Proposal: Flyers/Leafs Hart and Provorov for Marner, Engvall and Murray

[Rich Nixon]

I'm just going to set aside value here for a sec: look at the Flyers' roster. Now remove Hart and Provorov.

Do you see something that the addition of Mitch Marner turns into a Cup contender?

Marner would be solid gold rims on a '71 Pinto.

There's this too. The Flyers are utterly bereft of talent...and maybe the only place they really have it right now is at RW. If they want to be good at hockey eventually, they need legit NHL centers--maybe even good ones! Maybe Gauthier's a guy, but they need a lot of help there beyond that.

My unrealistic megatrade dream would be that the Oilers continue to suck and finally decide they need to Try Something Different and then you wrap up Hart, Provorov, and whatever mountain of prospect talent and high picks you may find to pull Draisatl. But that isn't gonna happen, and even if it did, they don't even have the goods to not be outbid by the majority of the league.

 

[brokenwolf88]

Hard pass from the leafs. We already have a hard time scoring in the playoffs now the best winger is gone.

I can get behind the right Marner trade but only if theres a succession plan in place.

 

[Jerkbait]

How else should his trade value be evaluated? By last year's play rather than his current play?

Listen, I think both teams say no. TO probably should take the deal since it'll help them more, IMO. But Marner is the best player by a lot. This deal just doesn't help Philly moving forward the way Hart + the saved cap space probably can.

Marner play been better as of late and he is by far the best player in this trade and losing him will hurt Toronto more than anyone thinks.

I think anyone who has spent a significant amount of time watching Hart play goalie (and the Flyers not play defense) knows pretty well who he is. Goalies are mercurial, but on a half-decent team his floor is kinda "above average starter" and his ceiling is "will be top 3 in the league for a few years at some point in his career." He's fundamentally rock solid. Not crazy athletic, just reads plays unbelievably well. Real-deal NHL starter at a young age, and one who has had to truly earn most of his wins in the league to date.

He honestly doesn't have to get much "better." He just needs to be playing on a real NHL team with real NHL players, coaches, and training staff.

Goalies don't have much trade value, though. Really good ones who are his age? Who knows.

Hart on Vegas, Hart on Toronto, Hart on Philly....same goalie. Same result. He is a mid level guy. He isnt vask or Igor. He isnt in the next tier below either. He behind jarry , markstrom, demko etc...
Yes Colorado won with a average goalie but that's an elite team with only one opening. Hart isn't goimg to push a mid level team over that hump....aleast nothing yet shows this .

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Marner play been better as of late and he is by far the best player in this trade and losing him will hurt Toronto more than anyone thinks.

Hart on Vegas, Hart on Toronto, Hart on Philly....same goalie. Same result. He is a mid level guy. He isnt vask or Igor. He isnt in the next tier below either. He behind jarry , markstrom, demko etc...
Yes Colorado won with a average goalie but that's an elite team with only one opening. Hart isn't goimg to push a mid level team over that hump....aleast nothing yet shows this .

This year, he isn't a mid-level guy. He's a young goalie (24 years old) and theoretically he could be going into his prime at this very moment.

There's only been 1 goalie who has had a subpar career that has had the pedigree Carter Hart has - and it's Jim Carey. Otherwise, goalies that follow Hart's path always succeed. Carter Hart will succeed in the NHL at a high level continuously.

But that being said, I don't think Philly or Toronto says yes. Toronto gives up the best player, but Philly doesn't need the best player right now where they're at with franchise planning. If that was the case, they would've just signed Gaudrea and called it a day.

 

[Jerkbait]

This year, he isn't a mid-level guy. He's a young goalie (24 years old) and theoretically he could be going into his prime at this very moment.

There's only been 1 goalie who has had a subpar career that has had the pedigree Carter Hart has - and it's Jim Carey. Otherwise, goalies that follow Hart's path always succeed. Carter Hart will succeed in the NHL at a high level continuously.

But that being said, I don't think Philly or Toronto says yes. Toronto gives up the best player, but Philly doesn't need the best player right now where they're at with franchise planning. If that was the case, they would've just signed Gaudrea and called it a day.

Succeed is much much different than being a top tier guy. There is absolutely nothing that suggest he will be a top tier guy .
He could easily like a Patrick lalaime...or a matt Murray...or a Felix potvin...but he lacks that initial success. The building block isn't there . He has been better this season but again a mid level # 1 at best.
There isn't anything that's gonna change that.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I mean... he doesn't though.

