Confirmed with Link: Flyers sign Noah Cates to ELC (March 27, 2022)

[Striiker]

Yeah, some scoring in a tiny sample, where he's shooting 22.73% and has an on-ice sh% of 12.37%, sure proves he's not a bottom 6 forward.

 

[FLYguy3911]

He has a higher PPG in the NHL than he did in college this year.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Hey hows he been this year so far? was a nice goal last week or whatever.

 

[Curufinwe]

I wish he would change his number.

 

[Curufinwe]

0.91 ESP/GP after 29 games and 394 minutes at center under Torts.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

Last season playing wing he averaged 2.49 ESP/GP in 16 games and 192 minutes.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

 

[deadhead]

Cates has been pretty solid, last 19 games (first 10 were a clusterf---- for everyone):

CF 50.24%, xGF 50.66%, xGFrel +2.81.
But he's only scoring 0.99 pp/60 at 5x5.
Part of the problem is linemates, I'd expect his scoring to increase with Hayes and TK, rather than MacEwen.
Part of the problem may simply be he's not a playmaker, and is better in a complementary role.

I'm curious to see Brink in April? I think he could raise the game of some of our centers with his playmaking skills.

 

[Magua]

Among the NHL forwards with >300 minutes, Cates has the 7th worst ES p/60, 8th worst iCF/60, 7th worst A1/60 (he has 1). It's gaslighting by the coaches telling fans that he's doing all the little stuff and everything is peachy with him as a top 6 center.

I believe in the player long-term, at LW as a versatile depth piece, but I also believe he's being used as something he's not to his own detriment. We even have Tortorella saying he's a center now, forever and ever. And for some reason, it's hunky dory. He's probably dragging his oft-linemate Laughton down with him to some degree, with him at 13th worst in ES p/60.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates has been pretty solid, last 19 games (first 10 were a clusterf---- for everyone):

CF 50.24%, xGF 50.66%, xGFrel +2.81.
But he's only scoring 0.99 pp/60 at 5x5.
Part of the problem is linemates, I'd expect his scoring to increase with Hayes and TK, rather than MacEwen.
Part of the problem may simply be he's not a playmaker, and is better in a complementary role.

I'm curious to see Brink in April? I think he could raise the game of some of our centers with his playmaking skills.

Wait a minute. We heard all about how Frost should be producing with MacEwen, now he's the excuse for Cates? Amazing stuff

 

[deadhead]

Even after his big game, Frost is 1.04 pp/60 the last 19 games to Cates' 0.99.
Both centers are over their heads in the top six, both centers have had subpar linemates until the last few games.

Problem is Laughton just isn't a center outside of a 4C forechecking role.
Hayes can score for both teams at center.
Sedlak is a solid 4C, could probably be a 3C with better wings than Deslauriers, MacEwen or Brown.

We don't have a 1C or a 2C, so Frost and Cates have been forced into those roles.
Cates - Frost - Tippett would probably be a heck of a 3rd line, now if we could just get Couts back, Gauthier develop as a center, TK, Farabee, Hayes and Brink as top 6 wings.
Unfortunately, if we don't get Berard, is there another top 6 caliber center in the top 10?

Which is probably a good argument to trade Provorov for a young center with upside.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Even after his big game, Frost is 1.04 pp/60 the last 19 games to Cates' 0.99.
Both centers are over their heads in the top six, both centers have had subpar linemates until the last few games.

Problem is Laughton just isn't a center outside of a 4C forechecking role.
Hayes can score for both teams at center.
Sedlak is a solid 4C, could probably be a 3C with better wings than Deslauriers, MacEwen or Brown.

We don't have a 1C or a 2C, so Frost and Cates have been forced into those roles.
Cates - Frost - Tippett would probably be a heck of a 3rd line, now if we could just get Couts back, Gauthier develop as a center, TK, Farabee, Hayes and Brink as top 6 wings.
Unfortunately, if we don't get Berard, is there another top 6 caliber center in the top 10?

Which is probably a good argument to trade Provorov for a young center with upside.

So glad we signed Hayes to that contract so he can fill that #2 center spot

 

[deadhead]

Hayes was fine with AV, problem is Torts' puts a lot more emphasis on skating and defense.
If Couts returns, it'll be interesting to see how he fares, whether he can skate near 100%.

