Flint Firebirds 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Savard18]

Yeah, we would all rather this guy be gone. As long as it wasn't anyone on ice, couldn't care less what actually happens to this dude.

....and it’s unlikely someone just makes that up in this scenario. Then again John Vanbiesbrouck still has a job.

 

[Toldyaso]

Unless the team has some evidence making them believe this isnt true, how has he not been fired already.

I expect they are waiting for the league determination. Accusations must be accompanied by evidence. It is not required that the accused must provide a evidence of their innocence. Why would the fire him over an unproven accusation?

 

[Savard18]

Oh. Some stuff deleted huh? Yeah, nobody here is gonna cry if he gets canned but let’s let the process play out. Unfortunately like I said, I find it unlikely it’s something that was just made up out of thin air and just the accusation alone even IF it’s untrue will have negative light shone on the club and a possible hinderance on recruiting. Big win today. Was traveling. Just started the replay to watch it now.

 

[Savard18]

Y’know...here’s the really messed up part and something I find ironic...that Branch who suspended Rolf, placed his own son as GM, then his son parts ways with the organization PUBLICLY announces that the complaint came through their player channels. Who was scratched? Who was around TC? Branch basically just sold out 1, 2, 3? players who are likely Firebirds. Right? If THAT’s how this played out, that’s kind of BS on Branch’s part whether it’s true or false or a little of both and he can’t be ignorant of that fact. Maybe he’s hurt his kid had years and couldn’t get the team better than what was going to be a 4-5 seed and somehow Rolf and TC have them lining up for a division title in year one.

 

[Firebrd828]

...Rico been getting a lot of time on the OHL homepage lately. That Firebirds/Firefighter jersey off to his right is slick. I’ve never seen one of those before. Not sure how I would have missed it if it was worn in a game...

That jersey is from the annual Guns-n Hoses game (police vs. fire) that is held for charity prior to a Firebirds game. Rico, of course, plays for the Fire team. The Police team usually comes out ahead, mostly because Jim Duhart plays for them.

 

[Otto]

Y’know...here’s the really messed up part and something I find ironic...that Branch who suspended Rolf, placed his own son as GM, then his son parts ways with the organization PUBLICLY announces that the complaint came through their player channels. Who was scratched? Who was around TC? Branch basically just sold out 1, 2, 3? players who are likely Firebirds. Right? If THAT’s how this played out, that’s kind of BS on Branch’s part whether it’s true or false or a little of both and he can’t be ignorant of that fact. Maybe he’s hurt his kid had years and couldn’t get the team better than what was going to be a 4-5 seed and somehow Rolf and TC have them lining up for a division title in year one.

I saw that Westhead reported that Branch confirmed what Westhead had already told us, can you post Branch's public statement?

 

[Toldyaso]

I saw that Westhead reported that Branch confirmed what Westhead had already told us, can you post Branch's public statement?

I'm not sure that an actual public statement from Branch yet exists. This is what Westhead posted on his twitter feed attributed to Branch but no notation of the source..

Noteable: David Branch offered detail on the genesis of the OHL's investigation of Flint Firebirds president Terry Christensen.
Branch said OHL commissioned an "independent investigation" after a player reached out via its "player communications tool" to report alleged incident.

Like I said in every one of my deleted posts on the subject the league is dealing with it. Let them investigate and make a determination.

 

[Otto]

This is what Westhead posted on his twitter feed.



Like I said in every one of my deleted posts on the subject the league is dealing with it. Let them investigate and make a determination.

So Branch hasn't "PUBLICLY" announced anything. He confirmed a report. Big difference.

 

[Toldyaso]

So Branch hasn't "PUBLICLY" announced anything. He confirmed a report. Big difference.

Nope appears every single mention of this is coming from Westhead. I haven't been able to find a single public statement attributable to Branch or the league concerning it. All that is known at this time seems to be what Westhead has posted to his twitter feed. If you accept Westhead's posts as accurate than I suppose you could make the assumption that Branch made a public comment to someone concerning the situation but as of right now there doesn't appear to be any official public statements concerning the situation from Branch or the League. At least nothing a good google search can come up with.

 

[Otto]

Nope appears every single mention of this is coming from Westhead. I haven't been able to find a single public statement attributable to Branch or the league concerning it. All that is known at this time seems to be what Westhead has posted to his twitter feed. If you accept Westhead's posts as accurate than I suppose you could make the assumption that Branch made a public comment to someone concerning the situation but as of right now there doesn't appear to be any official public statements concerning the situation from Branch or the League. At least nothing a good google search can come up with.

