Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Hank Plank]

Are you trolling me? Someone linked me to a search engine as evidence that post-sex consent videos are now commonplace.

First 10 results clearly showed it is not fringe for people to get consent on video.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I'm genuinely curious how to quantify something that wasn't reported.

Underreported to police doesn’t mean unreported in other avenues. Plenty of research out there if you’re inclined to find it.

 

[hfman]

Name the five that are going to be charged, so the rest of the team can at least know they're finally in the clear.

It says the five players have already been told to surrender to police. So if a player hasn't been contacted by police, they already know they're in the clear, no?

Also, why aren't the police just arresting them already. How does it work.. the police call their individual cell phones and tell them to come down to the station so we can arrest you? I thought the cops just go to their door and take them out in cuffs? Especially for such a serious crime.

And then no names. Someone mentioned that a publicity ban can sometimes happen so what if that's the case here. If there's no names, then why is this being put out there already and even before any arrests are made

 

[inthewings]

First 10 results clearly showed it is not fringe for people to get consent on video.

The first 10 results:

1. A Reddit thread linking to an article from 2018 from bodyandsoul.com. There are no data and it discusses two unnamed women being asked for video consent and both women seemed surprised/put off by it.

2. An audio clip from 2018 that talks about whether this is the answer to MeToo

3. Another Reddit thread from 2018 (men's rights subreddit). This links to an article that seems to just be the same article from the first reddit thread.

4. A 2018 article on faithwire that, again, just talks about the same article from the original Reddit thread.

5. An unrelated CTV article (Bad Bing!)

6. An unrelated Reddit ad (Bad Bing again!)

7. Another 2018 article covering THE SAME 2018 ARTICLE

8/9/10 are all completely unrelated articles about the legalities of secretly filming sex.

Summary: one article was written in 2018 that mentioned two unidentified women who were apparently asked to record a consent video. A couple sites covered it and Men's rights reddit seemed happy about it. This is the evidence. Both of you should be embarrassed. I should be (am) embarrassed for wasting time on this.

 

[93LEAFS]

It says the five players have already been told to surrender to police. So if a player hasn't been contacted by police, they already know they're in the clear, no?

Also, why aren't the police just arresting them already. How does it work.. the police call their individual cell phones and tell them to come down to the station so we can arrest you? I thought the cops just go to their door and take them out in cuffs? Especially for such a serious crime.

And then no names. Someone mentioned that a publicity ban can sometimes happen so what if that's the case here. If there's no names, then why is this being put out there already and even before any arrests are made

Negotiated surrenders are quite common if the accused isn't viewed as a massive public safety threat. It allows for the defender to get their affairs in order, and then quickly have a bail hearing. It's usually negotiated through the accused's lawyer. The police will bust through your door, but that generally applies to one of two scenarios. Firstly, they believe you are an imminent threat to public safety. Secondly, they believe that the surprise is necessary for evidence gathering, so it won't be pre-eminently destroyed. Hell, people convicted of crimes and sentenced to jail occasionally have a buffer period to get their affairs in order before they have to report to serve their sentence, it's even the premise of the film 25th Hour.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

It says the five players have already been told to surrender to police. So if a player hasn't been contacted by police, they already know they're in the clear, no?

Also, why aren't the police just arresting them already. How does it work.. the police call their individual cell phones and tell them to come down to the station so we can arrest you? I thought the cops just go to their door and take them out in cuffs? Especially for such a serious crime.

And then no names. Someone mentioned that a publicity ban can sometimes happen so what if that's the case here. If there's no names, then why is this being put out there already and even before any arrests are made

They're asking them to surrender, presumably because they're not local, and potentially in other countries. The London PD can't just go onto foreign soil and arrest people. They'd have to go through extradition processes. This is much cleaner and less burdensome on taxpayers.

 

[tyhee]

It says the five players have already been told to surrender to police. So if a player hasn't been contacted by police, they already know they're in the clear, no?

Also, why aren't the police just arresting them already. How does it work.. the police call their individual cell phones and tell them to come down to the station so we can arrest you? I thought the cops just go to their door and take them out in cuffs? Especially for such a serious crime.

And then no names. Someone mentioned that a publicity ban can sometimes happen so what if that's the case here. If there's no names, then why is this being put out there already and even before any arrests are made

1. As you say, from the police information, if a player hasn't been contacted by the police he knows he isn't one of the 5 presently being charged. That doesn't necessarily mean the player is in the clear.