Hayes still has a solid future as a wing, I think he started as a RW before moving to center in NY.
On the wing, he doesn't have to skate as much and has more limited defensive responsibilities.
Which is why he may work well with Cates, who is more limited offensively but responsible defensively at center.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Hayes was fine with AV, problem is Torts' puts a lot more emphasis on skating and defense.
If Couts returns, it'll be interesting to see how he fares, whether he can skate near 100%.

Hayes still has a solid future as a wing, I think he started as a RW before moving to center in NY.
On the wing, he doesn't have to skate as much and has more limited defensive responsibilities.
Which is why he may work well with Cates, who is more limited offensively but responsible defensively at center.

Do you actually believe any of the stuff that you type?

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Good on rookie winger, Cates, who's never played Center in the NHL, for resurrecting the career of Chuck's biggest acquisition. Who was supposed to plug the 2C hole left by Hexy (the scouts!), and now might be better suited for the wing. This team is next level.

 

[Rebels57]

Do you actually believe any of the stuff that you type?

How many more years of his act before people see it for what it is and stop taking the bait? 5? 10? 20?

 

[Curufinwe]

Even after his big game, Frost is 1.04 pp/60 the last 19 games to Cates' 0.99.

And when we don't break the current season into arbitrary small samples, the rates are:

Frost - 1.53 ESP/60 in 29 games - 354:04

Cates - 0.88 ESP/60 in 30 games - 410:51.

 

[deadhead]

And when we don't break the current season into arbitrary small samples, the rates are:

Frost - 1.53 ESP/60 in 29 games - 354:04

Cates - 0.88 ESP/60 in 30 games - 410:51.

First ten games were a clusterf--- for everyone. The team clearly turned around after that point, so nothing arbitrary at all, took a while to play the way Torts wanted them to play.

The next inflection point is probably the last four games since JVR returned, because the lines finally stabilized, and both Frost and Cates had better linemates. So check back in a month or two.

 

[Curufinwe]

The team hasn't turned around at all. They are getting beat like a drum.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Ignore that larger sample size because it conflicts with the BS that i'm trying to spew.

 

[Curufinwe]

They are forcing the square peg of an exciting two-way winger prospect into the round hole of the Flyers #1 center spot, and all his points are getting sheared off in the process.

 

[deadhead]

They aren't "forcing" anything.
Who else would you play at center?

And in the long run, the experience will increase the value of Cates, being able to play center as well as LW.
Cates has been solid, last 20 games (I'm sticking to this):
CF 50.37%, xGF 50.83%, xGF 2.21.
He's not producing a lot of offense, but we'll see if that changes playing with Hayes and TK on a regular basis.

His future is probably similar to Laughton, less speed, higher IQ, 2LW/3C.

 

[Curufinwe]

They aren't "forcing" anything.
Who else would you play at center?

I dunno. Maybe the guy you spent three plus years saying was a solid free agent center signing by Fletcher?

 

[deadhead]

I dunno. Maybe the guy you spent three plus years saying was a solid free agent center signing by Fletcher?

Hayes was before his injuries, he's a little slower now, in a scheme that puts a premium on speed and defense at center.

He can still be a solid winger, it'll take a little adjusting, but he has the scoring skills, and the reduced defensive responsibilities and less skating will be a better fit.

 

[Magua]

Yeah, Sedlak and Brown and Cates ooze speed at the center ice position. I love a shifting narrative: Hayes’ points are up because he’s healthy now, what a player! But also: he’s permanently slower, crippled really, and will never play the center ice position again — a darn shame. And yet, he’s also one of the better puck carriers.

I’d love for someone to even tell me what the scheme is that requires speed. Because there is no speed on the roster. They don’t play fast.

 

[Curufinwe]

I guess Couturier is going straight in at 3LW when he gets back.

 

[DAVIDE1333]

Yeah, Sedlak and Brown and Cates ooze speed at the center ice position. I love a shifting narrative: Hayes’ points are up because he’s healthy now, what a player! But also: he’s permanently slower, crippled really, and will never play the center ice position again — a darn shame. And yet, he’s also one of the better puck carriers.

I’d love for someone to even tell me what the scheme is that requires speed. Because there is no speed on the roster. They don’t play fast.

The scheme may require speed but their record shows they don't have it.