And that's what I was commenting on. The court of public opinion is always going to be there.. it's been around longer than social media. It is what it is. But it doesn't help to further cloud things with misinformation. That's why I asked

 

[Toldyaso]

And that's what I was commenting on. The court of public opinion is always going to be there.. it's been around longer than social media. It is what it is. But it doesn't help to further cloud things with misinformation. That's why I asked

I get it. I'm not a fan of twitter as a source for definitive news. I don't participate in twitter and essentially consider it gossip. Sometimes there is some truth there but mostly it is just a lot of noise. None of us know anything other than our team is having a great season and certainly does not exhibit any signs of a team in turmoil. I am confident the league will deal with it if there is anything there to deal with.

 

[Otto]

I get it. I'm not a fan of twitter as a source for definitive news. I don't participate in twitter and essentially consider it gossip. Sometimes there is some truth there but mostly it is just a lot of noise. None of us know anything other than our team is having a great season and certainly does not exhibit any signs of a team in turmoil. I am confident the league will deal with it if there is anything there to deal with.

Not sure if you're aware of the track record of Rick Westhead.. he's generally bang on. It would be completely out of character for him to post something untruthful.

 

[Toldyaso]

Not sure if you're aware of the track record of Rick Westhead.. he's generally bang on. It would be completely out of character for him to post something untruthful.

I honestly have never heard of him until now. I never said it was untruthful I just said it is twitter therefore it goes in my maybe file until corroborated. In this case by a statement from the league. My point to he who shall remain nameless is an accusation is not sufficient. It has to be investigated by the league in this case and corroborated. The whole torches and pitchforks attitude by people who have no vested interest in the Firebirds organization is becoming tiring.

 

[Otto]

I honestly have never heard of him until now. I never said it was untruthful I just said it is twitter therefore it goes in my maybe file until corroborated. In this case by a statement from the league. My point to he who shall remain nameless is an accusation is not sufficient. It has to be investigated by the league in this case and corroborated. The whole torches and pitchforks attitude by people who have no vested interest in the Firebirds organization is becoming tiring.

As fans we have a vested interest in the league.

Regarding Westhead, you know that whole Chicago Blackhawks sexual abuse scandal? That was as a result of his work.

 

[Toldyaso]

As fans we have a vested interest in the league.

Certainly the fans have a vested interest in the league that is true but we aren't talking about the league. We are talking about one member of that league. As a season ticket holder since the Firebirds inaugural season in Flint (7 seasons now) I think my vested interest in the Flint Firebirds might just be a little more than fans around the league generally speaking. I for one do not drop into other teams forums to troll them when they are having some problems. I am confident the league will deal with this whatever it turns out to be.

 

[Otto]

Certainly the fans have a vested interest in the league that is true but we aren't talking about the league. We are talking about one member of that league. As a season ticket holder since the Firebirds inaugural season in Flint (7 seasons now) I think my vested interest in the Flint Firebirds might just be a little more than fans around the league generally speaking. I for one do not drop into other teams forums to troll them when they are having some problems. I am confident the league will deal with this whatever it turns out to be.

Who exactly is trolling?

 

[Toldyaso]

It is also curious that none of these characters show up in the Flint forum until they have a negative issue to troll the Flint fans with. There are a select few that visit the forums to congratulate us on our team's success on *cough*Hockeypops*cough for example is one of those but there is a select group who only show up to troll and flame and they have made their obligatory visits this past weekend. It is actually very predictable who they will be. almost all of their posts were deleted yesterday and truthfully some of them deserved a vacation for what they posted. The amount of hate and negativity exhibited toward Firebirds fans from Non Firebird fans around the league is troubling.

That is about all I have to say about the topic let this be the end of the discussion.

 

[Otto]

It is also curious that none of these characters show up in the Flint forum until they have a negative issue to troll the Flint fans with. There are a select few that visit the forums to congratulate us on our team's success on *cough*Hockeypops*cough for example is one of those but there is a select group who only show up to troll and flame and they have made their obligatory visits this past weekend. It is actually very predictable who they will be. almost all of their posts were deleted yesterday and truthfully some of them deserved a vacation for what they posted. The amount of hate and negativity exhibited toward Firebirds fans from Non Firebird fans around the league is troubling.

That is about all I have to say about the topic let this be the end of the discussion.

So you're arguing about deleted posts?

 

[Savard18]

As fans we have a vested interest in the league.

Regarding Westhead, you know that whole Chicago Blackhawks sexual abuse scandal? That was as a result of his work.

