Flyers "Flight Plan": Behind the Scenes Draft Video

[Grant McCagg]

I was thinking the older guy was from the Q. He really did seem to like Morin a lot.

I completely disagree with a lot of the rankings on their board, but I like and respect that they put the guys where they truly think and go with it. They definitely didn't just play it by the book and go with the consensus rankings.

I'll have to tell Todd he was referred to as the "young guy" on here...he's 50 years old.

Todd isn't a Q scout - he's one of Philly's two "crossover scouts" - in other words - one of the top three scouts on the team. He travels all over the world to scout players, he's at the Ivan Hlinka as we speak.

Keep in mind that scouting agency's draft lists are often quite different form NHL lists, and NHL lists can also vary quite a bit. I had Shinkaruk ranked 23rd overall for The Hockey News rankings..there were some teams that wouldn't have taken him in the first at all.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Well, it was only 8 minutes, and the scouts had already had their big post season meetings too. This was only snippets.

Nolet holds great sway and he and Q scout Todd Hearty saw Morin a lot. OHL scout Dennis Patterson is the interesting one. He loves Morin's upside over Nurse and Monahan from his territory. Patterson would've had huge input into Laughton last year, and he is turning out to be a good pick.

As a Flyer fan, if Nolet and Patterson think Morin was 6th best, and they got him at 11, it was a good day.

Patterson is Philly's head scout - Hearty is one of their two crossover scouts. They are two of the team's top three scouts.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Thanks for the clarification Grant.

Are the Flyers scouts that you know "old school"? Because in the short clip, they mostly talked about Morin's grit, meanness, etc., rather than skill (I'm assuming that talk was all done in previous meetings). Just curious to see if the guys you know in the Flyers org. put a greater emphasis on that type of player.

But then again, they had Mueller pretty high and he isn't known as a bruiser.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Thanks for the clarification Grant.

Are the Flyers scouts that you know "old school"? Because in the short clip, they mostly talked about Morin's grit, meanness, etc., rather than skill (I'm assuming that talk was all done in previous meetings). Just curious to see if the guys you know in the Flyers org. put a greater emphasis on that type of player.

But then again, they had Mueller pretty high and he isn't known as a bruiser.

I would call that a fair description. Holmy likes toughness and character as do some of the top scouts. I would say the Flyers have a preference for size and toughness. Mind you Hagg can play pretty casually and Mantha is not very gritty (yet they ranked him 16th) sometimes they make exceptions...and in Mantha's case he brings size and a scoring touch.

Domi being ranked more than ten spots after Zadorov, Morin and Mueller gives you an idea about the club's emphasis on size.

 

[do0glas]

i gotta be honest, after watching that first episode, i question if these guys have a clue. maybe its because a camera was on them, but they just seemed lost most of the clip .

and they only watch highlighted players 13 times? is that live? because their should be video avaliable of every game to these guys, so i wonder if they are doing their due diligence on most of these kids

 

[Grant McCagg]

i gotta be honest, after watching that first episode, i question if these guys have a clue. maybe its because a camera was on them, but they just seemed lost most of the clip .

and they only watch highlighted players 13 times? is that live? because their should be video avaliable of every game to these guys, so i wonder if they are doing their due diligence on most of these kids

Yes that is live, and 13 times is quite a few viewings. The majority of scouts do not study video, especially crossover scouts - they are more than busy enough seeing live games 5+ days per week, and they will all tell you there is no substitute for seeing the players live.

 

[do0glas]

Yes that is live, and 13 times is quite a few viewings. The majority of scouts do not study video, especially crossover scouts - they are more than busy enough seeing live games 5+ days per week, and they will all tell you there is no substitute for seeing the players live.

well most of them still seemed lost in there. guys do we want morin up? ....silence...i like his grit and meanness...cool.

im sure they are more than capable of scouting these guys, they just didnt breed much confidence in that video.

