need to commit to one path. If they aren’t going to tank out (even if I disagree), then imo they should be even more aggressive than they are right now. I don’t mean moves for this attempt at playoff run, but next summer they damn well better be aggressive in trying to move this forward.

This perpetual middle ground retool is a waste of time. Want to be aggressive? Then so be it, but nothing proper is being built waiting for 15th overall, or later first round draft picks.

They have what remains of Couturier, and a productive Konecny. Not a lot, but they should have learned what just letting guys age out of peak years leads to.

If they aren’t going to do a proper rebuild, which is beyond obvious. Then be aggressive next summer. Start moving picks for impactful assets, and save your cap space for actual available talent.

This is the Hextall plan 2.0, a half ass measure of trying to play both sides.

Some thoughts.

Konecny's treatment will be a big fork in the road. That's where a version of "Flyer rebuild mode" rubber will meet the road. He's not like Tippet, or Sanheim, or any other recent l/t signing that was somewhat questionable to 3-4 year rebuild...he's already a bona fide star asset that you can flip for a haul.

Decision on Couts much less so, he's quite difficult to move in any case until he demonstrates he's fully back from injury, and even then, moving such a long and expensive contract, for a 30+year old? It's not nearly as easy to do as trading TK for their preference of picks or players. As I have said before on this forum...the only comparable I can recall is, sadly, Ellis...

Maybe they will do what you suggest...move picks for impact players starting next summer. Maybe they use picks themselves instead. And maybe it will be informed by how the roster, and specific players, performs. Yes, it's mushy, and vague.

To me, it seems very hard not to play both sides. The ship turns slowly...