Which is why I used the term “Publicly”. Confirming it to a reputable source/news reporter, whatever is about as close as you can get to publicly. I guess I could have phrased it different but that’s pretty much a public admission. As far as the rest, yes there are your regular trolls who only show up when there’s something negative and anything negative gets blown up larger if it involves Flint. If this was let’s say Oke in Peterborough or whatever, there would not be a whole separate thread started for it. It would be discussed in the Pete’s thread. Yet, there it is for Flint. If Luke Cavallin had the Tucker Tynan allegations, everybody would still be all over it etc. I’ve stated that I find it unlikely this was made up and if it is’nt, I think TC needs to be let go. Still, let’s see what actually comes out.

 

[TcNorth]

We have enough flaming here of Flint fans flaming other Flint fans. although less lately. If true Terry C. must be let go! The question is, will Rolf do it?

 

[E27914]

We have enough flaming here of Flint fans flaming other Flint fans. although less lately. If true Terry C. must be let go! The question is, will Rolf do it?

One of the GM's role is to be human resources for players, if racial comments were made to or about a player or opposing player than I think TC will need to reprimanded for it. Players need to feel safe on their teams and be protected from these types of comments. If a player made a comment to another player, the league would address it. Why would the league treat a GM any differently?

FBs are on a roll, so I hope this negativity doesn't impact their play.

On a positive note great win against Guelph yesterday. Poor Othmann took a punch in the face then a puck. Thankfully he seemed to be okay and was back out on the ice.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I honestly have never heard of him until now. I never said it was untruthful I just said it is twitter therefore it goes in my maybe file until corroborated. In this case by a statement from the league. My point to he who shall remain nameless is an accusation is not sufficient. It has to be investigated by the league in this case and corroborated. The whole torches and pitchforks attitude by people who have no vested interest in the Firebirds organization is becoming tiring.

A few points.

First, Rick Westhead is one of the most highly respected and ethical investigative journalists in North America today. He is a genuine credit to his profession and to call him “credible” is a profound understatement — don’t be surprised when he wins a Peabody, which in my view is long overdue.

Second, Westhead did not cast ANY aspersions on the Flint franchise. Rather, he reported straight, dispassionate facts about an allegation in simple W5 (Who, What, When, Where, Why) journalistic format, with appropriate corroboration from the league commissioner.

On March 05: “Flint Firebirds president Terry Christiensen is suspended and under investigation by OHL for allegedly making an inappropriate racial comment about a player. OHL Commissioner David Branch confirms league rec'd complaint Feb. 20 and says results of probe to be announced this week.”

On March 06: “David Branch offered detail on the genesis of the OHL's investigation of Flint Firebirds president Terry Christensen. Branch said OHL commissioned an ‘independent investigation’ after a player reached out via its ‘player communications tool’ to report alleged incident.”

That’s it. Westhead does not pre-judge Terry Christensen, nor does he publish a single disparaging word about the Flint franchise.

Now, there is some additional context required.

In early 2020, the Canadian Hockey League (the three major junior leagues in Canada) commissioned a 3rd-party, 100% independent panel to examine discrimination, harassment and abuse in major junior hockey. This panel is known in CHL circles by the acronym “IRP” (Independent Review Panel).

The members of the IRP were former New Brunswick Premier Camille Theriault; co-founder of the Respect Group, Sheldon Kennedy; and former police investigator and Canadian women’s hockey icon, Danielle Sauvageau. The hon. Mr. Theriault chaired the panel.

The Independent Review Panel’s Report is pretty clear that THE most significant problem is the pervasive, ingrained culture of silence that prevents people from speaking up. One of the IRP’s most important recommendations is for the CHL leadership at the league and club level to reject their “ingrained culture of silence” and embrace transparency as a virtue that creates public trust and puts player well-being first.

I wish the Flint Firebirds and the franchise’s devoted fans absolutely no ill will. But please, do not shoot the messenger (Westhead) or the league’s (slow)movement towards greater transparency.

 

[Toldyaso]

A few points.

First, Rick Westhead is one of the most highly respected and ethical investigative journalists in North America today. He is a genuine credit to his profession and to call him “credible” is a profound understatement — don’t be surprised when he wins a Peabody, which in my view is long overdue.

Second, Westhead did not cast ANY aspersions on the Flint franchise. Rather, he reported straight, dispassionate facts about an allegation in simple W5 (Who, What, When, Where, Why) journalistic format, with appropriate corroboration from the league commissioner.