 

[Grant McCagg]

well most of them still seemed lost in there. guys do we want morin up? ....silence...i like his grit and meanness...cool.

im sure they are more than capable of scouting these guys, they just didnt breed much confidence in that video.

I never mentioned the video in my post..why did you quote me so you could add more about their supposed incompetence? I wouldn't get worked up about it..most of them are not used to being on camera, and we're being guarded in what they said. The part that concerned me more than anything was Pryor mentioning that they could make changes right before their pick. To me you go into the draft with a set list and draft the top guy left on your list regardless of what happens ahead of you.

 

[do0glas]

I never mentioned the video in my post..why did you quote me so you could add more about their supposed incompetence? I wouldn't get worked up about it..most of them are not used to being on camera, and we're being guraded in what they said. The part that concerned me more than anything was Pryor mentioning that they could make changes right before their pick. To me you go into the draft with a set list and draft the top guy left on your list regardless of what happens ahead of you.

because i thought we were discussing the video...you know what this whole thread is about?

jesus sorry.

and im not trying to say they are incompetent. which i said at the end of my post that im sure they are more than capable of scouting these kids. the video just didnt paint a pretty picture.

 

[Random Forest]

because i thought we were discussing the video...you know what this whole thread is about?

jesus sorry.

and im not trying to say they are incompetent. which i said at the end of my post that im sure they are more than capable of scouting these kids. the video just didnt paint a pretty picture.

Imagine if someone came into your workplace and put up cameras and clipped microphones to your collar. Would you not be a little awkward or uncomfortable and a little more apprehensive about the things you say?

Keep in mind this is just one meeting of many, and it was basically cut to make Morin appear in the absolute best possible light. I can guarantee you that they had more revealing conversations about each and every one of those players where they dissected their decision making, potential, etc.

 

[do0glas]

Imagine if someone came into your workplace and put up cameras and clipped microphones to your collar. Would you not be a little awkward or uncomfortable and a little more apprehensive about the things you say?

Keep in mind this is just one meeting of many, and it was basically cut to make Morin appear in the absolute best possible light. I can guarantee you that they had more revealing conversations about each and every one of those players where they dissected their decision making, potential, etc.

I did allude to that possibility in my first post. I hope they reveal more of those insights later, but i understand that they want a lot of their decision making process kept in the dark.

Im just surprised im the only one that got a chuckle out of the blank stares after his first question.

 

[Grant McCagg]

because i thought we were discussing the video...you know what this whole thread is about?

jesus sorry.

and im not trying to say they are incompetent. which i said at the end of my post that im sure they are more than capable of scouting these kids. the video just didnt paint a pretty picture.

Yes I know what the thread is about...again....why bother quoting me only to talk about something different altogether, namely your outlook (once again) on how they didn't satisfy your vision of how a draft discussion would take place? When I quote someone - I respond to what that person has said..not what I said previously..you may has well have quoted yourself. Do you know what message boards are all about? I won't bother adding the condescending laugh emoticon or sarcastically apologize.

As the next poster said...there were many draft discussions, and I can guarantee you that they weren't that awkward as they didn't involve being filmed...usually draft discussions are kept very private. Obviously there was some scripting involved.

 

[do0glas]

Yes I know what the thread is about...again....why bother quoting me only to talk about something different altogether, namely your outlook (once again) on how they didn't satisfy your vision of how a draft discussion would take place? When I quote someone - I respond to what that person has said..not what I said previously..you may has well have quoted yourself. Do you know what message boards are all about? I won't bother adding the condescending laugh emoticon or sarcastically apologize.

As the next poster said...there were many draft discussions, and I can guarantee you that they weren't that awkward as they didn't involve being filmed...usually draft discussions are kept very private. Obviously there was some scripting involved.

alright man, youre going wayyyy overboard here.

SORRY.

youre getting worked up for no reason

as for my "vision"...meh whatever. if that was scripting, the writers did a terrible job.

