Flint Firebirds 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)
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It was absolutely attitude with Rowe that’s a fact. And everyone is aware there are other players who want out, that’s no secret, because the players are vocal about it. Players wanted out even before Rowe came. My guess is some won’t be returning after Christmas.
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My point is I don’t buy the whole “attitude” bs. Gretz is super vocal about wanting out every game in the room. So isn’t that bad attitude. Heard the same about Gordeev. Now hearing the first rounder in London is getting scratched every game, just a matter of time before he has “attitude “. Now perfetti wants out of Saginaw, and I heard he has attitude. I just don’t buy it. Look at the crap about Merkley. Kid was full of attitude. Nobody wanted him was the word. He was “destructive and not coachable” yet he went first round in nhl draft. Sorry don’t buy it.
You don’t have to buy it, but you have to question why Hunter scratched his 1st rounder so much? Rowe then comes to Flint plays in every game and still gets released. It can only be 1 of 2 things.
I have very little interest in watching C level pro hockey. I might show up for a game every now and then but I'm not paying for season tickets (which will most likely be more expensive) to spend all year watching a league where 6 or 7 guys might end up being bottom 6 forwards or 5-6 D in the NHL. Not interested. While I agree with there being all kinds of behind the scenes issues, we all know that, and other points N Da No makes there are a couple that don't stand up much. There is only one way to devalue an OHL franchise. That is to leave it devoid of talented players AND draft picks. There is still a decent sized group of talented players on the roster and a decent amount of draft picks. How much talent was on the roster Rolf purchased from Plymouth? Ned? Wesley? Connor Chatham? Peters? Bitten? Caamano? About the same or less than they have now. How did their draft pick inventory look? A lot less than they have now. It's been widely accepted that Rolf paid $8 mil for the Whalers. Sudbury, who was in about the same shape as Flint is now recently sold for what was reported to be $12 mil I believe. The franchise has been devalued to a degree if you plan on keeping it in Flint. Not if you plan on buying it and moving it. N Da No keeps mentioning interested parties looking to buy and relocate the franchise. I don't find that too hard to believe but keeps mentioning Youngstown and Johnstown. Youngstown which has had on ice success with a team in the USHL, a league just slightly less talented than the OHL and averages right around 900-1000 a night. I'm sure David Branch is just dying to jump into that market. I'm sure Youngstown is really looking forward to the increased cost of an OHL franchise. Johnstown might be a little more realistic, but there's still some questions regarding the arena's feasibility. Not to mention they usually average around 2000-2500 a night and the last time they touched 3,000 was in 94-95. Only a quarter century ago. I doubt that one too but it's at least possible. If you're thinking Brantford or Chatham, go look into it. They're years away if at all. Do I think the Firebirds will be here next year? Maybe. Maybe not. The issue isn't Flint. Or the fans. It's not like Saginaw, Erie, Sarnia, the Soo or other cities are light years better locations than Flint. They just have better owners, management and staff. If Erie and the Soo can get kids to report and be happy, then so can Flint under the right owner. Unfortunately, that's where I agree and think things look bleak on that front. I don't see ANYone on here who doesn't know, agree and understand there are numerous issues going on behind the scenes. We just don't post all the info we know and hear on here.
LDN
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Evangelista? Well he just is a bit on the small side and we have so much depth that he will get only a few minutes per game when he comes in...
LDN
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Stranges is better...he actually produces...Evangelista hasnt had a point yet....idk he doesnt have that wow factor sadly
Kingston may have just thrown their hat into the ring for the 1st overall pick in 2019. Robertson and Paquette to Niagara. For 17yo RW Ian Martin, 17yo stud D Billy Constantinou, 4 2nd round picks, 3 3rd round picks, a 5th, a 7th, an 11th and a 13th. That's the cost of elite talent in the OHL nowadays and extra added elite talent is needed to seriously compete for an OHL title. That's why I think Flint's draft pick cupboard is solid, but not over the top. The standard has just been set if you're looking at Dellandrea and Gordeev although I do think they'd go a bit cheaper. Especially Gordeev continues his play over the last three. One assist and minus 9.
With all that has gone on with Flint Hockey the last few years think i am done as a season ticket holder. No matter if the team is sold and stays or ECHL comes in. Not saying wont go to any games. Just done with season tickets. If something happens that looks well run after a couple years then might consider it again.
I attended my first game a couple weeks ago. I found the arena to be much nicer than I expected and the services and staff very professional. I even observed who I believe to be Rolf Nilsen greeting and thanking fans at the game. Is there any appreciation for what Mr. Nilsen has done for Flint or do the negatives outweigh it all?
The ECHL team in KZOO has survived with the league change. Really the majority of the OHL players just drop off into that league after their OA year. KZOO competes with Western Michigan who draws 2,500-3,500 per game and KZOO still draws well. The ECHL is a great fit for Flint and is more of a throwback league to the success of the generals back in the day
Maninboat, The jury is out on Rolf. If he continues on after his kid is gone and turns this team around then I would have to tip my hat to him
He seems like a nice guy, frequently wandering around the arena talking to people. He basically bought the team so his son would have somewhere to play and made some high drama poor decisions in the early days, leading to his being banned from control for I think it was 5 years. This is his kids last year of eligibility, so money is on him being done after this year. He did put quite a bit of money into the Arena and its in the best shape its ever been. Time will tell, but not overly confident that we'll have a team next year!