On March 05: “Flint Firebirds president Terry Christiensen is suspended and under investigation by OHL for allegedly making an inappropriate racial comment about a player. OHL Commissioner David Branch confirms league rec'd complaint Feb. 20 and says results of probe to be announced this week.”

On March 06: “David Branch offered detail on the genesis of the OHL's investigation of Flint Firebirds president Terry Christensen. Branch said OHL commissioned an ‘independent investigation’ after a player reached out via its ‘player communications tool’ to report alleged incident.”

That’s it. Westhead does not pre-judge Terry Christensen, nor does he publish a single disparaging word about the Flint franchise.

Now, there is some additional context required.

In early 2020, the Canadian Hockey League (the three major junior leagues in Canada) commissioned a 3rd-party, 100% independent panel to examine discrimination, harassment and abuse in major junior hockey. This panel is known in CHL circles by the acronym “IRP” (Independent Review Panel).

The members of the IRP were former New Brunswick Premier Camille Theriault; co-founder of the Respect Group, Sheldon Kennedy; and former police investigator and Canadian women’s hockey icon, Danielle Sauvageau. The hon. Mr. Theriault chaired the panel.

The Independent Review Panel’s Report is pretty clear that THE most significant problem is the pervasive, ingrained culture of silence that prevents people from speaking up. One of the IRP’s most important recommendations is for the CHL leadership at the league and club level to reject their “ingrained culture of silence” and embrace transparency as a virtue that creates public trust and puts player well-being first.

I wish the Flint Firebirds and the franchise’s devoted fans absolutely no ill will. But please, do not shoot the messenger (Westhead) or the league’s (slow)movement towards greater transparency.

Just read through this and I want to congratulate you on commenting on literally nothing I have actually said. You make many reasonable points but you do it quoting me as if I said something to the contrary. Each point I either said something similar or I made no comment about at all. Again it is getting tiring.

 

[Toldyaso]

If true Terry C. must be let go! The question is, will Rolf do it?

And if the negative Neds will get their heads out of their butts and read my actual previous comments they will see that is the core of what I've been saying. Rolf will not have a choice. The league will dictate what remedial action will be taken. Rolf will have to comply and I personally think he will. I don't think he's going to defy the league over TC.

 

[Agent 53]

A few points.

First, Rick Westhead is one of the most highly respected and ethical investigative journalists in North America today. He is a genuine credit to his profession and to call him “credible” is a profound understatement — don’t be surprised when he wins a Peabody, which in my view is long overdue.

Second, Westhead did not cast ANY aspersions on the Flint franchise. Rather, he reported straight, dispassionate facts about an allegation in simple W5 (Who, What, When, Where, Why) journalistic format, with appropriate corroboration from the league commissioner.

On March 05: “Flint Firebirds president Terry Christiensen is suspended and under investigation by OHL for allegedly making an inappropriate racial comment about a player. OHL Commissioner David Branch confirms league rec'd complaint Feb. 20 and says results of probe to be announced this week.”

On March 06: “David Branch offered detail on the genesis of the OHL's investigation of Flint Firebirds president Terry Christensen. Branch said OHL commissioned an ‘independent investigation’ after a player reached out via its ‘player communications tool’ to report alleged incident.”

That’s it. Westhead does not pre-judge Terry Christensen, nor does he publish a single disparaging word about the Flint franchise.

Now, there is some additional context required.

In early 2020, the Canadian Hockey League (the three major junior leagues in Canada) commissioned a 3rd-party, 100% independent panel to examine discrimination, harassment and abuse in major junior hockey. This panel is known in CHL circles by the acronym “IRP” (Independent Review Panel).

The members of the IRP were former New Brunswick Premier Camille Theriault; co-founder of the Respect Group, Sheldon Kennedy; and former police investigator and Canadian women’s hockey icon, Danielle Sauvageau. The hon. Mr. Theriault chaired the panel.

The Independent Review Panel’s Report is pretty clear that THE most significant problem is the pervasive, ingrained culture of silence that prevents people from speaking up. One of the IRP’s most important recommendations is for the CHL leadership at the league and club level to reject their “ingrained culture of silence” and embrace transparency as a virtue that creates public trust and puts player well-being first.

I wish the Flint Firebirds and the franchise’s devoted fans absolutely no ill will. But please, do not shoot the messenger (Westhead) or the league’s (slow)movement towards greater transparency.

Thanks for joining us Rick.

Can you elaborate on the situation with TC?

We were all very disappointed to see him brought back once Rolf got control of the team again. It’s been a nice season up until this point, out of sight, out of mind, had almost forgot her was here until this news broke.