EDIT: just to add, if you reading my posts i was merely commenting on the picture that the video painted. said several times im sure those guys know what they are doing. I think people reading my posts are thinking im attacking philly's scouting dept. ...nope just the video and the picture it painted.

everyone take a deep breath.

 

[JVR21]

well most of them still seemed lost in there. guys do we want morin up? ....silence...i like his grit and meanness...cool.

im sure they are more than capable of scouting these guys, they just didnt breed much confidence in that video.

They also cut out an obviously significant amount of video to make it 10 minutes. Clearly more goes into it than what was shown.

 

[do0glas]

They also cut out an obviously significant amount of video to make it 10 minutes. Clearly more goes into it than what was shown.

yes, i get that.

hopefully they add footage of stuff that isnt actually readily obvious to everyone.

 

[Chainshot]

I like that it seems very candid rather than being more polished like the Sabres one that came out the previous week. This is more of the nuts-and-bolts of building the list and a glimpse of how the Flyers do it.

Different teams do different things. One day, everyone will understand that differences in each list can be dramatic -- it doesn't make one right or one wrong to have a variance, it simply makes one unique. We won't know for 3-5 years to know for most of these draftees anyway.

 

[do0glas]

I dont know the flyers depth chart very well, but it seemed like they were drafting from a positional need, is this the case?

 

[Analyzer*]

I dont know the flyers depth chart very well, but it seemed like they were drafting from a positional need, is this the case?

Possibly. If you take HF's rankings, then they did poor drafting as Morin is ranked 4th I believe.

Just in prospect pools, the Flyers are pretty bad in the forward group. However, when you have Schenn and Couturier in the NHL, it's not really a big deal.

To me, the Flyers drafted a big guy who can skate, be physical, has a mean streak and can even chip in offensively. I'd guess and say they saw a poor man's Pronger in Morin.

 

[flyershockey]

I dont know the flyers depth chart very well, but it seemed like they were drafting from a positional need, is this the case?

Sort of. I think they established their top 5-6 guys that they would take in order if any were available to them. After that, they heavily ranked the defensmen with the intention of selecting the best possible one that was available to them. The Flyers have a huge organizational need for a potential top pairing defenseman. Well, to be honest, they need more of just about everything, but defensemen are definitely at the top of the list.

 

[flyershockey]

Possibly. If you take HF's rankings, then they did poor drafting as Morin is ranked 4th I believe.

Just in prospect pools, the Flyers are pretty bad in the forward group. However, when you have Schenn and Couturier in the NHL, it's not really a big deal.

To me, the Flyers drafted a big guy who can skate, be physical, has a mean streak and can even chip in offensively. I'd guess and say they saw a poor man's Pronger in Morin.

The flyers could use a top flight wing prospect, but other than that, defensemen and another goaltending prospect or two are the definite needs.

 

[do0glas]

They did go heavy on D. I usually hear the BPA schtick preached more often than not. especially given that unless they are extremely talented, youre looking at 3 years or so until they are skating on nhl ice.

they intially had monahan on top in their rankings. obviously he went before their pick, maybe they knew he would and he wasnt good enough to trade up for? I really hope they take us a level deeper, very surface level stuff.

though, i dont expect them to, simply because nhl teams treat this stuff like its national security.

for instance, SJ moved up to get mueller because there was "perceived" interest from DET. it was really just an educated guess about what type of guy DET would want to take. Although the narrative at the time was the CBJ was going to take him at 19. So i guess if deep insights about scouting line of thought get out it would just enhance other teams on draft day.

 

[dawkins121]

Possibly. If you take HF's rankings, then they did poor drafting as Morin is ranked 4th I believe.

Just in prospect pools, the Flyers are pretty bad in the forward group. However, when you have Schenn and Couturier in the NHL, it's not really a big deal.

To me, the Flyers drafted a big guy who can skate, be physical, has a mean streak and can even chip in offensively. I'd guess and say they saw a poor man's Pronger in Morin.