Hart has the 2nd highest xGA/60 in the league only behind Gibson, yet has the 5th best SV% in the league. Ullmark on the other hand has the 2nd lowest xGA/60 in the league. Hart's also 5th in HDSA and has the 2nd highest HDSV% only behind Georgiev, Ullmark has the 8th least HDSA.

This is what happens when you are bailing your team out of every game vs when your team in general is playing incredible in front of you, the 2 of them aren't remotely on the same level of play

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Toronto is bottom 10 in Goals For per game - how does this help us, again?

Our goalies have actually been good.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Hart on Vegas, Hart on Toronto, Hart on Philly....same goalie. Same result. He is a mid level guy. He isnt vask or Igor. He isnt in the next tier below either. He behind jarry , markstrom, demko etc...

You're guessing and you're wrong.

 

[Jerkbait]

You're guessing and you're wrong.

He ranks 15th and 9th in GAA and save percentage.
His #s last year were much worse ...stats back up what iam saying. He is a mid level goalie , has been for a while and nothing shows He will be any different...
You predicting and your predicting wrong!!!

 

[ManofSteel55]

That's a pretty bad deal for Philly. If you think Hart looks bad behind their blueline...well, let's just say that we know what happens with Murray when he is on awful teams.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Hart isn't goimg to push a mid level team over that hump....aleast nothing yet shows this .

Says who? Nobody has seen what Hart can do on a real team with a decent defense in front of him. Put him on a contender and he would probably be a candidate for the Vezina.

 

[AvroArrow]

 

[Evergreen]

Torts would hate Engvall so much.

 

[Jerkbait]

Says who? Nobody has seen what Hart can do on a real team with a decent defense in front of him. Put him on a contender and he would probably be a candidate for the Vezina.

Or he could do what he is now ...mid level...

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

The Flyers shouldn't allow the worst GM in pro sports to make ANY trade. Every single move he's made has made the team worse. Except the lateral Voracek/Atkinson trade that will leave the Flyers with one extra year of a contract on a player who isn't even playing...so ya, it's worse too.

 

[mja]

The Flyers shouldn't allow the worst GM in pro sports to make ANY trade. Every single move he's made has made the team worse. Except the lateral Voracek/Atkinson trade that will leave the Flyers with one extra year of a contract on a player who isn't even playing...so ya, it's worse too.

Literally every move he's made has put the team in a worse position than they were before he made it. It's f***ing uncanny.

 

[cwede]

Look at Flyers last 45 years, look at Leafs incentive to do this deal, and its clear a linchpin goalie is more valuable, to a team's ongoing success, than a scoring wing.
Flyers won't be moving Hart...

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Look at Flyers last 45 years, look at Leafs incentive to do this deal, and its clear a linchpin goalie is more valuable, to a team's ongoing success, than a scoring wing.
Flyers won't be moving Hart...

Leafs wouldn't move Marner for two good but not great players.

 

[Craig Button]

you need to add Hayes,Konecny and a 1st round pick

 

[Phion Keneuf]

This year, he isn't a mid-level guy. He's a young goalie (24 years old) and theoretically he could be going into his prime at this very moment.

There's only been 1 goalie who has had a subpar career that has had the pedigree Carter Hart has - and it's Jim Carey. Otherwise, goalies that follow Hart's path always succeed. Carter Hart will succeed in the NHL at a high level continuously.

But that being said, I don't think Philly or Toronto says yes. Toronto gives up the best player, but Philly doesn't need the best player right now where they're at with franchise planning. If that was the case, they would've just signed Gaudrea and called it a day.

So Hart is one year younger than Samsonov. Same can be said about Sammy then, no? This trade still makes zero sense for the Leafs.

 

[34]

What a joke, BIG NO from Toronto.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

The Flyers shouldn't allow the worst GM in pro sports to make ANY trade.

Sadly, the Flyers have no control over Doobler.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So Hart is one year younger than Samsonov. Same can be said about Sammy then, no? This trade still makes zero sense for the Leafs.

No - the same cannot be said about Samsonov.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

No - the same cannot be said about Samsonov.

Why not?

Goalie A:
25 years old
Drafted 22nd overall in 2015
58-24-8
2.76 GAA
.904 save %

Goalie B:
24 years old
Drafted 48th overall in 2016
68-66-20
2.95 GAA
.906 save %

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Why not?

Goalie A:
25 years old
Drafted 22nd overall in 2015
58-24-8
2.76 GAA
.904 save %

Goalie B:
24 years old
Drafted 48th overall in 2016
68-66-20
2.95 GAA
.906 save %

If you dismiss the part where Cart Hart’s pedigree his whole life is on a different level than Samsonov, then yeah their stats look similar I guess? (Whatever that means)