Not awful, as I imagine the one I’m looking at may be on the lower end, thank you!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Rolf owns the Dort. Who's to say an ECHL team wants to move in, and Rolf allows it if they'll give Hakon a spot...
While the Arena in Flint isn't bad, the others I've been to (Saginaw, Sarnia, Windsor, London, Niagara) are all much nicer. Something about the Dort just seems really outdated and could likely be fixed with some minor renovations.
I feel like if the OHL forced Rolf to sell the team, they couldn't make him sell the arena. If he's forced to sell but ultimately doesn't want to, he could hold onto the arena which would further complicate things but may keep the Firebirds in Flint a couple additional years. I'm not super familiar with open rinks in Ontario, but I don't know of anything of a similar size between Detroit and Saginaw, meaning if the team moves they're likely headed out of state.
Caamano, Bitten, Moore (All 3 OHL Champs with HAM) Dunda (A with Wolves), DiCarlo, Ned, Wesley, Peters, Henderson, Sills, Chatham, Vanderweil all had some OHL Value IMO. Flint was able to shop most of them off and receive compensation for them, but I believe could have got more if it wasn't for the team walking out. That forced guys like Bitten to have decreased value as a trade was demanded. While the market is different these days, if the rumored 8 2nd's for DiPietro are true, it's hard to believe Ned & Peters combined (2 NHL Picks at the time), only pulled in 3 2nd's, 2 3rd's and a 4th year (career 3.77 gaa, under .900 save%) tender. The team when moved wasn't ready to win the OHL Championship, but definitely has had the pieces to have a 34 win season in the first 4 years.
Also the Velluci's Mistele trade before the team moved got them Oshawa's 3rd in 19' and Oshawa's 2nd in 20'. They weren't ready to win, but they weren't set up for this lack of success. I really hope things turn around, but it's not looking good for the Birds :/
While the Arena in Flint isn't bad, the others I've been to (Saginaw, Sarnia, Windsor, London, Niagara) are all much nicer. Something about the Dort just seems really outdated and could likely be fixed with some minor renovations.
I feel like if the OHL forced Rolf to sell the team, they couldn't make him sell the arena. If he's forced to sell but ultimately doesn't want to, he could hold onto the arena which would further complicate things but may keep the Firebirds in Flint a couple additional years. I'm not super familiar with open rinks in Ontario, but I don't know of anything of a similar size between Detroit and Saginaw, meaning if the team moves they're likely headed out of state.
Caamano, Bitten, Moore (All 3 OHL Champs with HAM) Dunda (A with Wolves), DiCarlo, Ned, Wesley, Peters, Henderson, Sills, Chatham, Vanderweil all had some OHL Value IMO. Flint was able to shop most of them off and receive compensation for them, but I believe could have got more if it wasn't for the team walking out. That forced guys like Bitten to have decreased value as a trade was demanded. While the market is different these days, if the rumored 8 2nd's for DiPietro are true, it's hard to believe Ned & Peters combined (2 NHL Picks at the time), only pulled in 3 2nd's, 2 3rd's and a 4th year (career 3.77 gaa, under .900 save%) tender. The team when moved wasn't ready to win the OHL Championship, but definitely has had the pieces to have a 34 win season in the first 4 years.
Also the Velluci's Mistele trade before the team moved got them Oshawa's 3rd in 19' and Oshawa's 2nd in 20'. They weren't ready to win, but they weren't set up for this lack of success. I really hope things turn around, but it's not looking good for the Birds :/
TcNorth
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DetSpitsFan, Flint’s Dort Center is plenty good enough for OHL play. The owner just put in nearly $7 Million to upgrade and has some Of the OHL’s finest locker rooms, site lines, media press boxes, and unlike some OHL arena’s, has a regulation NHL ice surface in Length/Width.. Before Windsor put in your pricey new arena, you played in a dump for many many years. Granted the Dort doesn’t compare with so many of the newer arnena’s in the “O” it is just fine. Remember too, Windsor, Sarnia, and London are much newer arena’s.
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nelli27
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I can answer that question. London has a lot of depth up front, and so Hunter has the luxury of being rather selective as to who's in the lineup on any given night. It just so happens that Hunter's tendency is to go with his vets unless they are not doing anything (e.g. Popov) and then they'll be scratched.
On occasion, rookies will come in, and instantly become regulars in the lineup, e.g. Domi and Stranges come to mind immediately--there have been others.
But, if there are rookies who do not get into the lineup often, it's not because they are not skilled, it's just that they will have to wait their turn--that's simply part of Hunter's coaching philosophy--all things being equal, it's vets OVER rookies. Mark my words, Evangelista and Panwar (both rookies) will go on to have stellar OHL careers. They've both looked good in their limited action. Evangelista a playmaker, very good hockey sense; Panwar more physically mature, a smooth skater, intelligent.