They aren't exactly rich in d-men either, and like you said they don't have anyone like Schenn or Couturier on the big club either. The Flyers brass always says their draft philosophy is best player available and in the past that has seemed to have been the way their drafts have played out (like taking Laughton, a gritty two way center in the 1st round last year instead of pretty much any other position), but judging soley based on that 10 minute clip and how they moved multiple raw d-men in front of a seemingly consenus top 10 pick in Monahan, it seems like need definitely played a part.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

i gotta be honest, after watching that first episode, i question if these guys have a clue. maybe its because a camera was on them, but they just seemed lost most of the clip .

and they only watch highlighted players 13 times? is that live? because their should be video avaliable of every game to these guys, so i wonder if they are doing their due diligence on most of these kids

13 times is quite a lot to see a player, I think most see them between 3-6 times but everyone is different. If you see a player to many times you start to pick apart the smallest weakness in player & it causes you to over analyze them. As Hakan Andersson said:

“Usually it takes about two to three games. One game is not much to go on since the player could have the best or worst game of his career. But you don’t want to see a guy more than 10 times either. If you do, then there is a big risk that you’ll start picking on the player’s minor weaknesses.â€

So obviously some scouts don't need or want to see a player much more than that, 13 times. And most of these guys go to see the live, it's harder to scout over video than it is live.

 

[Larry44]

Sort of. I think they established their top 5-6 guys that they would take in order if any were available to them. After that, they heavily ranked the defensmen with the intention of selecting the best possible one that was available to them. The Flyers have a huge organizational need for a potential top pairing defenseman. Well, to be honest, they need more of just about everything, but defensemen are definitely at the top of the list.

It's also a happy coincidence that when they are interested in D, it turns out to be one of the best drafts in years for Dmen. There were a whole bunch of guys they could have picked at 11 who would have been fine and for whom an argument of BPA was possible.

Last year everyone wanted them to pick a d, and Maatta fell to their spot, but they took Laughton instead - and that's looking like a very move as he's a dynamite prospect. But with him and Couturier, they really don't need another two-way C, so I'm glad they got th guy their very well regarded scouts picked as the consensus best player in the range.

In terms of the overall prospect pool, we can always use players at every position, but since have so many good young forwards on the team, it was nice to get both Morin and Hagg this year year to go with a couple good D prospects last year.

 

[Larry44]

Patterson is Philly's head scout - Hearty is one of their two crossover scouts. They are two of the team's top three scouts.

Thanks for the insight, Grant. That's funny, because I thought Patterson was the head scout, but he was ID'd in the video gels as 'OHL scout' and Hearty as 'QMJHL Scout'....


In the article on their website they broke it down like this:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=675644

Doing the heavy lifting on the later rounds of the draft are several key scouts.

The trio handling the CHL (Canadian Junior Leagues) are former Flyer Mark Greig (WHL), Dennis Patterson (OHL) and Todd Hearty (QMJHL).

All three also crossover and see each other’s teams and work in concert to discuss potential prospects, but all still have their own opinions and often lobby harder for the players in their primary territory if a debate arises.

----

In Europe, the tandem is former Flyer Ilkka Sinisalo and Matti Kautto with recently hired Antero Niittymaki hoping on board as a European goaltending scout. Neil Little is primarily the North American goalie scout, although if you’ve read his blog, you see he’s been all over the world.

In Russia Ken Hoodikoff and Vaclav Slansky do the scouting while here in the U.S. the collegiate ranks are handled by John Riley and Ross Fitzpatrick. The United States Hockey League, the top major U.S. junior league, is manned by Wade Clarke, son of Flyers great Bob Clarke.

Andre Beaulieu, Jack McIlhargey, Al Hill and Simon Nolet round out the staff with Flyers legend Bill Barber helping out as a consultant.

Plus Bill Meltzer mentioned they hired a new Swedish scout, Joakim Grundberg , who they had consulted on Hagg.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...-Their-Swedish-Scouting/45/53056#.UgWNxqxLiVo