2. The police in Canada have no authority to arrest players in the United States. Even players out of province can be complicated. Rather than apply for extradition orders, if the players will come in to get the initial charging paperwork done and be bound over on a recognizance to appear it saves a lot of time and trouble. In this case players may be willing to come in when they are able to as it is unlikely they'll be able to resume their hockey careers in North America until they've dealt with the charges.

3. It would be hard to imagine there being a publicity ban on the names of the players involved. Particularly with us not knowing if the charging document (called an Information, a somewhat misleading name) has been sworn there's no point in speculating why the police aren't releasing the names of the players.

 

[hfman]

Negotiated surrenders are quite common if the accused isn't viewed as a massive public safety threat. It allows for the defender to get their affairs in order, and then quickly have a bail hearing. It's usually negotiated through the accused's lawyer. The police will bust through your door, but that generally applies to one of two scenarios. Firstly, they believe you are an imminent threat to public safety. Secondly, they believe that the surprise is necessary for evidence gathering, so it won't be pre-eminently destroyed. Hell, people convicted of crimes and sentenced to jail occasionally have a buffer period to get their affairs in order before they have to report to serve their sentence, it's even the premise of the film 25th Hour.

Yeah I know it isn't the first time, we've heard it happening before where the accused are asked to turn themselves in. But in order for the accused lawyer to be contacted, don't the police first have to find out who their lawyer is?

So it's kind of like, the cops call the accused, ask them to surrender, then I guess the accused says 'talk to my lawyer' kind of deal... kind of a roundabout way of doing things, almost as if the police are giving the benefit of the doubt to the accused and telling them don't worry, we'll give you some extra time here... which is odd considering these are such serious crimes

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Underreported to police doesn’t mean unreported in other avenues. Plenty of research out there if you’re inclined to find it.

Thanks, what's the definition of false accusal? The verdict of the accused was not guilty?

 

[aight]

You're forgetting the hot pepper exception. Pineapple can go on pizzas as long as paired with some form of hot pepper, especially deep dish.

This is interesting and I have a lot of time for it despite hating pineapple so much on pizza that I'll order a slice of Hawaiian and pick the vile shit off of it. Ham shouldn't be tied at the hip with pineapple as a topping. #freeham

 

[mr figgles]

The first 10 results:

1. A Reddit thread linking to an article from 2018 from bodyandsoul.com. There are no data and it discusses two unnamed women being asked for video consent and both women seemed surprised/put off by it.

2. An audio clip from 2018 that talks about whether this is the answer to MeToo

3. Another Reddit thread from 2018 (men's rights subreddit). This links to an article that seems to just be the same article from the first reddit thread.

4. A 2018 article on faithwire that, again, just talks about the same article from the original Reddit thread.

5. An unrelated CTV article (Bad Bing!)

6. An unrelated Reddit ad (Bad Bing again!)

7. Another 2018 article covering THE SAME 2018 ARTICLE

8/9/10 are all completely unrelated articles about the legalities of secretly filming sex.

Summary: one article was written in 2018 that mentioned two unidentified women who were apparently asked to record a consent video. A couple sites covered it and Men's rights reddit seemed happy about it. This is the evidence. Both of you should be embarrassed. I should be (am) embarrassed for wasting time on this.

Lol welcome to analyzing “facts” and “evidence”

It’s always a waste of time

 

[jiitu]

This tracks cause Rick Westhead quoted a lawyer saying that it's usually 1-2 weeks where non violent suspects have to surrender with cases like this



I think regardless in today's social media age that if these guys just went missing from their teams + they were known to be on that 2018 team it would raise eyebrows, even in the older days people would connect the dots.

Well, thisnis part of the point. Do theybreally need to go away from their team at least for long? I think its possible to interrogate within few days and they additionally some evenings if needed.

And without publicity, there are not many dots to draw if no one knows the original blames. "Injury" or so if necessary.

Just all of this should come public once there is conviction. Im not sayong anything for this specific case, but there are enougj public people accused and then released and clearly shown to be fully innocent. But yet, career lost or at least badly hit.

Accusing publicly should be a crime before court decision.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Well, thisnis part of the point. Do theybreally need to go away from their team at least for long? I think its possible to interrogate within few days and they additionally some evenings if needed.

And without publicity, there are not many dots to draw if no one knows the original blames. "Injury" or so if necessary.

Just all of this should come public once there is conviction. Im not sayong anything for this specific case, but there are enougj public people accused and then released and clearly shown to be fully innocent. But yet, career lost or at least badly hit.

Accusing publicly should be a crime before court decision.

You should learn how this stuff works. Like, investigations, charges, trials. All of it.