The only player on the Knights who had an attitude problem was Rowe. As for DuHart and Stranges--they're fitting in well, and show NO signs of attitude, arrogance, or cockiness on the ice. Good kids who don't chirp opponents or grand stand. I think accusations to the contrary are unfair and would be best left unspoken.
It looks like the plan is for London to make a run this season, and that typically means that the young kids will be watching the games more than playing them. As a rookie, Bouchard watched from the pressbox at times, especially in the playoffs--he turned out ok.
TcNorth
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Although I too would prefer to see the OHL stay and grow in Flint, I wouldn’t give up hockey just because the ECHL might come to town. Maybe that’s just me. The vast majority of OHL players never make it to the ECHL or the SPHL, let alone the NHL. Same with ECHL players. The question to some may be do we continue on this path with Rolf as owner, players not wanting to play in Flint, NHL teams not wanting their players to play in Flint, losing season after losing season, top draft picks by Flint who want out after 1 or 2 years, or a “AA” minor pro league with an NHL affiliate with several of their prospects assigned to Flint from the big club. The ECHL has some of their own concerns; some NHL teams change their affiliates every couple years (would the team that may want to be in Flint, for only a year or two, then Flint not be able to find another NHL affiliate, and have to play and perhaps suffer as an independent). Plus there is much more cost involved in the ECHL. However, you would think the NHL affiliate would pay a portion of costs. For me either would work and I would never give up on Flint hockey. Now if a new OHL owner keeps the team in Flint, hands down I would absolutely want the OHL in Flint over the ECHL.
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I could see the ECHL being quite successful in Flint if there was a new owner, I'm just not interested personally. I rarely went to those Bulldogs/Generals version 2 games. Not to dismiss those guy's ability, but that was really low level pro hockey. The ECHL is much better but still... In 4 years of the OHL I've watched Matthew Tkachuk, Mitch Marner, Christian Dvorak, Alex DeBrincat, Travis Konecny, Jacob Chychrun, Victor Mete, Mikhail Sergachev, Christian Fischer, Andrei Svechnikov, and numerous others who will be NHL stars in the very near future. How many NHL 1st rounders have come through the DFCU in just 4 years? I just listed more NHL stars off the top of my head from 4 years of play than the ECHL has produced in its entire history. I like the style of play better in the E but if I'm paying $15-$20 a night or $1,000+ for a pair of season tickets, I wanna see some kids on their way to NHL stardom, not AHL mediocrity.
TcNorth
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Although I too would prefer to see the OHL stay and grow in Flint, I wouldn’t give up hockey just because the ECHL might come to town. Maybe that’s just me. The vast majority of OHL players never make it to the ECHL or the SPHL, let alone the NHL. Same with ECHL players. The question to some may be do we continue on this path with Rolf as owner, players not wanting to play in Flint, NHL teams not wanting their players to play in Flint, losing season after losing season, top draft picks by Flint who want out after 1 or 2 years, or a “AA” minor pro league with an NHL affiliate with several of their prospects assigned to Flint from the big club. The ECHL has some of their own concerns; some NHL teams change their affiliates every couple years (would the team that may want to be in Flint, for only a year or two, then Flint not be able to find another NHL affiliate, and have to play and perhaps suffer as an independent). Plus their are much more cost involved in the ECHL. However, you would think the NHL affiliate would pay a
Yeah, ECHL is quality enough that I'd hit a few games a year and keep track of how the team is doing but I like watching kids develop. I like the opportunity to be able to watch and say "yeah, I saw Connor McDavid or Matty Tkachuk or Mikhail Sergachev play in my hometown for 1-2-3 years" I like following and knowing who the top kids are in the upcoming NHL draft. Between Flint, the NTDP in Plymouth, Michigan and Michigan State I can see a huge percentage of upcoming NHL talent close to home, for cheap, in I guess you could say, "a more intimate setting". Like you mentioned, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves though. The O is still here and hopefully it will remain. The only thing keeping the team from being successful and staying in this league is quality ownership. I highly...HIGHLY doubt the ECHL allows Rolf to purchase at team right now. Maybe if he rebuilds his rep over a few years. Hakon is less prepared to play in the ECHL than he was to play in the O 4 years ago. He could cut it the FHL though and Rolf wouldn't have to buy a franchise to get him on a roster. I still don't see a viable location for the team to move to right now. There are multiple threads on expansion and relocation here on HFBoards. All of them have flaws. Nearly all of them have major flaws that prevent them from being realistic. People love to throw out names of cities like that's enough but 95% of them are just unrealistic pipe dreams.
The "nicest" seats in terms of price at the Dort are folding chairs. The entrance of the arena looks straight out of a 1970s airport terminal and have been to multiple games where there were bathroom stalls missing doors. They may have put that 7 million into the locker rooms and press box. But they could do alot more in was to help fan experiance. Which is critical with a meddling team. The Dort is by fair my least favorite arena to go to as an OHL traveling fan.
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