 

[ozzie]

I remember a lot of things happening in Youngblood, but certainly nothing like these young player's behaviour and incidents.

On a serious note, is this a result of having access to unlimited internet content including adult material? This really seems like a year 2000+ thing happening.

 

[guyzeur]

I'd legit be curious at what point a man says no.lol

most beautiful consenting girl in the world me and 1 friend.. 2 friends... 3 friends... 4 friends

These guys got to 8.lol

Obivously, situation reversed... me and 1 girl, 2 girls, 3 girls...

Totally different numbers.lol

you said man but those were inhibited kids
At what age human males become wise is a very good question

 

[guyzeur]

How often does it happen in college sports but we never hear about it?

 

[Chainshot]

This is interesting and I have a lot of time for it despite hating pineapple so much on pizza that I'll order a slice of Hawaiian and pick the vile shit off of it. Ham shouldn't be tied at the hip with pineapple as a topping. #freeham

Spent time living in Costa Rica - ham is a regular part of pizza there to the point they don't even mention that it's part of it. Kind of a shock to discover about half a pound of the stuff beneath the cheese on what was supposed to be just a cheese pizza. Also funny when I would order "no Jamon" and the pizzeria would act like I was off my rocker.

 

[Jack Straw]

The line is fine on what they can and cannot do...some of the biggest cases have been solved by the FBI lying...the 2002 DC sniper case more or less was...they kept stating in media they were looking for a white van but they were really looking for a blue car...the vast majority of the semi truck industry network nearby was notified of this and they informed drivers in Maryland and Virginia to watch for the car...sure enough that is exactly how they got caught. It was a ploy to make the snipers believe the authorities were looking for the wrong type automobile hoping they'd be careless

Wait, really? I was living in DC then and I got nervous every time I saw a white box truck.

 

[Jack Straw]

That’s not a leopard, that’s a jaguar! Jeez, I wish people would make an effort to make sure the information they post here is accurate!

 

[Bocephus86]

Negotiated surrenders are quite common if the accused isn't viewed as a massive public safety threat. It allows for the defender to get their affairs in order, and then quickly have a bail hearing. It's usually negotiated through the accused's lawyer. The police will bust through your door, but that generally applies to one of two scenarios. Firstly, they believe you are an imminent threat to public safety. Secondly, they believe that the surprise is necessary for evidence gathering, so it won't be pre-eminently destroyed. Hell, people convicted of crimes and sentenced to jail occasionally have a buffer period to get their affairs in order before they have to report to serve their sentence, it's even the premise of the film 25th Hour.

Are you telling me that all those Law and Order episodes I've watched where Briscoe and Green would bust into someone's office building and haul the perp away while dropping a sweet quip was just TV playing it up for dramatic effect?!? Say it aint so!

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

If they find proof that she was ok with all these players at the hotel I don’t know how you get anywhere with this case lol. Like that should be pretty easy to see once they accessed all the players texts along with hers. So how do you sell this is assault if you agreed to a gangbang lol.

Come to hfboards to talk hockey - get this. (Not a comment about you at all schennanigans - just the fact this topic even exists, sigh)

Looking forward to the new 50 in 50 threads (minutes, not games).

Thanks team Canada!

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Are you telling me that all those Law and Order episodes I've watched where Briscoe and Green would bust into someone's office building and haul the perp away while dropping a sweet quip was just TV playing it up for dramatic effect?!? Say it aint so!

Almost never for rape or assault does this occur. Proactively arresting someone suspected of a violent crime is the rule - negotiated surrender the exception.

BUT, almost never is a case closed, then reopened 4 years later and charges issued.

The entire scenario is an outlier.

 

[Leonardo87]

Spent time living in Costa Rica - ham is a regular part of pizza there to the point they don't even mention that it's part of it. Kind of a shock to discover about half a pound of the stuff beneath the cheese on what was supposed to be just a cheese pizza. Also funny when I would order "no Jamon" and the pizzeria would act like I was off my rocker.

My ideal pizza, is wood-burning, Nice crunchy crust, with fresh mozzarella, and Just a little sauce. I also like a good White pizza with like 4 cheeses, garlic, caramelized onions and grilled chicken on it.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Uh no, it's called following the law.

You a goody two shoes or something?

 

[izlez]

If they find proof that she was ok with all these players at the hotel I don’t know how you get anywhere with this case lol. Like that should be pretty easy to see once they accessed all the players texts along with hers. So how do you sell this is assault if you agreed to a gangbang lol.

Correct.

You are describing a trial. Each side presents evidence. A jury or judge looks at that evidence to determine the events that happened and decides guilty or not guilty.